Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

AdelaidePeter
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Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:29 pm

This came up on the traffic light thread, but I thought I'd start a new one since it's well off the original topic. I have a (possibly ghoulish) interest in pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists, so that we can hold them up to show how low the numbers are. So now there are 3 I am aware of since 2006, Australia-wide:

1. 77 year old James Gould, in 2006 (the "Hell Ride") incident. Rider was fined $400 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-08-08/h ... th/2525134 , https://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007 ... 08206.html . Should have been much harsher, IMHO.

2. The other thread mentioned a woman in Parkville, 2013. Can't find any details.

3. 85 year old Norman MacKenzie, in St. Kilda, 2017. I can see from Google that the rider was cleared but can't access the article. Here is what I see on Google: "Cyclist cleared of killing pedestrian in St Kilda crash | Herald Sun .. May 6, 2017 - A CYCLIST involved in a deadly collision in Melbournes southeast, ... at fault when the bicycle struck Norman Mackenzie, 85, as he walked his dog in St Kilda. ... Since the death, Mr McKenzie's family has called for bikes to be ..."

Does anyone have more information on #2, or on any others?

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Tequestra
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby Tequestra » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:51 pm

There is only one other that comes to mind, and it is practically hearsay because I don't remember much after hearing the details over a decade ago.

I am not sure whether passengers in a car could be classed as 'pedestrians' nor whether motorcyclists could be classed as 'cyclists' for the point of this topic, but apparently once upon a time in the USA a car pulled out on a motorcycle and the motorbike t-boned the car and the corpse of the rider flew through the window and collided with a passenger, so they both died.

'Caused' by a cyclist' is also open to argument in some ways. Practically, it seems to me a bit like blaming the piano player if the piano falls out the window of a high-rise building onto a pedestrian.
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AdelaidePeter
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby AdelaidePeter » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:23 pm

Tequestra wrote:There is only one other that comes to mind, and it is practically hearsay because I don't remember much after hearing the details over a decade ago.

I am not sure whether passengers in a car could be classed as 'pedestrians' nor whether motorcyclists could be classed as 'cyclists' for the point of this topic, but apparently once upon a time in the USA a car pulled out on a motorcycle and the motorbike t-boned the car and the corpse of the rider flew through the window and collided with a passenger, so they both died.

'Caused' by a cyclist' is also open to argument in some ways. Practically, it seems to me a bit like blaming the piano player if the piano falls out the window of a high-rise building onto a pedestrian.


Sorry, I meant Australia only.

I was looking for any deaths involving a cyclist hitting a pedestrian, regardless of who's to blame (though I'd also like to know who was to blame in each case). I typed the title "caused by cyclists" rather quickly, and it's a poor choice of words.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby Scott_C » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:40 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:Does anyone have more information on #2, or on any others?


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-06/e ... th/5575242
6 July 2014, 95 year old pedestrian struck and killed by a cyclist on the Midland Line PSP in Bassendean WA. I am not aware of any charges being filed.

The ABS Causes of Death statistics indicates that there have been 14 pedestrian deaths due to collisions with cyclists between 2006 and 2016 (latest data)

Year Deaths
2006 - 4
2007 - 1
2008 - 1
2009 - 2
2010 - 0
2011 - 1
2012 - 0
2013 - 1
2014 - 2
2015 - 2
2016 - 0

In the same time period there have been 1,768 peds killed by light vehicles, 335 peds killed by heavy vehicles, 35 peds killed by motorcycles and 40 peds killed by accidentally bumping into other peds or falls caused by accidentally bumping into other peds (note that this excludes deliberate assaults, these are purely the deaths from accidental ped v ped collisions).

The number of peds killed in collisions with cyclists is lower than deaths due to being struck by lightning (17 deaths in the same period), the stereotypical rare event. It is also lower than the 15 people who were killed by their pyjamas catching fire.

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Tequestra
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby Tequestra » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:42 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:Sorry, I meant Australia only.

I was looking for any deaths involving a cyclist hitting a pedestrian, regardless of who's to blame (though I'd also like to know who was to blame in each case). I typed the title "caused by cyclists" rather quickly, and it's a poor choice of words.

Thanks for your quick reply, Peter. I've never heard of such a tragedy before in Australia. It does tend to defy my understanding of physics with some significance because there is no real difference in mass between a cyclist and a pedestrian. True that F=MA but there must be the occasional 200kg pedestrian who can run at 20km/h over a long enough distance to collide forcefully with another living object.

When I raced motorcross, we used to have a rule about plugging the ends of handlebars. A 10c piece is perfect, because the ends of the rubber grips alone are not strong enough to stop the sharp ends of being quite a hazard to unprotected flesh & bone.
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby Cycleops70 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:17 pm

Scott_C wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote:Does anyone have more information on #2, or on any others?


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-06/e ... th/5575242
6 July 2014, 95 year old pedestrian struck and killed by a cyclist on the Midland Line PSP in Bassendean WA. I am not aware of any charges being filed.


I remember this. I recall reading that the pedestrian stepped backwards into the path of the cyclist. But I don't recall where I read this now.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:22 pm

I am aware of two others in WA. One involved a Indian tourist (?) on a shared path. I believe that incident resulted in a change to the traffic regulations which now mean that cyclists can be charged with "reckless driving" and the other involved an elderly lady stepping out into the path of a cyclist on the road. That might have been in Nedlands but not 100% sure.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:15 am

Aushiker wrote:I am aware of two others in WA. One involved a Indian tourist (?) on a shared path. I believe that incident resulted in a change to the traffic regulations which now mean that cyclists can be charged with "reckless driving" and the other involved an elderly lady stepping out into the path of a cyclist on the road. That might have been in Nedlands but not 100% sure.

Yes, I recalled the one in Nedlands in 2009 and a search found it easily enough. See https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/grandmother-hit-by-cyclist-dies-woman-killed-at-wongan-hills-ng-0542955ce93d0279e39caf0d0e83223d
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:16 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
Aushiker wrote:I am aware of two others in WA. One involved a Indian tourist (?) on a shared path. I believe that incident resulted in a change to the traffic regulations which now mean that cyclists can be charged with "reckless driving" and the other involved an elderly lady stepping out into the path of a cyclist on the road. That might have been in Nedlands but not 100% sure.

Yes, I recalled the one in Nedlands in 2009 and a search found it easily enough. See https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/grandmother-hit-by-cyclist-dies-woman-killed-at-wongan-hills-ng-0542955ce93d0279e39caf0d0e83223d

I don't recall the legal outcome.
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:19 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:
Aushiker wrote:I am aware of two others in WA. One involved a Indian tourist (?) on a shared path. I believe that incident resulted in a change to the traffic regulations which now mean that cyclists can be charged with "reckless driving" and the other involved an elderly lady stepping out into the path of a cyclist on the road. That might have been in Nedlands but not 100% sure.

Yes, I recalled the one in Nedlands in 2009 and a search found it easily enough. See https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/grandmother-hit-by-cyclist-dies-woman-killed-at-wongan-hills-ng-0542955ce93d0279e39caf0d0e83223d

I don't recall the legal outcome. But while looking I found this 2016 ALMOST fatality too. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/crime/like-a-weapon-ng-b88732030z


They do happen but, like so much, we either never register it happening or we forget.
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby Aushiker » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:31 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:
Aushiker wrote:I am aware of two others in WA. One involved a Indian tourist (?) on a shared path. I believe that incident resulted in a change to the traffic regulations which now mean that cyclists can be charged with "reckless driving" and the other involved an elderly lady stepping out into the path of a cyclist on the road. That might have been in Nedlands but not 100% sure.

Yes, I recalled the one in Nedlands in 2009 and a search found it easily enough. See https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/grandmother-hit-by-cyclist-dies-woman-killed-at-wongan-hills-ng-0542955ce93d0279e39caf0d0e83223d

I don't recall the legal outcome.


From what I can remember there was no charges laid.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby RobertL » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:14 am

Tequestra wrote: When I raced motorcross, we used to have a rule about plugging the ends of handlebars. A 10c piece is perfect, because the ends of the rubber grips alone are not strong enough to stop the sharp ends of being quite a hazard to unprotected flesh & bone.


If you race bicycles you need to plug your handlebars too, for the same reason. Most people do anyway, because that's how you retain your bar tape in place, but it is a requirement.
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:20 pm

Aushiker wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Yes, I recalled the one in Nedlands in 2009 and a search found it easily enough. See https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/grandmother-hit-by-cyclist-dies-woman-killed-at-wongan-hills-ng-0542955ce93d0279e39caf0d0e83223d

I don't recall the legal outcome.


From what I can remember there was no charges laid.

that sounds right as I have not been able to find much reference toi the incident at all and zero on anything other than the incident itself. ie No reported action by authorities or courts.

I note over time that there are many here who constantly see a conspiracy by authorities to not act on injurious accident to cyclists. I wouldn't mind if someone can point me to discussion on this forum of the 2009 Nedlands case because I am drawing a blank. I would hope that a lack of followup would be at least as worthy of comment here as it when cyclists are the aggrieved party. Anyone have a link or a thread?
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:29 pm

Is this about pedestrian deaths as a result of a collision with a bike or is there a distinction with deaths where a bike rider is at fault?

‘At fault’ is often the crucial aspect because any death is a tragedy - but in reacting and moving to infrastructure changes and changes to law, the circumstances can’t be overlooked otherwise the reaction or result is skewed an may be unsuitable in prevention.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby AdelaidePeter » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:38 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Is this about pedestrian deaths as a result of a collision with a bike or is there a distinction with deaths where a bike rider is at fault?

‘At fault’ is often the crucial aspect because any death is a tragedy - but in reacting and moving to infrastructure changes and changes to law, the circumstances can’t be overlooked otherwise the reaction or result is skewed an may be unsuitable in prevention.


At least for me, it's primarily about the former - any pedestrian deaths from collision with a bike; though I'm interested in both.

For instance, if bicycles were killing pedestrians in large numbers on shared paths, even if the cyclists weren't at fault, it would mean there was a serious problem with bicycles and pedestrians mixing. (But they're not).

The reply with the ABS stats, comparing it to other freakish deaths, was very enlightening.
Last edited by AdelaidePeter on Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby BobtheBuilder » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:51 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote: Should have been much harsher, IMHO.


Well, we don't know what else the defendant went through, maybe it was a suitable sentence, but in principle, cyclists should be held to the same standards we (wish) MVs are held to. If you're that negligent that your behaviour results in loss of life, you've got a lot to answer for.
The principle of big gives way to small applies to bikes as much as MVs.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 am

BobtheBuilder wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote: Should have been much harsher, IMHO.


Well, we don't know what else the defendant went through, maybe it was a suitable sentence, but in principle, cyclists should be held to the same standards we (wish) MVs are held to. If you're that negligent that your behaviour results in loss of life, you've got a lot to answer for.
The principle of big gives way to small applies to bikes as much as MVs.


I reckon what you need to do is mandate all riders and pedestrians to have registration plates that must be visible at all times. Then you know people will do the right thing, because rego-plates always ensure that car drivers never run red lights, break the speed limits nor pass bike riders too closely.

I don't know about you two, but I tend to try and avoid hitting pedestrians or riding closely to them. most either riders I know also do the same. For me, I will ride on the road rather than using a crowded shared path in pedestrian heavy areas. Too many instances of pedestrians more interested in their text-message or video conversation on the phone rather than watching who or what is walking/moving in front of them.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby LateStarter » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:55 pm

@AdelaidePeter, this is a worthy endeavour to understand the history of this as we , as cyclists, have a responsibility to extend to pedestrians the care we hope to get from motorists.

This paper is informative Pedestrian-Cyclist Collisions: Issues and Risk. http://acrs.org.au/wp-content/uploads/G ... -Risk..pdf

The variability of the deaths reported in the ABS data is interesting as the above paper reports that there were 4 deaths between 2001 & 2006 and they were all in 2006, subsequent years were either 0, 1 or 2. Note that the state details for 2006 at least, (haven't looked at others), are wrong as they report 4 in nsw, 4 in Vic, 3 in Qld, 4 in WA...and the Australia total is only 4. The paper above says "..One occurred in NSW, one in Tasmania, one in Victoria and one in Queensland.."

I am surprised that there isn't more media coverage, googleing for 2006 incidents only turns up the Beach road one and the tabloid media wouldn't generally miss an opportunity to report the carnage caused by cyclists. Perhaps the lack of coverage is due to cyclists not actually being "at fault" in many cases.

There is also some discussion in this but may not add much more than you already have from others http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topi ... rth-sydney

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby queequeg » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:37 pm

g-boaf wrote:
BobtheBuilder wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote: Should have been much harsher, IMHO.


Well, we don't know what else the defendant went through, maybe it was a suitable sentence, but in principle, cyclists should be held to the same standards we (wish) MVs are held to. If you're that negligent that your behaviour results in loss of life, you've got a lot to answer for.
The principle of big gives way to small applies to bikes as much as MVs.


I reckon what you need to do is mandate all riders and pedestrians to have registration plates that must be visible at all times. Then you know people will do the right thing, because rego-plates always ensure that car drivers never run red lights, break the speed limits nor pass bike riders too closely.

I don't know about you two, but I tend to try and avoid hitting pedestrians or riding closely to them. most either riders I know also do the same. For me, I will ride on the road rather than using a crowded shared path in pedestrian heavy areas. Too many instances of pedestrians more interested in their text-message or video conversation on the phone rather than watching who or what is walking/moving in front of them.


What I saw more surprising was that the number of pedestrian-pedestrian deaths is much higher than cyclist-predestrian collisions. I don't hear anyone demanding rego for reckless pedestrians causing chaos.
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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby BobtheBuilder » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:25 pm

queequeg wrote:
What I saw more surprising was that the number of pedestrian-pedestrian deaths is much higher than cyclist-predestrian collisions.


That piqued my interest also. What could possibly have happened?

And why weren't they wearing helmets?

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:26 pm

queequeg wrote:
g-boaf wrote:
BobtheBuilder wrote:
Well, we don't know what else the defendant went through, maybe it was a suitable sentence, but in principle, cyclists should be held to the same standards we (wish) MVs are held to. If you're that negligent that your behaviour results in loss of life, you've got a lot to answer for.
The principle of big gives way to small applies to bikes as much as MVs.


I reckon what you need to do is mandate all riders and pedestrians to have registration plates that must be visible at all times. Then you know people will do the right thing, because rego-plates always ensure that car drivers never run red lights, break the speed limits nor pass bike riders too closely.

I don't know about you two, but I tend to try and avoid hitting pedestrians or riding closely to them. most other riders I know also do the same. For me, I will ride on the road rather than using a crowded shared path in pedestrian heavy areas. Too many instances of pedestrians more interested in their text-message or video conversation on the phone rather than watching who or what is walking/moving in front of them.


What I saw more surprising was that the number of pedestrian-pedestrian deaths is much higher than cyclist-predestrian collisions. I don't hear anyone demanding rego for reckless pedestrians causing chaos.


Yeah, you got my sarcasm then. And besides, Mr Scruby would be squealing like a stuck pig if anything of that sort ever looked like happening.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby Howzat » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:02 pm

g-boaf wrote:And besides, Mr Scruby would be squealing like a stuck pig if anything of that sort ever looked like happening.


I doubt that very much. He's much in favour of crackdowns on pedestrians jaywalkers, and advocates enforcement and restrictions to help keep them out of the way of cars safe.

It's almost as if he's a transparent shill.

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Re: Pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:39 pm

Howzat wrote:
g-boaf wrote:And besides, Mr Scruby would be squealing like a stuck pig if anything of that sort ever looked like happening.


I doubt that very much. He's much in favour of crackdowns on pedestrians jaywalkers, and advocates enforcement and restrictions to help keep them out of the way of cars safe.

It's almost as if he's a transparent shill.


Ah yes, Mr Harold Charles Wolfe Scruby of Bickell Road Mosman (or formerly of Bickell Road Mosman):

Our very own Yug-Yug posted this article on another forum:
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