Simple things to make cycling better and safer

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Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:15 pm

There is a post elsewhere about a tragic death arising which may have been contributed to by a safety barrier. I commented on what I saw as deficiencies in such barriers but this got me tothinking we need a thread for comment and suggestions onthe sorts of things that could make life for cyclists easier and safer. Perhaps a place even where ideas for worthy agitation and activism.

So, I will start the ballrolling in the post immediately following.


(Suggestion - Change the Subject heading of your post to reflect the specific issue.)
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:22 pm

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Visible movable barriers

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:22 pm

Moveable barriers serve a useful purpose. But by their nature they can be sited in dangerous or less than ideal places, just waiting to catch the unwary or the plain unlucky. (http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=35669&p=522758#p522758)

However, I reckon that reflectors or reflective paint would seem to be the minimum requirement for these barriers. Unpainted concrete is one of the easiest things not to see even if a rider does have lights.

I'd extend the same simple requirement to plastic barriers. Paint them with reflecting irridescent paint, or glue reflectors on them.

Perhaps BTA and others could lobby to have something written into relevant standards.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby jet-ski » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:55 pm

If those barriers are still there, maybe someone should take to them with some reflective paint? where can you purchase reflective paint and is it really expensive?
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:31 pm

One for the safety section methinks Colin, over it goes.

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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby trailgumby » Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:05 pm

Reinstate fuel excise / tax / duty indexing.

The biggest thing that will help cycling safety is for the price of fuel to reach Euopean levels - it will cull cars and boost the rate of cycling uptake.

I'd also like ot see the import duty discount for 4WD's removed. Genuine farmers (those who have primary production income in their tax returns) can then be given a rebate so as to restore the original purpose of the discount.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby russellgarrard » Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:14 pm

I even floated the idea that the government should pay cyclists to ride, SERIOUSLY! For example, we used to have a state 8c fuel subsidy in QLD, I proposed at an average fuel usage of 10L/100km. That for every 100Km's someone rides, they get paid 80c.

The kicker? The qld government sells BSO's at no profit, same with helmets and provides a free helmet every year. Though...the cost of the helmet can be paid through to your local bicycle shop if you want something a bit better.

---------------

Still following? Basically, pay cyclist's 8c for every 10KM's they travel, 80c for every 100KM's, $8.00 for every 1000KM's, $80.00 for every 10000KM's. Maybe even look at increasing it to something along the lines of 20c. Why? If people work out they get paid to ride to work, the shops etc, they are suddenly using bike paths at alot less cost to the government than roads, they start saving money on healthcare etc.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby high_tea » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:29 pm

trailgumby wrote:Reinstate fuel excise / tax / duty indexing.

The biggest thing that will help cycling safety is for the price of fuel to reach Euopean levels - it will cull cars and boost the rate of cycling uptake.


Sorry, I don't follow. We have fuel excise now. What are you suggesting should be reinstated?

I agree with the basic premise, mind you. It's got some implications for certain people that I'm not wild about; I wonder if congestion charging is a fairer way of making motoring more expensive.

I also think that periodic driving retests would be a good thing and one that might have a similar effect.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby The Womble » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:39 pm

Lets see if I get a response this time.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby rkelsen » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:55 pm

I'm not convinced that making motoring more expensive will achieve anything except to further anger motorists.

Making it harder to 'earn' a license in the first place would be a good starting point. Then, as Womble mentioned, mandatory retesting and renewal every five years.
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Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby Comedian » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:35 pm

A friends dad was injured on his bike at roadworks. No one is really sure what happened, other than that at a roadworks site a temporary barrier picket went into his eye and caused major damage.

He is ok now - albeit he has lost an eye. It's very sad. He was touch and go for a while. Every time i go past temporary fencing I flinch. :(
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby Quinns Rocks Roadie » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:25 pm

Interesting point, traffic cones placed out at night must have a reflective band afaik, and plastic bollards come standard with reflective bands.
I dont know the regs on barriers, worth finding out.
Star pickets must have a plastic protective top cap fitted at all times in a work site situation, and I assume public places also.

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Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby Comedian » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:36 pm

Quinns Rocks Roadie wrote:Interesting point, traffic cones placed out at night must have a reflective band afaik, and plastic bollards come standard with reflective bands.
I dont know the regs on barriers, worth finding out.
Star pickets must have a plastic protective top cap fitted at all times in a work site situation, and I assume public places also.

Eric.

Maybe they sould have caps but often they don't :(
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:53 pm

The Womble wrote:...ANNND all L platers to log 50 hrs on a bicycle before their P's test


I reckon that, instead of too easily giving offenders extraordinary licenses to get to and from work, the courts should instead tell them to get a bike. I'd even be happy if my tax dollars went to a court owned fleet of bikes and required accessories.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby jules21 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:56 am

trailgumby wrote: Reinstate fuel excise / tax / duty indexing.

The biggest thing that will help cycling safety is for the price of fuel to reach Euopean levels - it will cull cars and boost the rate of cycling uptake.

+ 1, although this is not a simple measure. reforming road pricing is a major task that will incur the wrath of a large proportion of the motoring public, requiring a lot of political courage, as sir humphrey appleby used to say whenever he wanted to dissuade the PM from doing something :)

it doesn't need to be by fuel excise. arguably a better way is to charge by road usage, such as is already done on toll roads (usually with the desired effect!). but either way, i agree, it is a key measure in encouraging a more sustainable transport system. the problem is, when people (motorists) are getting something at a discount, they are unlikely to agree to pay the full cost.

trailgumby wrote: I'd also like ot see the import duty discount for 4WD's removed. Genuine farmers (those who have primary production income in their tax returns) can then be given a rebate so as to restore the original purpose of the discount.

tariffs are so low now that it makes little difference anymore - the days of 4wds getting big tariff discounts are long gone. sales of big 4wds have dropped dramatically in recent years, due to fuel price hikes.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby sogood » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:14 am

rkelsen wrote:I'm not convinced that making motoring more expensive will achieve anything except to further anger motorists.

It'll just help hyperinflate the economy and everyone will suffer. There are smarter and sensible ways to those objectives.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby russellgarrard » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:41 am

The irony? These d**kheads whinging and whining about 'Ohhhhhh, don't put high-rise apartments in CBD's and inner areas, it'll be hell when everyone trys to go to work at the same time...the roads will be clogged'...don't realise that you need everything close together to promote cycling, which ironically would take traffic off the roads!
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby jules21 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:46 am

that won't take traffic off the roads. traffic volume is determined by motorists' patience threshold for commute time. roads will always be saturated with traffic, to the extent to which motorists are willing to wait in traffic. this is premised on two factors:
1. motorists' preference for driving over other transport modes, and
2. the cost of motoring remaining tolerable.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:48 am

jules21 wrote:2. the cost of motoring remaining tolerable.

The problem with increasing the cost of motoring is that it will affect most of the population. So any government that increases the cost of motoring to 'intolerable' levels will decisively be thrown out. One side of Australian politics would never do this simply because it would be bad for business.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby jules21 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:45 pm

that's not the objective though (which i wasn't clear on). the objective is to create incentives for those motorists who make poor decisions about their means of transport to make better ones. principally, that means motorists who insist on commuting in congested traffic, despite the existence of viable alternatives (which requires more investment in public transport - that needs to be done for it to work).

it doesn't need to be a general increase in the cost of motoring. london has a crude version of this - the inner city congestion charge, but there are better and more sophisticated options. the logic behind this is well accepted amongst experts - the Henry Tax Review recommended it and its definitely in the interests of cycling.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby jet-ski » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:00 pm

Some kind of congestion tax would be good but the inner city councils will object if they start losing parking revenue!

For WA it would be great if they built some more rail. It's like the Mandurah line was completed and government sat back and said 'yeah we've done all we need to for the next decade'.

Would love to see the Bayswater - Airport - High Wycombe line.... our fly-in-fly-out workers would love it and it might just help the parking issues at the airport...diverting road widening/extension funds to new rail would make a huge difference but would require significant political will.

Rail is great for cycling because it allows a back up plan for cyclists...
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby Cinder » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:06 pm

Spend all the revenue from safety ***cough*** cameras on cycling infrastructure, motorists will feel compelled to use what so much of their hard earned has paid for... :twisted:

On a more serious note...

A change in the general public mentality towards other people?

On a more realistic note...

More cycling lanes that don't end at intersections (just where you really need them) would be nice. Or, when it is unavoidable, "bike boxes" at the front of the line and specific bike lights to give bikes a few seconds to clear the intersection and get back into their bike lane before the cars lights go green. Sure they exist somewhere here, but the need to exist more.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby Cinder » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:08 pm

jet-ski wrote:Some kind of congestion tax would be good but the inner city councils will object if they start losing parking revenue!


Gotta say, I'm kind of coming around to this idea, I used to be very much anti congestion tax, but now, I'm of the opinion that it may help. Not a lot, but it's something.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby The Womble » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:53 pm

Cinder wrote:
jet-ski wrote:Some kind of congestion tax would be good but the inner city councils will object if they start losing parking revenue!


Gotta say, I'm kind of coming around to this idea, I used to be very much anti congestion tax, but now, I'm of the opinion that it may help. Not a lot, but it's something.

Can anyone find figure for Londons Cbd pre & post congestion tax?
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby CommuRider » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:59 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_con ... ate_impact

Congestion charges would only work in Sydney if to fill in the vacuum they actually improved the public transport infrastructure. Without the improvement in the latter, most people here would only see it as a gouging tax designed to fill in the coffers of govt without any appreciable improvement. Unlike London which has a very good public transport infrastructure and they have a more extensive tube and bus system, Sydney is leaning towards the LA design of a city.

Interesting graph from wiki in the increase of bike use as a result of the charge in London

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Changes in the counts of bicycles at October 2008 compared to October 2001. Red dots show a reductions and blue dots increases.

The white boundary in the middle is where the congestion takes place. I guess there may be some people who aren't taking public transport are driving in just outside the boundary and cycling into the congestion charge zone.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:26 pm

jules21 wrote:the objective is to create incentives for those motorists who make poor decisions about their means of transport to make better ones.

Fair enough, but do you think they'll see it that way? I don't. I think they'll take it as an affront, or an erosion of their rights.

Motorists tend to be very angry people. They probably do need to get out and breathe some fresh air to clear their heads, but this ain't gonna do it.

I love the suggestion of allocating revenue from speed cameras to cycling infrastructure. 8)
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