Federal petition for

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: Federal petition for

Postby il padrone » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:55 pm

redned wrote:Noting also on a DoT site regarding Cycling and the Law:

"When using a public road, all bicycle riders must obey the same rules as other vehicles such as cars and trucks. The most common rules include those applying to traffic control lights, stop signs, careless and reckless riding, riding under the influence of alcohol, and keep left." (my italics)

Not so sure what your point is here :? ? Unless it's to display how government traffic advice may often be misleading. Much better to check the actual road rules.

I'm well aware that keeping left is the rule in Australia. Some drivers are apparently not so aware judging by the signs we saw on the Great Ocean Road

Image

All vehicles are required to keep left - bicycles and cars alike; on single lane roads, and on multi-lane roads over 80kmh speed limit. But nowhere does this apply any differently to bicycle riders. Cyclists may also ride the breakdown lane of many rural freeways. On multi-lane roads (80kmh and less) cyclists are not constrained to the left lane, nor required to keep left in the lane.

I have ridden all the way from Melbourne to Adelaide and beyond. We rode the main highways which were almost always two lane roads. We followed the general principle of riding just right of the left-hand white line, where there was a sealed-shoulder, or on the sealed shoulder where it was not a 'orrible rough surface (which was often the case). If there was no sealed-shoulder we would often ride 0.5-1 metre from the left edge line. We had very little grief from drivers of cars, trucks or buses. The only time we had troubles was usually when we were riding too far to the left. Riding wider on the road ensured drivers would overtake us in a correct, safe manner.

I've been riding bikes on country roads for over 30 years and know full well that this approach to country road and highway cycling is legal and safe.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:05 am

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Re: Federal petition for

Postby high_tea » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:05 am

...and this whole exchange illustrates the desperate need for more education. Some of the things that have been said are just plain wrong. I thought the Road Rules were an easy statute to read. Take a but of care, check for definitions and you're sweet, or so I thought. This thread has proved me wrong.

I do not know what the solution is, but it's an important problem. It is incumbent on every cyclist and every motorist to have an accurate understanding of the road rules; many clearly do not.

Harking back to the title of the thread, what can be done about this nationally? Enforcement has a part to play, but that's a state problem. There are several different sets of road rules, which would complicate a national education campaign.


Any thoughts?
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby The Womble » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:49 pm

Without an additional pountless 5 page argurment over an already tabled petition which is seeking a clarification where some of these vague laws exist. We can try. I really really dont like your chances, but after ignoring those that seem hellbent on leading us nowhere, we can try. :?

On a side note, aint it funny thatwhen those intent on stalling this thread run out of people to argue with, the FIVE wasted pages worth of migraine come to a grinding halt.
Im taking the Missy24 stance in that it is my thread, if youre not seen to be contributing to the thread, I will make it unavailable to you. This is only reasonable given the purpose for which this thread was created
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby il padrone » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:12 pm

:D

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Re: Federal petition for

Postby The Womble » Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:13 pm

I jus got word from a family freind that a HRT V8 Supercar team driver is interesed im the 1 metre proposal. Theres the kind of support needed from the other side! :P
No point in preaching to the converted as Mathew Keenan pointed out to me at one point
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby The Womble » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:17 pm

Image
These signs are actually for the foreigners who want to drive one of this countries and the worlds most iconic roads, although with some locals coughcough ahem hemmm Commodore P plater drivers ahem cough, you would wonder
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby zero » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:03 pm

The Womble wrote:Without an additional pountless 5 page argurment over an already tabled petition which is seeking a clarification where some of these vague laws exist. We can try. I really really dont like your chances, but after ignoring those that seem hellbent on leading us nowhere, we can try. :?

On a side note, aint it funny thatwhen those intent on stalling this thread run out of people to argue with, the FIVE wasted pages worth of migraine come to a grinding halt.
Im taking the Missy24 stance in that it is my thread, if youre not seen to be contributing to the thread, I will make it unavailable to you. This is only reasonable given the purpose for which this thread was created


Its not really a discussion if you attempt to eliminate contrary view points by forum politicking and not by marshalling reason. That you've run into strong and well reasoned, legally correct arguments that counter your positions, should be viewed as a positive, and something to learn from, and not something to attempt the forum equivalent of lalalalalalala I can't hear you.

I'm personally distinctly interested in pro cycling safety and utilisation lobbying, but I'm not interested in negative steps, - I'm dead set against enshrining the half-assed pass legally, and I'm not going to support a spokesperson who appears to be struggling to interpret the current state of the law, and is definately struggling to engage other cyclists constructively.

As I've said before, motorists believing they have entitlement to pass inlane, is a direct contributing factor in the deaths of cyclists.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby The Womble » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:26 pm

Oh dear. Read the post. The thread is about FUTRE ACTION, Not PAST ACTION. so yup, the first 5 pages were pointless. Black and white statement again seen as orange. Read FAIL
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby il padrone » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:52 pm

Sorry mate, please do not start handing out pass or fail cards. :evil:
Last edited by il padrone on Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby Parrott » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:05 pm

il padrone wrote::D



Haven't waded through all of it but that is the post of the discussion so far, pretty enjoyable. I'll show my kids tomorrow they'll love it.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby The Womble » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:27 pm

Here you go again. In 5 months of dealing with all sorts you are the most self obsessed arrogant pig headed yob Ive come across. The petition was tabled because the laws are so vague that there is No CLEAR INTERPRETATION TO BE HAD BY ANYONE BUT YOU.
The thread grinds to a halt every time I try to get this back on track because YOU run out of people to argue with over the same completely irrelevant points in threads where they dont belong, which in turn has seen some that did try to put forward sugestions give up, and YOU still have nothing constructive to add in terms of furthering cycling safety for anybody .
Il Padrongo, if you dont want to contribute, or insisit on whining about helmets, which even the Mods are taking the piss over, and peoples legitimate interpretatiom of the law (of which I found a senior seargent also admiting today... He signed the petition and applaudes it), then flying bicycles off and start another thread. Whats stopping you?
Just to recap then...
Arguing for four days against laws you cant be arsed doing anything about? Fail
Arguing that thousands of Queenslanders including a large number of the police force who signed it at Brisbane Central Operations, lack your irreputable knowledge and precise
interpretation of the laws pertaining to the petition? Fail

Dont bother reposting in this thread.


stcking to the intended discussion as asked, OR contributing anything usable after being by far the most vocal? Fail

understanding that there is no place
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:36 pm

[mod helmet]Deep breath please Womble.

Thank you.

Shaun
[/mod helmet]
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:41 pm

Mod Says: Boys and girls... behave yourself

There is nothing lost in agreeing to disagree... that is also admirable and shows that we can respect one another even if we don't share their view.

Seriously, if this thread stops being about exchanging info and is just leading to too many people having a go at one another and getting upset - it will be locked.


Tip1: If any users wish to edit their posts and remove naughty words or insults - that would help.

Tip2: Use the ignore function if you would prefer not to see comments by certain members.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby il padrone » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:43 pm

So what is this petition you are planning to create going to propose? An increase to the supply of coffee?

Harangue me all you like, it doesn't bother me.

You are the one seeking to establish a connection to push forward your petition - you need to be able to explain it clearly to others. So far I have no idea what you intend to achieve, despite suggestions that many have put forward.
Last edited by il padrone on Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby The Womble » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:51 pm

Mod Say: content removed - nothing of value or interest, just having a go at another member.
Last edited by The Womble on Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:54 pm

Thread locked. I am expecting the insults to be edited by owners in lieu of moderator action.

Challenging an argument or view =
ok
Insulting a person = not ok

Any questions... please read all mod comments and the Guidelines because it has been dealt with a thousand times before.



Edit: Thread unlocked for members who wish to edit their posts (though I wont mind if there are positive contributions - so consider it half unlocked)
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby damhooligan » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:45 pm

The Womble wrote:Mod edit: personal attack removed


no comment.
Last edited by damhooligan on Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:51 pm

Damhooligan, that doesn't help at all - I am waiting for the posts to be edited by the authors and if members wish to contribute further, lets get on topic and make it a positive contribution.
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby The Womble » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:18 pm

AUbicycles. previous post edited. I plan on taking baby steps
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby damhooligan » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:34 pm

AUbicycles wrote:Damhooligan, that doesn't help at all - I am waiting for the posts to be edited by the authors and if members wish to contribute further, lets get on topic and make it a positive contribution.


Sorry, i tried to give it a positive spin.
or at least that was my intention...

Sorry. :oops:
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Re: Federal petition for

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:41 pm

Ladies and Gentlemen.

Round two - if the original topic is of interest then we are getting back on track now and being nice and friendly.
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