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Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:02 pm
by im_no_pro
Update: New Sub Forum added to cater for cycling safety discussions, so no longer a 'one and only helmet thread'


Welcome to the helmet thread. All discussion relating to the use (mandatory or otherwise) of helmets belongs here. All other new MHL (or similar) threads will be closed and a link given redirecting members to this thread. Existing threads will eventually be redirected to here if they continue to get traffic.

If you feel your discussion warrants a seperate topic, please PM AU bicycles or a Moderator with details prior to posting your thread, or it will be locked. Obvious exceptions are in the Marketplace or Bike & Gear Review sections.

Standard forum guidelines apply in this thread, no flaming, no personal attacks etc etc. If you havent read the guidelines or need a refresher, you can find them here. If you feel a post has breached the guidelines, please do not respond as this is where flaming often begins. Instead, click on the report post Image button at the bottom of the post and the moderators will take appropriate action where required.

Note: Given how heated helmet threads have become in the past, breaches of the guidelines in this thread will be given very little tolerance. Please think before you post.

Edit: Also see Forum Announcement here

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:09 pm
by damhooligan
good idea.

I wil start .
Helmet use should not be mandatory.

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:45 pm
by }SkOrPn--7
My parents took it upon them self so make Helmets Mandatory when I was born that was 50 years ago been wearing it since every day............................ :wink:

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:53 pm
by damhooligan
}SkOrPn--7 wrote:My parents took it upon them self so make Helmets Mandatory when I was born that was 50 years ago been wearing it since every day............................ :wink:


here is what a professor say about them mandatory laws..


ProfessorChrisRissel wrote:I do not advocate for repealing seat-belt legislation, because the evidence is very, very strong that they reduced head injuries in the community.

This is not the case with bicycle helmets. I agree that no one study answers all the questions one might have about the legislation, and my study did not attempt to do this.

I agree helmets offer some protection to the head at an individual level, but the evidence indicates that the effects of legislation are not apparent at the community level over time. A policy that affects the entire community should show effects at that level.

At the time Professor McDermott was with the Victorian Road Trauma Committee there were many serious problems with road injuries, and the desire to improve bicyclist safety was admirable. However, with hindsight, we can see that there were many other strategies and programs that improved the injury rates, but the helmet legislation was a negligible contribution.

At that time we didn't have the enormous problems with obesity, diabetes and renal failure that we do now. We know that helmets represent a barrier to people cycling and the health effects of more people cycling and being active far outweigh the injury.

One final point is about the way we talk about risk. The case-control studies that indicate that cyclists with head injuries admitted to hospital without helmets might have an increased-odds ratio of likelihood of injury of 20 or 30 per cent compared to wearing helmets make the risk seem higher than they really are.

The absolute risk of any individual on a bicycle getting a head injury might be in the order of one in a million, and even doubling the risk (an odds ratio of 2.0) to two in a million, it is still tiny. The known risks of getting overweight or developing diabetes from inactivity are many times more significant that the injury risk.

If helmet legislation was such a good idea, why hasn't the rest of the world followed suit? The fact is that in the countries with high cycling rates, Australia's helmet legislation is a joke.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... site=email

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:04 pm
by }SkOrPn--7
damhooligan wrote:
}SkOrPn--7 wrote:My parents took it upon them self so make Helmets Mandatory when I was born that was 50 years ago been wearing it since every day............................ :wink:


here is what a professor say about them mandatory laws..




Damhool my comment was below the belt humour it was a surgical decision I had no control over.................. :D

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:19 pm
by damhooligan
}SkOrPn--7 wrote:
damhooligan wrote:
}SkOrPn--7 wrote:My parents took it upon them self so make Helmets Mandatory when I was born that was 50 years ago been wearing it since every day............................ :wink:


here is what a professor say about them mandatory laws..




Damhool my comment was below the belt humour it was a surgical decision I had no control over.................. :D


I understand, i was trying to start a serous discussion here, sorry won't happen again..Image

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Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:28 pm
by }SkOrPn--7
Don't be sorry Damhool it's cool............ :D IDGARA about helmet discussions so I was simply placing some of my poor humour into a thread I don't care about so it's me that needs to keep out allowing folks to continue with the pages of dribble.

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:36 pm
by damhooligan
}SkOrPn--7 wrote:Don't be sorry Damhool it's cool............ :D IDGARA about helmet discussions so I was simply placing some of my poor humour into a thread I don't care about so it's me that needs to keep out allowing folks to continue with the pages of dribble.


nah it's ok i love humor.... :mrgreen:
And pineapple... :mrgreen:

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:44 pm
by open roader
I think helmets should not be mandatory

BUT

I also think people should take responsibilty for thier own actions - I don't want to see any more 'work' for the legal fraternity

I also want to see Australia's capital cities (and others) having successful on street rental bike cultures - mandatory helmet laws are a major hindrance to the uptake by tourists and other visitors to CBD areas who want to hire a bike on impulse.

I'm so indoctriated in helmet wearing now that I reckon I'd feel vulnerable on my bike/s without one.......... :|

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:45 pm
by Spork!
Humor, pineapples and helmets?
Hmmm....
Image
:P

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:52 pm
by mikesbytes
damhooligan wrote:here is what a professor say about them mandatory laws..
ProfessorChrisRissel wrote:I do not advocate for repealing seat-belt legislation, because the evidence is very, very strong that they reduced head injuries in the community.
This is not the case with bicycle helmets.....


This is what Chris Rissel said earlier this year after trying to hold my wheel on the mad mile;
ProfessorChrisRissel wrote:Boy can you sprint Mike


I've ridden off and on with Chris over the last few years and I've never seen him ride a bike without a helmet on.

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:57 pm
by il padrone
mikesbytes wrote:I've ridden off and on with Chris over the last few years and I've never seen him ride a bike without a helmet on.

Well of course. I don't know him but he's a Professor and I'm sure is law-abiding. As it's been the law for 20 years you'd kind of expect that he does wear a helmet.

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:40 pm
by Zynster
Whether or not helmets are mandatory doesn't bother me. I'd wear one anyway. I can't get helmet hair cause I got no hair. :D

I can't understand people who are pro-helmet laws though. A dead cyclist doesn't cost the gov as much as one who survived cause he was wearing a helmet. I'm all for Darwinian evolution doing it's job.

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:41 pm
by damonik
In before it turns nasty.

Image

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Stop looking at me like that, they're wearing helmet, it's topical!

Edit: First page still, YES!

FIST PUMP

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Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:34 pm
by Kalgrm
I'll sum up the arguments here:

1 - Helmets protect the head during a fall and thus make riding safer.

2 - Helmets are a barrier which deters people from riding, and since cycling is good for general health, mandatory helmet laws are bad for people in general.

3 - Helmet threads make people angry.

Cheers,
Graeme

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:38 pm
by Mulger bill
[mod helmet]I'm glad this idea is up and running, it will make life a lot easier for everyone who cares little for the topic, myself included.

I would request that since this is serious thread for serious posters that only serious posts be posted, seriously.

Also, I doubt that many of the mod squad will spend much time here, therefore any participants should kindly self moderate and if anything should slip through that participants notify the moderators by means of the "report post" button.

Finally, who thinks this thread should be stickied?

Shaun
[/mod helmet]

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:13 pm
by Baldy
Kalgrm wrote:2 - Helmets are a barrier which deters people from riding, and since cycling is good for general health, mandatory helmet laws are bad for people in general.


[flameproof helmet on]
Is that a chicken or the egg kinda deal? What came first, the diabetes or the acquired brain injury.

I think the only way that argument would make sense would be if riding a bike was the only possible form of exercise available to the people who dont like wearing a helmet.
[flameproof helmet off]

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:14 pm
by whitey
This helmet thread ROCKS. Much better than all the other crap ones. Keep em coming....

Oh yeah, I dont have an issue with helmets being mandatory. They keeps the brains in when you fall over. Massive win IMO.

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:17 pm
by whitey
I mean who wants this to happen when they fall over.

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Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:40 pm
by drubie
I forgot which thread I was in re: capslock.

Image

How about this one? It has a safety light!

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:46 pm
by msn
Y' know, the mods seem to have such a serious job to do here. Sometimes I think they'd like an each way bet.
Mulger bill wrote:[Compulsory mod helmet]I'm ......
....stickied?
Shaun
[/Voluntary mod helmet]

Fixed it for you Shaun :wink:

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:51 pm
by leeh
A helmet is a device that has the function of reducing injuries. Would it be satisfactory (or even better) if another device, that even more efectively prevents injury, was worn instead? For example, a fluoro vest as worn by EVERY person who works near a roadside. Truck drivers, local government workers, postal service etc etc. It's compulsory. It's probably been found, by the workers compensation insurance companies to be conclusively effective too. How about scrapping the Compulsory Helmet law and introducing a Compulsory High Visibility Clothing Law. For everyone within 1 metre of a road.

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:37 pm
by rustguard
Baldy wrote:I think the only way that argument would make sense would be if riding a bike was the only possible form of exercise available to the people who dont like wearing a helmet.
[flameproof helmet off]

you imply in this statement that cycling is only for exercise

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:04 am
by The Womble
No worse than some implying that cycling is limited primarily to commuting

Re: The one (and only) HELMET THREAD

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:10 am
by rustguard
The Womble wrote:No worse than some implying that cycling is limited primarily to commuting

well if you left out the word primarily it would be no worse but as it stands it is worse.