Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

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yugyug
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby yugyug » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:19 pm

Dragster1 wrote: Helmets are being introduced into schools and students encouraged to wear them over there. Not directly from the Government but they have still authorised for it to happen.
The Dutch don't have monopoly on intelligence, there are idiots everywhere. And Zeeland is a pretty small area in Holland, it won't role out over the rest of the country, I can guarantee it.

The problem with helmet promotion is right there in the text:
"People look at you funny," he says. Several people have yelled, "We're not in Germany," he adds. Germans, according to the CTC, bike less and wear helmets more than the Dutch do.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby human909 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:48 pm

WARNING PRO-MHL ARGUMENT FROM HUMAN909!

Getting rid of stigma of wearing a safety item is definitely one things I can support. Even better than having the freedom to choose is having the freedom to choose without being judged for your choice. So getting rid of any stigma that exists is great even in Holland. The best way to get rid of the stigma is to force or encourage everyone to wear a helmet. (Funnily enough, it was a German who espoused this argument to me.)

/END


But... The negatives of forcing cyclists to wear helmets are far greater than any benefits. In fact even strongly encouraging helmets has been linked to negative affects regarding the rates of cycling.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby AUbicycles » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:12 pm

Christopher here, your friendly admin.

I would like to remind participants that irrespective of views, when posting and commenting take time to review your post before you click 'Submit'. Please click the preview button and read your post to consider if it may be interpreted in other ways or misunderstood.

The MHL is emotionally charged, it is because of passion in our beliefs and view - however we need to take care to be respectful in our communication. When people become uncomfortable participating, it limits the ability of the community to thrive, accept new impulses and to grow.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:30 pm

I'd like to apologise to Top_Bhoy and all members for allowing frustration to release my inner cynic.

It won't happen again.

Shaun
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby warthog1 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:28 am

Mulger bill wrote:I'd like to apologise to Top_Bhoy and all members for allowing frustration to release my inner cynic.

It won't happen again.

Shaun
Bugger :( :lol:

It takes a big man to apologise, so kudos 8)
imo you didn't have anything to apologise for though :? Mods are held to far higher account than your average forumite which is very difficult I reckon.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby human909 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:54 am

Agreed. I wanted to say more but it is probably best not to look back.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby biker jk » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:08 pm

I truly hope the lad makes a full recovery. A terrible incident.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/0 ... f-brisbane

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Xplora » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:36 pm

Ouch. One has to ask "how on earth do you think an MHL is going to help this??" because if my boys end up going toe to toe with a bus, the helmet isn't going to do much.

Where were his brakes? Why the hell was he in front of the bus? Why couldn't the bus stop in time? (we know why the rider couldn't stop in time!)

This is classic case of asking the wrong question. It's ok that the car went into oncoming traffic, he had an airbag and seatbelt? :shock:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby bychosis » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:32 pm

Xplora wrote:Ouch. One has to ask "how on earth do you think an MHL is going to help this??" because if my boys end up going toe to toe with a bus, the helmet isn't going to do much.

Where were his brakes? Why the hell was he in front of the bus? Why couldn't the bus stop in time? (we know why the rider couldn't stop in time!)

This is classic case of asking the wrong question. It's ok that the car went into oncoming traffic, he had an airbag and seatbelt? :shock:
Yes, good questions, but the article indicates his head hit the windscreen of the bus, and the pavement. IF this is true then helmet would have been useful. As with any media report, we only get what the journo considers relevant though.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Dave Trees » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:10 pm

A question regarding MHLs in Victoria ..... I figure the experts are all in this thread !

Is it mandatory to wear a helmet on (for instance) a Rail Trail, or a bicycle path ?

My understanding is that the MHLs are part of the Road Rules, and certainly pretty much all rail trails are not roads ... most are crown land of one sort or another .... so the road rules would not apply ?

I imagine that many bicycle paths would be similar, where they are not part of a road, or road related area ?

(The answer is probably in here somewhere, but there are WAY too many pages to trawl through to find it !)

TIA

Dave

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:50 pm

I think that all of us regular posters in this thread have written something that could of been written better.

Hope that boy is OK
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Procat » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:02 pm

Dave Trees wrote:A question regarding MHLs in Victoria ..... I figure the experts are all in this thread !

Is it mandatory to wear a helmet on (for instance) a Rail Trail, or a bicycle path ?

My understanding is that the MHLs are part of the Road Rules, and certainly pretty much all rail trails are not roads ... most are crown land of one sort or another .... so the road rules would not apply ?

I imagine that many bicycle paths would be similar, where they are not part of a road, or road related area ?

(The answer is probably in here somewhere, but there are WAY too many pages to trawl through to find it !)

TIA

Dave
Looking at this you would need to be wearing a helmet https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety- ... cle-helmet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Scroll to the bottom to the pdf link Bicycle helmets - don't ride without one (This law applies on roads, bicycle paths, bicycle lanes, footpaths, shared paths and separated footpaths. It also includes other public places such as recreational parks and car parks.)
Last edited by Procat on Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:03 pm

Dave Trees wrote:A question regarding MHLs in Victoria ..... I figure the experts are all in this thread !

Is it mandatory to wear a helmet on (for instance) a Rail Trail, or a bicycle path
Yes. Rail-trails are legally road-related areas.
Dave Trees wrote:My understanding is that the MHLs are part of the Road Rules, and certainly pretty much all rail trails are not roads ... most are crown land of one sort or another .... so the road rules would not apply ?
No, wrong on that. Road rules still apply (see above).
Dave Trees wrote:I imagine that many bicycle paths would be similar, where they are not part of a road, or road related area ?
Yes. Bike paths are a scarce thing, at least where I live, but plenty of shared paths. Any path designed for and open to the use of bicycles or vehicles is a road-related area. Road rules all apply.
Mandatory helmet law?
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Dragster1 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:32 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I think that all of us regular posters in this thread have written something that could of been written better.

Hope that boy is OK
Yeah! Me too, we have had a bit of bad luck here. I was told there was a bike fatality on the Southside at a roundabout also.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Dave Trees » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:35 pm

il padrone wrote:[
Yes. Rail-trails are legally road-related areas.
I didn't realise how broad the definition of "road related area" was ! Article 13.1 (c) catches them, even though most would not be classed as "roads" (being just unreserved crown land in most cases).

Thanks for the info.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Summernight » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:36 am

biker jk wrote:I truly hope the lad makes a full recovery. A terrible incident.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/0 ... f-brisbane
Probably the wrong thread for this thought - but are we sure he had no brakes? Some of these bikes have pedal brakes - the old school way. I remember when I was a kid my bike had the pedal brakes and no hand brakes.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby biker jk » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:01 am

Summernight wrote:
biker jk wrote:I truly hope the lad makes a full recovery. A terrible incident.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/0 ... f-brisbane
Probably the wrong thread for this thought - but are we sure he had no brakes? Some of these bikes have pedal brakes - the old school way. I remember when I was a kid my bike had the pedal brakes and no hand brakes.
I did hear that the rider's mate said he had removed the brakes. It may have been from a television news story so can't trace the source. In any case, when I was a child I crashed on my BMX while racing the traffic lights on the footpath since I hit some gravel from the footpath being dug up, my feet slipped off the pedals and so no brakes!

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby bychosis » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:11 am

AFAIK brake less bikes are preferred in the BMX trick world. No cable tangles when you spin the bars and not coaster brake to prevent repositioning pedals by rotating backwards. Also, like the fixie world, brake less is a lot cleaner look.

It does raise the question though despite having the brakes did he need them or attempt to stop prior to the incident?

Either way a horrible thing to happen.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby yugyug » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:03 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I think that all of us regular posters in this thread have written something that could of been written better.
I am a frequent editor of my comments in the few minutes straight after posting. Catch a comment quickly and you'll see the stuff I write first before coming to my senses! :roll:
Hope that boy is OK
Me too, poor kid.

I hate the attention paid to things like no-helmet, no brakes - comes across as victim blaming and a way to absolve the driver of responsibility before any legal process begins. Were the brakes even a factor or was the bus driver just careless?? How would a helmet prevent the collision from happening? etc...

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:43 pm

yugyug wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:I think that all of us regular posters in this thread have written something that could of been written better.
I am a frequent editor of my comments in the few minutes straight after posting. Catch a comment quickly and you'll see the stuff I write first before coming to my senses! :roll:
Me too, although I frequently take a bit longer :roll: By then I've been quoted and it's too late.
The best response then is to go quiet and hope it all goes away :lol: I don't do that often enough either :roll:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby yugyug » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:18 pm

California is considering an MHL and Bike Snob NYC is pissed off:
There is a creak in our metaphorical bottom bracket, and if we don't address it now it's only a matter of time before we squash our genitals on the Top Tube of Catastrophic Failure.

So what is this creaking? Well, a California senator has introduced a bill for a mandatory bicycle helment law, and our beloved cycling media--which should be standing united against such nonsense in the interest of cyclists everywhere--is instead entertaining it, and in at least one case actually supporting it.
Now I don't care what your feelings on helment use are. Maybe you're one of those people who thinks not wearing a bicycle helment is tantamount to suicide. Maybe you're one of those people who refuses to wear one under any circumstances because they mess up your hair. Or maybe you're like me and don't care much about your hair because you're losing it anyway, so you wear a helment when you're riding a go-fast bike in a special outfit but you don't bother when you're noodling around town in street clothes.

And don't tell me which one you are, because honestly I don't give a !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!.

The point is that I have no problem with helments, but if you support a mandatory bicycle helment law then you are anti-cycling. There, I said it. You're a traitor. A heretic. Give up your bike and go lease a Hyundai, because you are playing right into the hands of your oppressors.
More at the link:
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com.au/2015 ... s.html?m=1

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby yugyug » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:19 pm

Looks like the swear filter works on quotes too - I guess that's logical -sorry mods.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:49 pm

Gotta love the ironic Australian video link at the end; we are all, like, Top Gun :roll:

Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby human909 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:40 pm

Not just helmets. Heroes wear lifejackets too!


:wink:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby warthog1 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:54 pm

yugyug wrote:California is considering an MHL and Bike Snob NYC is pissed off:
There is a creak in our metaphorical bottom bracket, and if we don't address it now it's only a matter of time before we squash our genitals on the Top Tube of Catastrophic Failure.

So what is this creaking? Well, a California senator has introduced a bill for a mandatory bicycle helment law, and our beloved cycling media--which should be standing united against such nonsense in the interest of cyclists everywhere--is instead entertaining it, and in at least one case actually supporting it.
Now I don't care what your feelings on helment use are. Maybe you're one of those people who thinks not wearing a bicycle helment is tantamount to suicide. Maybe you're one of those people who refuses to wear one under any circumstances because they mess up your hair. Or maybe you're like me and don't care much about your hair because you're losing it anyway, so you wear a helment when you're riding a go-fast bike in a special outfit but you don't bother when you're noodling around town in street clothes.

And don't tell me which one you are, because honestly I don't give a !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!.

The point is that I have no problem with helments, but if you support a mandatory bicycle helment law then you are anti-cycling. There, I said it. You're a traitor. A heretic. Give up your bike and go lease a Hyundai, because you are playing right into the hands of your oppressors.
More at the link:
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com.au/2015 ... s.html?m=1
The whole thing is worth a read :8. Thanks for the link, it is well written.
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