Maybe one day they'll be known as a 'fine prevention device'.find_bruce wrote:Bit of loaded language from the NSW Traffic & Highway police - cyclists are no longer booked for not wearing a helmet - it is now a "safety helmet"
Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
- DrShifty
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:58 pm
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby DrShifty » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:39 pm
-
- Posts: 9810
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby human909 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:46 pm
"Dr Bartone said there were decades of evidence-based research to back up current healthy eating guidelines"
Click the link if you want to share in my off topic, discussion...
Yep. While I'm more in agreement with the Doctors here, but pulling out the 'we are the experts' line sounds exactly like MHL. And especially when it comes to nutrition I consider a fair bit of the medical 'evidence' about as bad as that of the MHLs. In the broader picture it is very odd how doctor's guidelines line up so neatly with traditional (as in 50 years ago) western diets as opposed to say indigenous Australian or indigenous Inuit diets.
Personally I've never heard of the TV show and only vaguely of the Aussie 'paleo pete'. I have slightly less respect for his nutritional advice than the 'doctors'.
But do I agree in stopping documentaries and viewpoints being presented simply because 'doctors' (or any other experts) disagree? That almost the situation MHLs have been in for the last 25 years....
(Yep. The modern Australian lifestyle and health is heading downhill. But that OTHER pile of evidence points much more strongly to sedentary behaviour than an imperfect diet.)
-
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
- Location: Perth, WA
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby NASHIE » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:44 pm
Yep were are hunter gatherers in make up. But now its no hunting and too much gathering. Felt so sad for a young (very overweight) kid at my youngest schools assembly on Friday who struggled to stand up 400mm high stage to accept his honour certificate. He went to hand and knees to get up, and i reckon he was about 9-10yrs old. Healthly 6yr olds didn't even notice the step. Some rich tv personality selling his BS paleo diet aint going help this kid.human909 wrote: (Yep. The modern Australian lifestyle and health is heading downhill. But that OTHER pile of evidence points much more strongly to sedentary behaviour than an imperfect diet.)
-
- Posts: 9810
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby human909 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:06 pm
It must be the carbs. (kidding )NASHIE wrote:Felt so sad for a young (very overweight) kid at my youngest schools assembly on Friday who struggled to stand up 400mm high stage to accept his honour certificate. He went to hand and knees to get up, and i reckon he was about 9-10yrs old. Healthly 6yr olds didn't even notice the step.
While his diet probably is bad, I'm sure you could grow a healthy kid out of it if the same child was active.
Definitely agree with that. Though I'd suggest that doctors advice regarding diets isn't helping too many people either.NASHIE wrote:Some rich tv personality selling his BS paleo diet aint going help this kid.
My advice (that I'm sure many on this forum would concur with):
Stay active and find a way to ENJOY being active. The latter IMO is so very important, because people often stop doing things they don't enjoy.
-
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
- Location: Perth, WA
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby NASHIE » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:43 pm
Absolutely, and maybe on thread, no MHL would mean kids like him would ride to school ?. Of the approx 400 kids that attand this primary school i only see 7-10 bikes in the shed when i ride to meet my daughter to ride home. Yet being a school in an area where all the kids come from about a 1-2km radius, they must all walk you say ?. No because the Footpath is jammed with parents cars that cant be arsed educating their kids on healthy living, ie walk or ride the 300-400m to school. Yep teach your kids to drive 300m These poor kids have no hope. The bad scary people that are around every cnr to harm our kids have always been there, and i don't accept that as the reason kids are not allowed to ride or walk to school. Its just lazy PARENTING that cant be asred walking or riding with their kids to teach them healthy living.human909 wrote: While his diet probably is bad, I'm sure you could grow a healthy kid out of it if the same child was active.
Michael Mosley is about the only Dr on TV who manages to back healthy eating practises with real life tests to confirm or dismiss......or as much as you can in a ½hr time slot. I think he favours a fasting type diet which really gets us back to Hunter gatherers indigenous diet.
-
- Posts: 9810
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby human909 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:42 am
Though I'd give the parents a break here. We have societal and government backed scaremongering. We even have laws than punish parents for allowing kids to be independent. Of course there is a line between independent kids and childhood neglect but sometimes it can get ridiculous.NASHIE wrote:Its just lazy PARENTING that cant be arsed walking or riding with their kids to teach them healthy living.
Don't know that one, not that any TV Dr is ideal. Though I have heard of the fasting fad. I sort of practice that myself sometime due to laziness. Also the one time I did try a fat reduction diet it was pretty much fasting plus protein. (It worked, though it was more of a personal body experiment rather than a health or vanity need. I had a tiny bit of extra fat compared to my normal zero excess, skinny default. I'm normally trying to put on muscle weight not lose it.)NASHIE wrote:Michael Mosley is about the only Dr on TV who manages to back healthy eating practises with real life tests to confirm or dismiss......or as much as you can in a ½hr time slot. I think he favours a fasting type diet which really gets us back to Hunter gatherers indigenous diet.
- Comedian
- Posts: 9166
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby Comedian » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:42 pm
So, I was obese 8 years ago, and well on the way to being properly obese. I lost 30kg or so and have kept it off for those 8 years. That makes me a very very rare Hooman in our society. I have achieved this by finding the activity I love through riding.human909 wrote: My advice (that I'm sure many on this forum would concur with):
Stay active and find a way to ENJOY being active. The latter IMO is so very important, because people often stop doing things they don't enjoy.
When having the uncomfortable lunch room discussions with co-workers.. I just say you need to do 1h a day of pretty intense exercise .. probably 6 days a week. Finding your 30 might be enough if you're already quite fit but if you want to reverse a lifetime of inactivity you're going to have to do better. There is no magic pill. Sorry.
Then I usually get the "but this, or that, or the other" excuse why they can't ride. I say that's fine - but you'll have to find something else then - but it might be just easier to ride to work.
Anyway.. all a bit off topic to this thread. What I do find interesting though - when you look at crowds of people in Brisbane. There are very good reasons to wear hats - yet I'd be guessing only 1 or 2 % of people actually wear one.
I know wearing a helmet isn't an imposition to a Mamil.. but if you want to get people just to ride around the local area.. it's a massive barrier. Oh well.. doubt it will ever change.
-
- Posts: 1144
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:07 pm
- Location: Mornington Peninsula
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby Arbuckle23 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:06 am
- Ross
- Posts: 5742
- Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:53 pm
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby Ross » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:38 am
(link to PDF - not sure if it will work)
https://t.co/GvCCJDpQUG
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:33 pm
An excellent video!!Arbuckle23 wrote:Interesting video put up on Cycling Tips
-
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:36 pm
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby Scintilla » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:34 pm
DrShifty wrote:Maybe one day they'll be known as a 'fine prevention device'.find_bruce wrote:Bit of loaded language from the NSW Traffic & Highway police - cyclists are no longer booked for not wearing a helmet - it is now a "safety helmet"
- AUbicycles
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15589
- Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
- Location: Sydney & Frankfurt
- Contact:
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby AUbicycles » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:06 pm
In the SBS Cycling Central opinion piece, Tan hits the nail on the head... well done:Geraint Thomas wrote:I've never ridden a bike in London, apart from in a race," said the 2018 Tour de France champion.
"I've watched from a taxi and it does seem a bit crazy. I would certainly make helmets compulsory."
https://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/b ... -defence-g
Anthony Tan wrote:It is not Thomas who should be pilloried but our Western World politicians who, government after government, fail to see how an insidious obesity pandemic could be reversed, if not solved, through a cycling infrastructure that encourages and supports an "everyday cycling" mentality, be it part or all of the way, and helmeted or helmet-less.
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6621
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby Thoglette » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:25 pm
No helmets, no problem: how the Dutch created a casual biking culture: A chat with the authors of a new book on cycling in the Netherlands.By David Roberts @drvox david@vox.com Aug 28, 2018, 2:00pm EDTDavid Roberts wrote: David Roberts
The Dutch don’t wear bike helmets. How safe is it to ride a bike in the Netherlands?
Chris Bruntlett
We — like you — live in a place where helmets have been mandated by law, because they’ve been accepted as a commonsense safety device, normal as a seatbelt. But the Dutch show that [for them], safety in infrastructure, safety in slowing cars, and safety in numbers are all far more important than safety in body armor.
David Roberts
Yeah, the US approach seems to be to up-armor the cyclist so that cars don’t have to change.
The sort of street you can't build in the US
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6621
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
WA State Parliment "Nanny State" Select Committee - submit before 5 Oct
Postby Thoglette » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:05 am
Amongst other things they are looking at "outdoor recreation such as cycling and aquatic leisure".
Submissions will be accepted until 4pm on Friday 5th October.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:06 am
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby hunch » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:00 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2jbvp4c0E
I think the charges were dangerous and neg driving, ended up with a $450 fine and suspension. Helmet fine is $319 in NSW, seems everything's a touch out of whack.
-
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:33 am
- Location: Remote NT
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby BobtheBuilder » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:59 am
New South Wales: $319, 0 demerit points
https://www.slatergordon.com.au/blog/is ... al-offence
The website above also says this about the importance of dooring as a type of cyclist injury:
"In fact, in Victoria alone there were 494 injuries to road users due to car-dooring crashes between 2006 and 2010, of which 433 (88 per cent) were to cyclists. What’s more, these cyclist injuries represented 19.4 per cent of all cycling injuries reported to police, making it the most common crash type."
Absurd that an unproven safety device, which has as much as an 8:1 public health disbenefit, and which only affects the wearer, attracts the same penalty as an action that can result in someone else's death and is proven to result in a high rate of injury.
-
- Posts: 6179
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
- Location: Mill Park
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby fat and old » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:08 am
-
- Posts: 9810
- Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:48 am
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby human909 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:57 pm
One of the slimmest developed nations:fat and old wrote:Are there fat people in Amsterdam?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... mass_index
Only marginally higher than France, Denmark, Switzerland..... South Korea and Japan are the stand outs of wealthy nations from my brief perusal.
- baabaa
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby baabaa » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:41 pm
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/09/m ... dont-mind/
-
- Posts: 6179
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 pm
- Location: Mill Park
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby fat and old » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:53 pm
- Mububban
- Posts: 3065
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby Mububban » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:00 pm
Personally, I'm a fan of helmets
-
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:33 am
- Location: Remote NT
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby BobtheBuilder » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:20 pm
Good for you. If I drove dangerously in motor vehicles, I'd wear a helmet too, but if I was just heading out to meet friends I wouldn't - and don't.Mububban wrote:Personally, I'm a fan of helmets
The science is pretty clear - head injury risk is greater in motor vehicles than on bicycles.
Do you also wear a helmet when you drive?
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6621
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby Thoglette » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:56 pm
As am I.Mububban wrote:Personally, I'm a fan of helmets
But mandatory helmet laws suck, for a range of reasons outlined in this thread.
Short version: those most likely to benefit from helmets were wearing them anyway (like you) and those who wouldn't (all those people who used to ride to the shops, pub or train station) mostly just stopped riding.
Plus the anti-crowd got to call cycling "dangerous" and were given another excuse for poor driver behaviour and poor road design.
If one must* have a MHL it should be limited to riders wearing shoes with foot retention or body armour.
* after all, MHLs are more about politics than public health
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:33 am
- Location: Remote NT
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby BobtheBuilder » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:27 pm
They are only about politics, the public health arguments are all well and truly against MHLs.Thoglette wrote:* after all, MHLs are more about politics than public health
- DavidS
- Posts: 3639
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:24 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)
Postby DavidS » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:43 pm
Well that's nice, but, your anecdote does not equal data.Mububban wrote:I've had two helmet-busting accidents in the last week, and my noggin is fine thanks to my helmets. One was going over the bars riding MTB, the other was knocked off my road bike by a car while commuting. One impact to each side of the skull but the helmets did their job.
Personally, I'm a fan of helmets
I fail to see the relevance of this to the helmet law debate.
I understand you are a fan of helmets, does that also translate to being a fan of the law which forces everyone to wear them on a bicycle? If so, why?
DS
Return to “Cycling Safety and Advocacy”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.