Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

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Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby steve » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:04 am

My vote this year will be against mandatory bicycle helmet laws so I did a little searching but found little so far.

http://www.vexnews.com/news/10087/cover ... -comrades/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... id=3570047
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%A1ndor_T%C3%A1nczos
http://www.cycle-helmets.com/helmet_statistics.html#
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/764 ... t-protest/

Mod Says: This entire bit about your political orientation / opinions has been removed as we are not supporting political discussions on the forum. That being said, if you can tie it into your main point of your opinions on Helmet Laws - then this is a real cycling discussion.


I know my vote is worthless alone but if there is a good option to vote against the mandatory helmet laws i will take it ?
I am sure plenty of others on the forum here will be interested as well.

Cheers Steve.
Please visit my bicycle australia web site to learn how to fight for common sense against unfair helmet laws.
http://bicycleaustralia.org
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by BNA » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:28 am

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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby The Womble » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:28 am

With riders dying left and right, you want to ride without a helmet? Is your skull as thick as the rest of... :shock:
you do realise that Tony Abbot actually is a helmet lover as well?
Good luck making it to retirement :shock:
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby The Womble » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:34 am

BTW... Full stops mate. I cant hold off breathing while reading sentances for that long.
Secondly, you do realise the Greens give their preferences to Labour? :shock:
Finally, find me a western nation where manditory helmet laws dont exist.

Its not too often that I cringe but geeeezuz! :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby Percrime » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:50 am

I dunno.... Mr Womble. Its reading your stuff that makes me cringe. Riders dying left and right? Really? Where is this? I think we are up to about 5 cyclists killed in Victoria this year.... the car drivers are winning that little competition but even the pedestrians have a substantial lead. And you know.. before insulting other people ... you might consider that one day you are likely to end up meeting them. Hows making it to retirement looking?
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby zarniwoop » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:22 am

:roll:

I think I may have a couple of other things on my mind that determines my vote other than whether I have to wear a helmet or not.

Seriously 10/10 for pushing your point and the threads can get entertaining but I can't help feel you're pushing the proverbial up hill with this one.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby Mustang » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:34 am

I refuse to read these anti helmet links, why woul'nt you want every advantage you can get out there on the road???
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby human909 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:52 am

Mustang wrote:I refuse to read these anti helmet links, why woul'nt you want every advantage you can get out there on the road???


Thats your choice. I don't want gay sex but that doesn't mean I want it made illegal.

We are one of the few places in the world where we deny people this basic choice of wearing a helmet.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby wombatK » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:53 am

Don't worry steve, I'm gonna start a party to repeal Darwin's Laws - just so people like you can survive to a ripe old age and keep starting anti-helmet law threads in their dotage.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby The Womble » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:17 am

Percrime wrote:I dunno.... Mr Womble. Its reading your stuff that makes me cringe. Riders dying left and right? Really? Where is this? I think we are up to about 5 cyclists killed in Victoria this year.... the car drivers are winning that little competition but even the pedestrians have a substantial lead. And you know.. before insulting other people ... you might consider that one day you are likely to end up meeting them. Hows making it to retirement looking?

You can read what ever you choose into want into my post. Dont give a rats. Up until March 12 of this year, over a 12 month period there had been 33 cycling fatalities, and Im sure we all can remeber several more since. Theres been at least 4 more in Queensland since March. Im happy to refer to the high number leftly and rightly. Yup, I sure am
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby The Womble » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:22 am

And that last little dribble sounded like a threat. Im sure youd like my address by the sounds of it but youll have to settle for a sarcastic yawn :|
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby The Womble » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:30 am

Thinking maybe this thread should die quietly in the corner now
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby il padrone » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:39 am

The Womble wrote:Finally, find me a western nation where manditory helmet laws dont exist.

Its not too often that I cringe but geeeezuz! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Jeesus indeed :shock: !

Western nations without helmet laws? Try most of the USA apart from certain municipalities, much of Canada, all of France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, UK, Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Poland............ You get the drift?

I'm amazed that you don't realise that it is only Australia and NZ that actually do have a universal mandatory compiulsory helmet law, and only a couple of others that have some sort of partial helmet law. Everywhere else, including most western nations, don't bother to restrict personal dress choice to that extent.

Australia and NZ are a bit like Cuba and Nth Korea - the examples that prove the theory does not work.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby human909 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:57 am

il padrone wrote:Australia and NZ are a bit like Cuba and Nth Korea - the examples that prove the theory does not work.


Look at it this way, Australia and NZ are doing the cycling world a favour as glistening examples of how NOT to encourage cycling. :wink:
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby im_no_pro » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:04 am

As the current campaign in vic is constantly reminding us, at one point in time vic was the only place in the world with a mandatory seatbelt requirement. Same same but different.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby human909 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:11 am

im_no_pro wrote:As the current campaign in vic is constantly reminding us, at one point in time vic was the only place in the world with a mandatory seatbelt requirement. Same same but different.


Yes quite different. Seat belt laws have resulted in safer driving. Helmet laws have resulted in less safe cycling.

Seatbelt laws are significantly less intrusive. Helmet laws are more intrusive. (Try mandating helmet use in cars!)
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby im_no_pro » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:14 am

human909 wrote:
im_no_pro wrote:As the current campaign in vic is constantly reminding us, at one point in time vic was the only place in the world with a mandatory seatbelt requirement. Same same but different.


Yes quite different. Seat belt laws have resulted in safer driving. Helmet laws have resulted in less safe cycling.

Seatbelt laws are significantly less intrusive. Helmet laws are more intrusive. (Try mandating helmet use in cars!)


Yes and no. Those who were used to driving without a seatbelt found it quite intrusive, generations after this came to accept it.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby il padrone » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:20 am

im_no_pro wrote:Those who were used to driving without a seatbelt found it quite intrusive, generations after this came to accept it.

Twenty years on, most people (the 'most' who comprise 98% of commuting journeys in Australian cities) have chosen not to ride bicycles. The level of real acceptance is pretty low.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby The Womble » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:24 am

The following countries have mandatory helmet laws, in at least one jurisdiction, for either minors only, or for all riders: Australia, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, Iceland, Israel,[110] Slovakia, Sweden, USA, and New Zealand. Spain requires helmets on interurban routes.[111] In the U.S. 37 states have mandatory helmet laws,[112] and nearly 9 in 10 adults support helmet laws for children.[113] Israel's helmet law was never enforced or obeyed, and the adult element has been revoked; Mexico City has repealed its helmet law.[114]

I gotta say I stand well and truely corrected there guys. I always thought that it was much more wide spread than this. Find some of the arguments for not wearing them rediculous though. Possible strangulation by straps? Increased risk of rotational injuries? They interfere with hairstyles? Encourage riders to take risks?
Im not stupid enough not to wear a helmet. Suits me fin :mrgreen: e that everyone else has to as well.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby The Womble » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:32 am

human909 wrote:
il padrone wrote:Australia and NZ are a bit like Cuba and Nth Korea - the examples that prove the theory does not work.


Look at it this way, Australia and NZ are doing the cycling world a favour as glistening examples of how NOT to encourage cycling. :wink:


dont forget the UCI forcing everyone to wear helmets as well . Those bastards eh?
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:44 am

Given that evidence from the UK is incontrovertible that cyclists wearign helmets get given less passing distance from motorists, and that I choose to wear a helmet, I'd prefer the status quo to stay.

However, I'd prefer that far more of the population cycled so that we get more cyclists on the road and more car drivers cycling, so that there is more empathy for cyclists and safeety overall is improved. I'm beginning to form the view that this means removal of mandatory helmet laws for cyclists.

The evidence appears to show:
* Injury rates per kilometre travellled go down when there are more cyclists on the road.
* Absolute injury rates go down when mandatory helmet laws are introduced becasue the number cycling go down in the same proportion as the absolute injury reduction.
* In other words, helmet introduction appears to have been effective by reducing the number of cyclists.

While I acknowledge how much better it feels to ride without one, if the law was repealed I would choose to continue wearing mine for commuting and trail riding. For quick trips to the neighbourhood shops and back on the hack, probably not.
Last edited by trailgumby on Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby il padrone » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:48 am

The Womble wrote:The following countries have mandatory helmet laws, in at least one jurisdiction, for either minors only, or for all riders: Australia, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, Iceland, Israel,[110] Slovakia, Sweden, USA, and New Zealand. Spain requires helmets on interurban routes.[111] In the U.S. 37 states have mandatory helmet laws,[112] and nearly 9 in 10 adults support helmet laws for children.[113] Israel's helmet law was never enforced or obeyed, and the adult element has been revoked; Mexico City has repealed its helmet law.[114]

There's the crux of it. For all these countries it is either only applicable to children, or it is only in some cities or states. Then there's the question of enforcement. Some here have told us that in Spain the law is not enforced at all.

Sweden only has a law for children and there is currently a debate about removing this rule as compulsory helmet use is having a negative impact on children riding to school and general physical activity.

The Womble wrote:Find some of the arguments for not wearing them rediculous though. Possible strangulation by straps? Increased risk of rotational injuries? They interfere with hairstyles? Encourage riders to take risks?

It is a potential hazard for young children. Be aware of it!

http://apartments.about.com/od/safetyre ... ground.htm
http://www.squidoo.com/InfantAndToddlerHelmets
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby The Womble » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:10 am

Il padrone, after reading up on this for over an hour now I have to say that after sifting through much more credible research than the stuff I stumbled upon initially, I actually have to do an about face on this one!
I offer you a typically uncomfortable man hug. Besides, my hairstyle really does suffer from wearung one.
I still think Id feel safer in donning the thing for a while yet though, just as I cant drive without the seatbelt.
Still think the OP has a screw loose mind you :?

Theres a FEDERAL petition in this if you continue to find more on the merits of choice as Ill be looking at now!
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby shiv » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:27 am

I like wearing a helmet and dont care if other people are willing to risk their own head. I also dont care if its law to wear one or not. If people dont wana ride then I honestly doubt having to wear a helmet would be the sticking point for many.
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby il padrone » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:37 am

shiv wrote:I like wearing a helmet and dont care if other people are willing to risk their own head. I also dont care if its law to wear one or not. If people dont wana ride then I honestly doubt having to wear a helmet would be the sticking point for many.

That is actually exactly my sentiment, and what most of these debates are about ie. choice. Very few people that oppose Australia's helmet compulsion would wish to prevent your decision to wear one.

Realistically, if you have no preference about compulsion then you must be opposed to it (in a society which supports individual freedoms).
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Re: Election time voting against mandatory helmet laws.

Postby human909 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:39 am

The Womble wrote:Il padrone, after reading up on this for over an hour now I have to say that after sifting through much more credible research than the stuff I stumbled upon initially, I actually have to do an about face on this one!
I offer you a typically uncomfortable man hug. Besides, my hairstyle really does suffer from wearung one.
I still think Id feel safer in donning the thing for a while yet though, just as I cant drive without the seatbelt.
Still think the OP has a screw loose mind you :?

Theres a FEDERAL petition in this if you continue to find more on the merits of choice as Ill be looking at now!


Credit to you for reassessing your position.

Amsterdam has one of the highest, if not the highest cycling rate in the world. 99% don't wear helmets. Surely that tells you something.

Look at these pictures:
http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/

(BTW I lived in Amsterdam when I was young. I barely saw any helmets.)
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