Advice for hub motor.

Calvin27
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Advice for hub motor.

Postby Calvin27 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:08 pm

Hi folks, after riding a mates ebike I'm hooked. I'm a pretty health rider and can do ok distances, but we have this crazy idea of doing super long range rides (well relative to us anyway) of about 200km+ in a day without completely shattering ourselves.

So I am hoping to get some advice on what to buy. I've done the preliminary work and don't want a mid drive or front hub motor.

- Donor bike is a specialized sectuer - 10 speed 105, disc and 135mm spacing. Tyres will be either 35 cross or 28c slicks.
- Rear hub motor please.
- Happy to take suggestions on whether I should buy a kit, wheel, or hub. Should be ok with electronics either way.
- Preferably small form factor (I dislike those ebay ones with siwrly designs!)
- Price - cheap. About $500 for everything bar batteries. $400 minus batteries and wheel lacing (rims etc.). Can be swayed if there is a compelling case.

Any suggestions?
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Cycleops70
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby Cycleops70 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:35 pm

I've seen Solarbike do some rear wheel setups.
Not sure you'll get a battery to last that sort of distance though.

Calvin27
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby Calvin27 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:32 pm

Cycleops70 wrote:I've seen Solarbike do some rear wheel setups.
Not sure you'll get a battery to last that sort of distance though.


I'll be going custom battery configuration and won't be using the full power. This is basically range extending rather than fully relying on it. I also will like to have a throttle but can live without one. Also no idea about how the configurations work with drop shifters - or if at all.
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softy
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby softy » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:51 pm

I don't know that bike, but most rear hub motors are designed for 135mm, which is the MTB standard. Road bikes are 130mm. So you will need to check if it fits.

Calvin27
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:17 am

100% sure it's 135mm.
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eldavo
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby eldavo » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:33 am

Alternative scenario if you were a medium, pre-Easter cash off offer this was going for a bit under the $1k mark. My understanding BH use a clutched rear hub motor that's reviewed well. The battery setup looks to allow easy custom auxiliary plug-in.
http://www.pushys.com.au/bh-eg566-easyg ... edium.html
With the clear frame you could have aero frame bag luggage with some TT bars ergonomics variety for the headwinds/crosswinds/long day.
Neat tidy wiring on a factory e-bike I like the finish and would be happy to drop a flatbar donor to try it, and as a separate factory bike, if you didn't like it or the long ride idea (e.g. offroad less distance may appeal), could sell it on as complete bike near new with 200km use.

Calvin27
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:47 am

Sorry, don't really have space for another bike.
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eldavo
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby eldavo » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:00 pm

No need to apologise, it's your party ;)

koshari
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby koshari » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:24 pm

- Donor bike is a specialized sectuer - 10 speed 105, disc and 135mm spacing. Tyres will be either 35 cross or 28c slicks.

iam sure it will make a very nice platform.

- Rear hub motor please.

and may i suggest a geared version,lighter and better torque on hills, you will also need a cassette type. The spacing says 137mm but you can simply place one of the indexed washers on the outside of the dropout. i went a direct drive and there are a few caveats going that way, definitely heavier.

- Happy to take suggestions on whether I should buy a kit, wheel, or hub. Should be ok with electronics either way.

i had a better outcome building up a ride for my wife recently piecewise.

- Preferably small form factor (I dislike those ebay ones with siwrly designs!)

most of the ones with swirly decors and the like are direct drive, the geared ones are hidden behind the cassette moreso.

- Price - cheap. About $500 for everything bar batteries. $400 minus batteries and wheel lacing (rims etc.). Can be swayed if there is a compelling case.

i think you will want one of these as the base of the wheel,
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-sell ... 97329.html
or
http://my.aliexpress.com/wishlist/wish_ ... Id=1906905
the trick will be to get it laced into a rim for the balance of your budget.

and a cheap 300w controller, these ones fit in a small under seat bag,
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/36V-48V-350W ... SwFqJWhOWR

then you will likely need a thumb style throttle to work with brifters/drop bars.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7-8-Throttle ... SwL7VWjeAr

what are you intending for your battery setup and how many Ah,s??
The wife has a 36v drinktube pack with 10Ah samsung cells however the "dolphin" shape packs are prolly a little nicer austhetically, the most she has done on it so far is 20km and it was just over half full on return which would make it about 40km range, the geared motor may increase this range a bit, she really only uses it to assist on hills rather than got further as she copes on the flats, slight grades just fine. i think the throttle control is better, possibly the peddelec ones are better in the more expensive or mid drives where the torque control is better but the hall effect ones dont cut it.

the other thing about lithium batteries is shipping can be a problem due the perceived issue with them exploding and therefore some air carriers wont freight them. i ended up getting a pack from ebay,he threw in an extra controller, was about 360 delivered. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/E-bike-batte ... 1953276905
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Calvin27
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:00 am

Thanks for those links.

HUB:
The trouble is finding a hub that will take 10 speed. A lot of them are only 7 speed and the ones I think will run 10 speed don't tell you that (or require a screw in cassette spline of which I have no idea of compatibility). As for which hub, definately going for a geared hub, not direct drive. Thanks for the tip on the 137mm spacing. I thought this was wierd, but a spacer should be ok to muster up.

CONTROLLER:
Thanks for the link again. I initially wanted a full controller set, with throttle etc. but after looking at how I can make this work for drop bars, I've half given up and now looking for just pedal assist. If I want later I can add a throttle, but pedal assist sensor is priority and this will be the main mode.

BUDGET:
This is flexible. I've set the budget based on what I can get off the shelf for about $1000 odd so it's more of a target than a hard budget.

BATTERIES:
Planning to go hard with batteries. Initially I will be using something sensible about 10Ah and probably bottle mount for day to day commuting. The goal down the line is to at least double this to about 25-30Ah which at half power pedal assist should get me to about 6 hours (I will test range with smaller batteries first. The batteries will be custom built 18650 array in a custom enclosure. My mate has a mould already made for this - before you say it, yes I know carbon is conductive, yes I know it's overkill and yes the first prototype did in fact catch on fire, the second one sparked and the third try is adequately insulated and been running for half a year so I have some confidence in this lol! The alternative plan is to just take my mates array when he decides he needs more range/power.
Fast light bike
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Ebike :)

koshari
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby koshari » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:00 pm

Calvin27 wrote:HUB:
The trouble is finding a hub that will take 10 speed. A lot of them are only 7 speed and the ones I think will run 10 speed don't tell you that (or require a screw in cassette spline of which I have no idea of compatibility). As for which hub, definately going for a geared hub, not direct drive. Thanks for the tip on the 137mm spacing. I thought this was wierd, but a spacer should be ok to muster up.


both the hubs I linked appear to be 8-10 cassettes, however it would pay to check, the chinese descriptions sometimes leave a bit to be desired. you could always go 9of10 (remove the biggest ring and a spacer to fit it on a 7 cassette) and dial out with the limiter the last sprocket as a workaround.

CONTROLLER:
Thanks for the link again. I initially wanted a full controller set, with throttle etc. but after looking at how I can make this work for drop bars, I've half given up and now looking for just pedal assist. If I want later I can add a throttle, but pedal assist sensor is priority and this will be the main mode.

i was suggesting you mount the thumb throttle on the flats of the drops just inside where the tape finishes, of coarse this would mean riding on the flats, cant think of a ready made solution where you could ride in the drops, might be an enterprising solution out there? you may have an issue with the peddelec magnet disc as they are designed to slide over a square taper BB. all the cheap chinese controllers appear to have both peddelec and throttle control but as i said the cheap chinese pedelec is pretty crappy, i doubt you would be content with it in the long run.


BUDGET:
This is flexible. I've set the budget based on what I can get off the shelf for about $1000 odd so it's more of a target than a hard budget.

BATTERIES:
Planning to go hard with batteries. Initially I will be using something sensible about 10Ah and probably bottle mount for day to day commuting. The goal down the line is to at least double this to about 25-30Ah which at half power pedal assist should get me to about 6 hours (I will test range with smaller batteries first. The batteries will be custom built 18650 array in a custom enclosure. My mate has a mould already made for this - before you say it, yes I know carbon is conductive, yes I know it's overkill and yes the first prototype did in fact catch on fire, the second one sparked and the third try is adequately insulated and been running for half a year so I have some confidence in this lol! The alternative plan is to just take my mates array when he decides he needs more range/power.


well most of the investment is in the batteries, so if you get this right you can always play around with controllers, throttles and to a lesser extent hubs later on. carbon may be conductive as you say but the resin its embedded in is an insulator, you will just need to be carefull insulating the battery tabs from adjacent conductors, most packs simply use cardboard and tape. then of coarse you have your BMS to consider however iam sure your all over that after reading of your near misses..

The alternative plan is to just take my mates array when he decides he needs more range/power.

good plan this, i just cant get myself enough 18650s. :-(
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Calvin27
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby Calvin27 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:51 pm

Ok so narrowed it down to bafang cst or Cute q100 CST.

Going for reliability. One weights 4.5kg, the other 2.1kg. I'm assuming heavier is better?
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OldBloke
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby OldBloke » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:03 pm

This forum discussion might help:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads ... rpm.22859/



OB

If I'm wrong blame Tapatalk.

koshari
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Re: Advice for hub motor.

Postby koshari » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:24 pm

Calvin27 wrote:Ok so narrowed it down to bafang cst or Cute q100 CST.

Going for reliability. One weights 4.5kg, the other 2.1kg. I'm assuming heavier is better?

The bafangs are a good choice as replacement planetary gears appear to be redily available.
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