Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thread)

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby jules21 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:34 pm

does NZ have MHLs?
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by BNA » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:20 pm

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby human909 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:20 pm

jules21 wrote:while there is no specific link to cycling, it is consistent with growing evidence that head trauma is a far more serious problem than has been historically acknowledged.

I haven't seen anybody in the 5201 posts in this thread suggest that head trauma is extremely serious. But claims that head trauma is serious is just as likely to support MHL for everybody once they get out of bed as it is for cycling.

jules21 wrote:does NZ have MHLs?

Yes. (for cycling not for getting out of bed)
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:19 pm

Program on the ABC from BBC a few years ago about Risk. In it a doctor quoted the great fears about ecstasy at rave parties - in the past 6 months 2 people had died from ecstasy abuse. He also quoted that in the past 6 months something like 50 people had died from the effects of heroin..... and something like several hundred had died from alcohol's effects. Every year 20 people die getting out of bed.... 30 people die walking down the stairs.

Helmets for all, I say :P
Last edited by il padrone on Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:21 pm

Xplora wrote:
jules21 wrote:NZ brain injuries at 'epidemic' levels

while there is no specific link to cycling, it is consistent with growing evidence that head trauma is a far more serious problem than has been historically acknowledged.

Could it be that NZ has a reputation for extreme sports and so forth, that contributes to this?

Thugby ???
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:03 pm

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:11 pm

.....and despite all that, the serious head injuries still occur :o
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby jules21 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:15 pm

il padrone wrote:.....and despite all that, the serious head injuries still occur :o

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Comedian » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:57 pm

ZepinAtor wrote:Sadly it's not likely to change in the next 10 years unless they ban cars or run out of fuel to power them.


A little cross topic... but if you read some of the information from ASPO that is actually pretty likely to happen. Probably sooner than 99% of people think, too.

When we end up with very high priced fuel and/or rationing sometime in the next decade I think that will actually be the catalyst for change on the helmet law front. You'll have a heap of people that currently do not ride, and do not consider themselves "cyclists" that will be forced to use bicycles for transport. What's more.. I think they won't stand for the showtime we put up with now and will demand that cycling be made easier and more convenient. One of these things will be repealing the helmet law like the rest of the civilised world.

At the same time politicians will be forced to rush bicycle infrastructure into place at a time when the cost of construction will be at an all time high. It's likely there will be temporary measures like traffic lanes claimed and separated. It won't be a fun time but hopefully my family will be somewhat more able to cope than most. :shock:
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby greyhoundtom » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:47 pm

News Release 8th November 2012
Cairns, Qld

An oil confererence in Cairns was told today that Governments, businesses and communities should be preparing now for future global oil shortages. Bruce Robinson, Convenor of the Australian Association for the Study of Peak Oil, outlined the evidence that Peak Oil will probably occur in the near future.

There is no good evidence supporting the hope that world oil production can continually to expand to meet ever-increasing demand from China, India and other developing nations. But there are many reassuring statements, like those offered before the Global Financial Crisis, that all is well and business will be as usual.

A small (20%) increase in US oil production has been hyped as solving the US and world fuel problems. But even now, with consumption falling due to the recession, the US produces only 41% of the oil it consumes.

The hype about US shale oil is obscuring the bald fact that, like the Bass Strait oilfields, the output from many of the world’s super-giant oilfields is in serious decline and is only just being matched by new small fields being discovered and brought into production now.

Decision-makers must tackle the serious problems caused by the human tendency to believe the good news and to ignore warnings and unfavourable forecasts. “The Optimism Bias” is one description of this hazard for forward planning.

Failure to plan for the probability of future oil shortages may well prove to be more serious than the failure to heed the warnings of the gross financial risks which led to the GFC.

Mr Robinson recommended that reviews like the 2007 Cairns Oil Vulnerability study and work by the Gold Coast Council be expanded and updated as models for business and government. A 2008 CSIRO Future Fuels Forum economic model had one scenario of $8/litre fuel by 2018.

There are many options to recognise and reduce our oil vulnerability. The most crucial is to start discussing the probability that global oil shortages may arrive soon, perhaps within the next five to ten years.

For further information, contact Bruce Robinson, Convenor, ASPO-Australia, http://www.ASPO-Australia.org.au , 0427 398 708 [email protected]

I had no idea that the possibility of an oil shortage was looking at such a short timeline. :shock:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby jules21 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:51 pm

greyhoundtom wrote:
News Release 8th November 2012

The hype about US shale oil is obscuring the bald fact that, like the Bass Strait oilfields, the output from many of the world’s super-giant oilfields is in serious decline and is only just being matched by new small fields being discovered and brought into production now.

this is misleading. shale oil has 2 problems:
1. it is only marginally economical to extract at current oil prices. that will clearly change as crude oil reserves continue to be depleted.
2. its extraction is environmentally disastrous.

on the "plus" side, there are vast reserves of shale oil and there is no shortage of it. the question is - how badly do we want to get at it?
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby KenGS » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:00 pm

jules21 wrote:
greyhoundtom wrote:
News Release 8th November 2012

The hype about US shale oil is obscuring the bald fact that, like the Bass Strait oilfields, the output from many of the world’s super-giant oilfields is in serious decline and is only just being matched by new small fields being discovered and brought into production now.

this is misleading. shale oil has 2 problems:
1. it is only marginally economical to extract at current oil prices. that will clearly change as crude oil reserves continue to be depleted.
2. its extraction is environmentally disastrous.

on the "plus" side, there are vast reserves of shale oil and there is no shortage of it. the question is - how badly do we want to get at it?

And shale oil production declines at rates of around 40% after the first year. In the US the average shale oil well produces around 140 barrels per day compared to conventional wells that produce 100,000 bpd
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:24 pm

Comedian wrote:At the same time politicians will be forced to rush bicycle infrastructure into place at a time when the cost of construction will be at an all time high. It's likely there will be temporary measures like traffic lanes claimed and separated.

What cost of construction? All that is needed is a bit of paint and lane re-alignment :idea: .

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Comedian » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:59 pm

il padrone wrote:
Comedian wrote:At the same time politicians will be forced to rush bicycle infrastructure into place at a time when the cost of construction will be at an all time high. It's likely there will be temporary measures like traffic lanes claimed and separated.

What cost of construction? All that is needed is a bit of paint and lane re-alignment :idea: .

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Those are the temporary measures I spoke of. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Never mind what they are going to do with those stupid tunnels...
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby damhooligan » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:10 pm

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/art ... _news.html

Sad story, a 3 year old riding his bike was ran over by speeding p-plater.
Injuries to legs, but is stable now.

Followed by a police officer saying ;
"We don't hand out fines for not wearing helmets or speeding just for fun, we do it to stop people from getting hurt and to learn good habits."

Really ?? you had to mention helmets... ???
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby jules21 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:20 am

damhooligan wrote:Followed by a police officer saying ;
"We don't hand out fines for.. speeding just for fun, we do it to stop people from getting hurt and to learn good habits."*

yep, that driver can think about the permanent injuries he's caused to that toddler every time he looks at his bank balance and realises it's $200 down on what it should be. let that be a lesson :roll:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:14 am

Recent study on the operations and effectiveness of Melbourne and Brisbane Bikeshare schemes

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“Participants who had not used CityCycle frequently described mandatory helmet laws as a reason for not using the scheme. Focus group participants felt the requirement to use a helmet reduced the spontaneity often associated with public bike share scheme use.”



Gotta love it that the Qld road safety research centre is called CARRS-Q :roll:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Biffidus » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:48 am

Indeed. Even if you have a helmet, who wants to carry it round everywhere?

How many of you would cycle to a party, business meeting or just into town to meet some friends at the pub? Using a car for these things is easier for most people because of traffic, distance and having to wear a helmet. Of those factors, the helmet problem is the only one that doesn't require significant infrastructure changes. Why not start there?
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby DavidS » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:27 pm

jules21 wrote:
il padrone wrote:.....and despite all that, the serious head injuries still occur :o

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il padrone wrote:.....and despite all that, the serious head injuries still occur :o


Do I need to say any more?

Il Padrone, that pic would make a fabulous poster.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Philipthelam » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:59 pm

Biffidus wrote:Indeed. Even if you have a helmet, who wants to carry it round everywhere?

How many of you would cycle to a party, business meeting or just into town to meet some friends at the pub? Using a car for these things is easier for most people because of traffic, distance and having to wear a helmet. Of those factors, the helmet problem is the only one that doesn't require significant infrastructure changes. Why not start there?


The helmet stays with the bike. Pretty simple really. Put the helmet on and when you lock/park your bike then wrap the lock around the strap. Done. No need to carry it around everywhere.

Bike share is different. Carrying a helmet into the city/place to where the bike share is and then having to take it home after your ride is inconvenient.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Philipthelam » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:00 pm

Would you wear a helmet if you ride on the road amongst many other bigger vehicles?
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Philipthelam » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:20 pm

il padrone wrote:If you really don't care....... what are you doing posting on this thread ???


Because I don't agree with what you have said.

If you look from PAGE 1 of this thread you see the same anti-MHL people commenting. After that you also see the random people come in that disagree with these anti-MHL people. The same group of anti-MHL people swarm onto the random until he stops posting. Then the anti-MHL people camp here once more waiting for another person to pounce on...

So what have you done in the last 4 years you have camped on this thread? Actually done something about what you feel so strongly about? Or do you have other motives for posting in this thread?
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Xplora » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:17 pm

Philipthelam wrote:Bike share is different. ..having to take it home after your ride is inconvenient.

So just confirming that this is precisely what Biffidus said. Good.

I don't have a choice about riding on the road, or the share path, or the park... the only place I can ride my bike without a helmet, legally, is my backyard. I don't ride MTBs, and I wouldn't ride singletrack without a lid.

You're entitled to disagree. But your points are subject to response, this isn't a court where the judge decides who is right and wrong. I personally have completed changed my views as a result of this thread, and a lot of my thinking and approach is the result of ongoing comments and posting by Padrone.

It is interesting to me that you have noticed that the same people are commenting. You'll see AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN the various people supporting MHLs that I've torn to pieces with no further response. I presume that is because they think I'm correct. They had a lot to say before my responses. :lol: I don't see antiMHL people giving up because they actually believe in what they have to say. I believe in a free country and MHL is taking a big dump on that freedom on the main hobby and transport option for me these days. If you aren't affected, well that's great. God help you if something you want to do is made illegal without any justification or evidence.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby DavidS » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:08 pm

Philipthelam wrote:Would you wear a helmet if you ride on the road amongst many other bigger vehicles?


Gee, until MHLs I did, so I see no reason why I wouldn't do the same now especially since the traffic is slower and the vehicles have better brakes, handling and suspension and given the road toll is much lower now, indicating safer road conditions (less drunk drivers, more enforcement of speeding and red light running), etc, etc, etc. So my answer, as someone who rides every day on roads I share with much bigger vehicles (I am a commuter cyclist), I would say yes, I would ride on the same roads without a lump of foam on my head.

But there is another point here isn't there? Nobody who opposes MHLs is asking that helmets be banned, what we are asking for is the freedom to make the choice for ourselves. If you don't feel safe sharing a road with large vehicles without a helmet then wear a helmet. If I do feel safe sharing the road with large vehicles I don't wear a helmet, except . . . I don't have that choice, so until the laws are repealed the question is redundant.

While we're on the topic, these large vehicles you talk of, do they include maybe cars, trucks, even trams? Well your flimsy lump of foam is little match for these big vehicles so, again, your question is redundant because bicycle helmets are no match for a large heavy vehicle. Maybe the question for you should be whether you wear a motorcycle helmet when sharing the road with large vehicles, because that's the only helmet which would give you the protection you need if hit by a large vehicle.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:14 pm

DavidS wrote:Maybe the question for you should be whether you wear a motorcycle helmet when sharing the road with large vehicles, because that's the only helmet which would give you the protection you need if hit by a large vehicle.

Maybe...

Lots of motorcyclists don't survive, even with such a full helmet on when involved in collisions with such vehicles :(
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