Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

cj7hawk
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Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby cj7hawk » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:46 am

It just clips on, and you could retrofit a bicycle in seconds ( batteries are in the wheel too ) -

But I think it may need a little more in the way of anti-rotation surface -



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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby Kalgrm » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:54 am

Yep, that's pretty cool "thinking outside the box" there. Well done to him and the guys he's working with.

And well done to the Tron SciFi team too. :)

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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:21 am

Yeah, clever. How is it an improvement on other existing options?

A lot of weight there. The wheel will need extra rigidity. Which means extra weight as well.

I haven't listened to the video yet. Maybe there will be some answers there.
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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby cj7hawk » Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:26 pm

It's a good idea because all you have to do is clip it onto the forks of your bike, and run the throttle to your handlebars. Everything else - even lights - can be fitted to the wheel.

As a result, you can take a perfectly normal bicycle, unclip the front wheel, clip in the new front wheel ( all in less than a minute ) and go riding on electric, then remove the wheel, go back to a normal pushbike, and again, all in less than a minute. Also, you don't modify the frame or forces on the frame, so you can, theoretically, modify any bicycle without affecting it.

No mounting-the-battery issues. No cabling issues. No direct-drive issues. No change the pedals or chain issues. No install/uninstall issues.

I thought it was a bit over-rated as well, then when I considered it, it actually seemed like a good idea - A really clever idea for people who want a decent bicycle, but would like the capability to ride electric sometimes.

I do worry about the rigidity of the frame going up a kerb, but I assume it's tough enough. Also, it's clear they never designed the solution around some problems ( eg, water ) but got lucky anyway.

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David

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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby Calvin27 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:41 am

cj7hawk wrote:It's a good idea because all you have to do is clip it onto the forks of your bike, and run the throttle to your handlebars. Everything else - even lights - can be fitted to the wheel.


I was thinkin the same thing. And then it dawned, I have disc brakes on all my bikes...
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AlexHuggs
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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby AlexHuggs » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:33 am

Calvin27 wrote:
cj7hawk wrote:It's a good idea because all you have to do is clip it onto the forks of your bike, and run the throttle to your handlebars. Everything else - even lights - can be fitted to the wheel.


I was thinkin the same thing. And then it dawned, I have disc brakes on all my bikes...


Can't be that hard to engineer something. I think this is a brilliant idea. I already want one!

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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby human909 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:07 pm

No. Really. This is a terrible idea.

'Hubless' wheels aren't a new concept. They are in fact a regular sight in vapourware products for cars/bicycles that come from the fantasy of industrial designers rather than engineers. However there are very good engineering reasons why they aren't used.

AlexHuggs wrote:Can't be that hard to engineer something. I think this is a brilliant idea. I already want one!

Huh? You have a non rotating center hub. So yes 'disc' brakes can't be simply 'engineered' onto it. Oh unless you want to use that big rotating disc that is already there, that we know as the rim. Which is exactly what has been done.

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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby yugyug » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:23 pm

human909 wrote:. However there are very good engineering reasons why they aren't used.


What are they? I guess it has something to with rotating mass and efficiency...

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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby human909 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:44 am

yugyug wrote:What are they? I guess it has something to with rotating mass and efficiency...

Efficiency and complication.

The bearings having increased in surface area and bearing speed. In this case we now have 3 sets of bearings spinning at approximately 6x the speed of a normal bicycle. You also have 3 additional rubberised rolling surfaces for additional rolling resistance and additional wear.

The gains they speak of can all be accomplished without making a hubless wheel. In fact there are numerous other startups messing around with in wheel motors and batteries. Though they use regular spoked wheels.

That said they've engineered away many of the impossibilities of paperware hubless designs. But they really haven't created any advantages.

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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby cj7hawk » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:37 pm

human909 wrote:That said they've engineered away many of the impossibilities of paperware hubless designs. But they really haven't created any advantages.


I think you may be looking at this in a different way - Remove the engineering, and what you're left with is a retrofittable solution that mounts to a any bike without modifying the bike in any way. In this way, the product is somewhat unique.

Hubless rims and such are just one way to do it, but in this case it works OK.

Anyway, there aren't any real engineering issues with the design - It's probably more one of cost. Spoked rims are a very cheap solution - They aren't the best, but the performance is satisfactory for the cost.

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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby outnabike » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:39 pm

I knew I had seen it somewhere before...... :) I reckon your right Human99, not to many about.


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Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby yugyug » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:25 pm

outnabike wrote:I knew I had seen it somewhere before...... :) I reckon your right Human99, not to many about.


I reckon South Park had the last word on that with "It"

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Re: Interesting wheel concept - Quite a good idea.

Postby human909 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:13 pm

cj7hawk wrote:I think you may be looking at this in a different way - Remove the engineering, and what you're left with is a retrofittable solution that mounts to a any bike without modifying the bike in any way. In this way, the product is somewhat unique.

Which can be done without making a complicated hub less rim design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S10GMfG2NMY

cj7hawk wrote:Hubless rims and such are just one way to do it, but in this case it works OK.

It works but not nearly as efficiently as other solutions. It would be heavier, more costly, less efficient and less reliable than other solutions. AKA it is a poor design.

cj7hawk wrote:Spoked rims are a very cheap solution - They aren't the best, but the performance is satisfactory for the cost.

???
Spokes have little to do with the discussion. The key problem here is "hubless" wheels. Fundamentally a poor engineered design that pretty much only exists because it looks cool in movies like Tron. Though now that you bring it up bicycle evolution has shown spokes to be pretty much the best solution for the needs of bicycle wheels.


outnabike wrote:I knew I had seen it somewhere before...... :) I reckon your right Human99, not to many about.

Here is another one from the 80s... Remember that show "Beyond 2000"??? :lol:


Hubless wheels are a novelty. But there are very good reasons why they have never made it beyond the novelty stage.

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