Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thread)

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby damhooligan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:34 am

ldrcycles wrote:
lturner wrote:
On another issue, are any MHL supporters willing to take up the case for the affirmative that this guy is doing something reckless and requires police attention?

Image


I'm not a MHL supporter, but that bloke ABSOLUTELY requires police attention. Wearing those shoes in public :shock: . My eyes!


I noticed those shoes as well..they are awesome.
I want some!!!
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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by BNA » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:36 am

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby lturner » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:36 am

The 2nd Womble wrote:That's missing the point. He's riding in a country (obviously not OZ) where there is no law requiring him to wear a helmet. Nobody is arguing that not wearing a helmet in is reckless in of itself. Those like me are keen to point out that riding like this in Oz where he is breaking the law, and one which practcally every Australian over the age of 5 knows is in existance, is reckless given the message it is sending to all who now label him a law breaker.


Nah that is the point. 99/100 people who argue in favour of MHL do so because they believe everyone should wear helmets all the time - they are arguing that not wearing a helmet is reckless in and of itself. You are the only person I've come across whose main objection in this debate is that some people are "breaking the law", and breaking any sort of law is morally repugnant. Although I have wholly enjoyed your contributions, I don't think it's unfair to remind you at this juncture that "it's not just all about you". :wink:

In fact, most people care little about breaking minor laws. I prove it to you with this example: How many people exceed the speed limit by small amounts, say 5km/hr when they drive? It would not be an exaggeration to say that probably well over 50% of drivers do this each and every single time they get in the car. And speeding by 5km/hr is a more serious offence than cycling without a helmet in the eyes of the law (eg in Qld no helmet = $100 fine, speeding = $146 fine).
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby PawPaw » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:02 am

damhooligan wrote:Yeah shame on those euros....
The stats clearly show its dangerous to ride a bike over there....
Mayby we should force them to wear helmets too....


The stats show it is safer to ride a bike there than here, but as haters you can ignore at will....
There's less crashes, period, because according to your logic, not wearing a helmet makes it safer. hahaha. Magical thinking!!! Yep, the different infrastructure, the different motorist accountability laws, the different motorist culture, the higher density living and complications/cost of parking cars, has absolutely nothing to do with it. You guys think it is safer purely because........they don't wear helmets... hahahaa. kindergarten...

BTW, can you haters find a picture of a cyclist riding on an Amsterdam winter's day, you know, one when the av. max temp is 5C, or how about Copenhagen with a max of 2C. You see, I am interested in whether they actually put something on their head, you know, to keep it warm. Because according to you lot, soooo many people won't ride if they risk messing up their hair, with a piece of foam.... hahahaha. hey don't worry.....I found some.

Image
a Euro chick wearing something on their head in winter....go figure....so that blows the 'not going to ride cos a helmet messes up my hair' codswallop....cos they'd be wearing the same thing on their head when walking....brouhahahaha....or do they refuse to walk in the winter too hahaha.

hey, and here's one of Copenhagen....
Image
ahhhhhh!!!! all that hair getting messed up!!!! hahaha
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby human909 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:27 am

Surprise, surprise. When it is cold outside people like to keep their head and ears warm. :roll:

But I'm not sure what your point here is or how it relates to the argument. What does it matter WHAT reasons people have for not wearing a helmet? Isn't that the whole point of allowing CHOICE? How is Dutch and Danish cyclists keeping their head warm an argument for Australian MHLs? :? :?: :?
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby greyhoundtom » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:01 am

ahhhhhh!!!! all that hair getting messed up!!!! hahaha


Bugger............obviously kindergarten time..........not really funny..........just kinda sad :roll:


....brouhahahaha....
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby The 2nd Womble » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:10 am

This thread rocks.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby PawPaw » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:22 am

human909 wrote:But I'm not sure what your point here is or how it relates to the argument. What does it matter WHAT reasons people have for not wearing a helmet?


ask your hater buddies, who have argued over 150 odd pages, Australia is more obese than it would be without MHL, because SOOOO many Australians don't want a piece of foam messing up their hair.....just more lamer logic used by MHL haters.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Xplora » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:29 am

PawPaw wrote:
human909 wrote:But I'm not sure what your point here is or how it relates to the argument. What does it matter WHAT reasons people have for not wearing a helmet?


ask your hater buddies, who have argued over 150 odd pages, Australia is more obese than it would be without MHL, because SOOOO many Australians don't want a piece of foam messing up their hair.....just more lamer logic used by MHL haters.

Stats show around 16% (1 in 6) don't want to ride because of the helmet. Of these, let's say 2/3s of them are women. (don't know if this is the primary reason for avoiding riding). So maybe 10% are complaining about messing up their hair/too hot/etc.

Don't misrepresent the stats. MHL opponents rely on the stats because they support our position. That is what makes such comments hilarious. 2 million potential riders will not do it because of the helmet in Australia... :shock: Half of Sydney. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby PawPaw » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:31 am

Xplora wrote:Don't misrepresent the stats. MHL opponents rely on the stats because they support our position. That is what makes such comments hilarious. 2 million potential riders will not do it because of the helmet in Australia...


hahahahaha. I'm laughing my a$$ off. The same cohort put a lot of other factors for not riding, before helmet hair....but you know that...
You know, I am even open to a trial repeal of MHL in a selected area, just to prove you guys wrong.
You can't even get a grip on why cycling rates vary dramatically across Holland and Denmark.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby damhooligan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:38 pm

PawPaw wrote:You can't even get a grip on why cycling rates vary dramatically across Holland and Denmark.


So true... i have no clue whatsoever...

Oh no wait i might have got it...
It because their winters are so cold they wear headgear....
Thats it yeah???
The dutch have one word to describe the aussie MHL, this word is ;
SCHIJNVEILIGHEID !!
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Xplora » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:05 pm

PawPaw wrote:
Xplora wrote:Don't misrepresent the stats. MHL opponents rely on the stats because they support our position. That is what makes such comments hilarious. 2 million potential riders will not do it because of the helmet in Australia...


hahahahaha. I'm laughing my a$$ off. The same cohort put a lot of other factors for not riding, before helmet hair....but you know that...
You know, I am even open to a trial repeal of MHL in a selected area, just to prove you guys wrong.
You can't even get a grip on why cycling rates vary dramatically across Holland and Denmark.

You're embarrassing yourself. :idea:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby lturner » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:05 pm

PawPaw wrote:a Euro chick wearing something on their head in winter....go figure....so that blows the 'not going to ride cos a helmet messes up my hair' codswallop....cos they'd be wearing the same thing on their head when walking....brouhahahaha....or do they refuse to walk in the winter too hahaha.


So everyone wears beanies at all times during winter in Europe? Would it therefore be OK to make them mandatory? Of course not....there is even someone in the background of your own photo wearing nothing on their head.

You are contributing absolutely nothing intelligent to this discussion.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby The 2nd Womble » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:42 pm

And in doing so he's making everyone else look bad. I don't even know what I'm arguing any more...
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby PawPaw » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:38 pm

lturner wrote:So everyone wears beanies at all times during winter in Europe? Would it therefore be OK to make them mandatory? Of course not....there is even someone in the background of your own photo wearing nothing on their head.

You are contributing absolutely nothing intelligent to this discussion.



CONTENT DELETED

Mod Says: Thin Ice Paw Paw, arguing your case doesn't mean insulting others and question their integrity and character, this is flaming. Your are entitled to your views, others are entitled to their views and it is completely acceptable to disagree and leave it at that.


so there's nothing said in the above posts that insults me or questions my integrity and character hey Mod?
Last edited by PawPaw on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:05 pm

human909 wrote:But I'm not sure what your point here is or how it relates to the argument.


There is no reason except the argument itself. Pity that it in no way resembles an argument. Apparently these "arguments" have also "outed" me as another one of these h8terz. Odd, as I've never made my opposition to MHLs a secret, nor my support for wearing them whenever the perceived risk rises above minimal.

Incoming wibble in 5...4...3...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:09 pm

Sooooo, Womble.

You were man enough to accept my challenge, any luck finding enough evidence to convert me? :D

Shaun
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby The 2nd Womble » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:20 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Sooooo, Womble.

You were man enough to accept my challenge, any luck finding enough evidence to convert me? :D

Shaun

...I forgot :oops:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby PawPaw » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:24 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
The 2nd Womble wrote:There are actually a few of those claims in this thread MB :)


NO benefit Dave? As in "You might as well wear half a watermelon for all the good it will do"?

Challenge extended. If you can find me just two references in this thread, I will withdraw from participation forever and you have my sworn word that I will never nude nut again.

Shaun



"You'd be far safer ditching the helmet during the day and wearing a wide brimmed hat in summer....."

"I'm about to bin this excuse for head protection, but it has made me wonder just how many unsuspecting riders there are out there wearing a helmet in the mistaken belief it will actually protect their head in a fall."

In my 'EXPERT' opinion the helmet would offer no protection for the cyclist at all. :?
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:46 pm

PawPaw wrote:ask your hater buddies


Mod Says: Hater is not appropriate as a term for someone with a different opinion. In this context it is closer to flaming.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby human909 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:14 am

So who is coming? I'll be riding and enjoying.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/prote ... .html#poll
Protesting cyclists to make Merri, their hair blowin' in the wind

Bicycle advocates for abolishing mandatory helmets: (from left) Raquel Fajardo, Mark Van-delft, Arwen Birch and Peng Au-Yong. Photo: Wayne Taylor
VICTORIA was first in the world to make bike helmets compulsory, but now a small but determined group of cyclists want to ride like it's 1989. Bareheaded.

The Freestyle Cyclists, with fewer than a dozen core members but hundreds of supporters, are planning an act of civil disobedience next month with a helmet-free ride along Merri Creek. The group's petition has attracted more than 600 signatures, calling for bike helmets to be made optional in Australia and New Zealand.

The group's spokesman, Alan Todd, said helmets gave cyclists a false sense of security and provided only limited protection in an accident.

Before the ride on October 6, supporters will gather at CERES Community Environment Park in East Brunswick to hear from Chris Rissel, a professor of public health at the University of Sydney.

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He says mountain bikers and others are capable of deciding for themselves what kind of cycling requires a helmet.

''It's hurting the people who might ride but don't,'' he said, ''and they are exactly the people we want to get more active.''

Raquel Fajardo, 27, just wants to feel the wind in her hair. She wears a helmet only to avoid a fine and says making helmets optional would help cycling shed its dangerous image.

Helmets became compulsory in Victoria on July 1, 1990, and cyclists without a helmet today risk a $176 fine.

VicRoads' director of road user safety, James Holgate, said a 1999 review found helmets reduced head and brain injuries by 88 per cent and injuries to upper and mid-facial areas by 65 per cent.

''Helmets are designed so that the foam material they are made from spreads the force of an impact and absorbs the energy, greatly reducing the risk and severity of head injury in the instance of a crash,'' he said.

The head of neurosurgery at The Alfred hospital, Professor Jeffrey Rosenfeld, said dumping compulsory helmets would be a retrograde step.

''I'm the one who sits at the hospital looking after the victims of road trauma,'' he said. ''There are many cyclists among them, and I can't help but think that if they weren't wearing helmets their injuries would be significantly worse.'' He said the idea that compulsory helmets dissuaded people from healthy exercise was ''specious'' and he called the October 6 ride a publicity stunt and a bad example.

Several studies were pending on the effectiveness of helmets in preventing more subtle brain injuries, but they indisputably protected the skull in an accident.

However, a study published last year by Norway's Institute of Transport Economics found previous research had been biased towards older stack-hats and that modern soft-shell helmets offered less protection.

City of Yarra councillor Jackie Fristacky, who will attend the rally but will not ride for fear of a fine, said mandatory helmets were largely to blame for the sluggish take-up of Melbourne's public bike scheme.

She said in Dublin and Montreal helmets remained obligatory on the outskirts but not in the centre where speed limits were usually lower. Figures from the Transport Accident Commission show that in the past decade 57 cyclists were killed in Melbourne, compared with 40 in rural Victoria.

Victoria Police were aware of the planned helmet-free ride. A spokesman said police respected people's right to protest lawfully but would monitor the situation, taking action ''when appropriate''.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/prote ... z27aLWEVb1
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby DavidS » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:18 am

PawPaw, serious question: why are you so obsessed with making us all wear helmets? Repealing MHLs doesn't stop you wearing a helmet, why do you want to force your beliefs on to the rest of us?

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby human909 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:35 am

We all have our various reasons for contributing to this debate. PawPaw's seem mostly around trolling and mockery and think many of are starting to realise this and have largely stopped responding.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby KenGS » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:43 am

human909 wrote:So who is coming? I'll be riding and enjoying.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/prote ... .html#poll

I'm not sure I can bear to watch the carnage - let alone be a victim of it.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby greyhoundtom » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:16 am

I would happily go, it’s just that I don’t think I could handle the worry in my GLW eyes when the penalty notice arrived.

But then I guess I won’t be the only one that stays away because of the fear of having to pay a fine.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby human909 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:33 am

greyhoundtom wrote:I would happily go, it’s just that I don’t think I could handle the worry in my GLW eyes when the penalty notice arrived.

But then I guess I won’t be the only one that stays away because of the fear of having to pay a fine.


Walk your bike if necessary.
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