Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby The Womble » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:42 pm

Its not so much a question of whether motorists are gonna have to deal with this. This question is simply "when?"

So they wont get the choice regardless :mrgreen:
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by BNA » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:59 pm

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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby Oxford » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:59 pm

when I see topics like this I do think that fuel in Australia is far too cheap.

when I see people who are perfectly healthy at my local shopping centre get in their car, drive it from one car park to another carpark across the road just to go to those shops when there is a pedestrian crossing that they have to drive through that links both carparks, then that driver didn't have to think. fuel should be at a price where a driver will before they turn the key make a conscious decision about whether there is an alternative.

another example a mate told me about when he was camping. a camper got in his 4wd, started it up, drove it 30 metres to the toilet block, did his business, got back in and drove back to his camping spot. fuel is too cheap when some one thinks that is OK.

this example is laughable. the local swiming leisure centre is 800 metres from where I live and parking at the time was at a premium as the carpark was very small. the woman across the road who had children at the same school as mine and I were both going to the carnival. she had no other children to transport, just a chair and umbrella for shade. she got in her V8 landcruiser and left at the same time I did, I walked. she drove to the leisure centre, no parks left, so started looking for on street parking, which she eventually found about 400metres from the centre (on the road she had just driven from home), yes that's right only 400 metres from her home, but she parked, got out her gear and walked up the same hill I did, getting there after I did even though we left at the same time. fuel is too cheap when people make decisions like that.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby CommuRider » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:09 pm

Oxford wrote:another example a mate told me about when he was camping. a camper got in his 4wd, started it up, drove it 30 metres to the toilet block, did his business, got back in and drove back to his camping spot. fuel is too cheap when some one thinks that is OK.


ROFL. That is totally ridiculous.

When fuel hits the $2/L barrier AND STAYS THERE then I predict people will start changing their lifestyle and driving behaviour. Like getting on a bike. It worked for the Dutch in response to the oil crisis in the 1970s.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby russellgarrard » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:37 pm

One thing I don't understand...is for every litre of fuel I don't use by cycling, another motorist can use, I am making fuel CHEAPER for them! I am also reducing pollution, congestion etc...I've also learnt BP service stations hate cyclists :| For a company that prides itself on finding alternative fuels I don't get it
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:55 pm

bendertiger wrote:I've also learnt BP service stations hate cyclists

I'm sorry, I can't let this one go. How did you learn this???
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby blkmcs » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:59 pm

rkelsen wrote:...Motorists tend to be very angry people. ...


I'm sorry, I can't let this one go. How did you learn this?
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:10 pm

blkmcs wrote:
rkelsen wrote:...Motorists tend to be very angry people. ...

I'm sorry, I can't let this one go. How did you learn this?

:lol: I guess I asked for that.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby jules21 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:16 pm

rkelsen wrote:
jules21 wrote:the objective is to create incentives for those motorists who make poor decisions about their means of transport to make better ones.

Fair enough, but do you think they'll see it that way? I don't. I think they'll take it as an affront, or an erosion of their rights.

of course they will, people always hate higher prices. but that can't be the criteria for a decision. the point is, road space is a commodity with variable value. at present, people are entitled to consume that commodity at the same price for high and low value road space. that's inefficient, it's like making retailers price everything in the supermarket the same - obviously all the valuable stuff gets looted and the cheap stuff gets left alone. that would be nonsense, but we do exactly that with motoring, with the same crazy results.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby russellgarrard » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:17 pm

Where the hell did my post go...

Basically, I went into the service station because they had the nearest phone. I had no credit on my mobile (sucks being a pensioner). I wanted to call the local police in regards to an incident involving a motorist. They told me 'There is a payphone down the street'. I told them 'I don't have any coins on me, I'm a cyclist, I have an eftpos card, do you want me to purchase something and put it back on the shelf to pay for the call'. They then told me again, 'Go use the payphone down the street'.

I now make a point not to help BP with shoplifting or fuel drive off's. They have lost more money because of that rather than the few cents a phone call would of cost them...suckers!
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby rkelsen » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:50 pm

jules21 wrote:of course they will, people always hate higher prices. but that can't be the criteria for a decision.

I agree. It shouldn't be. Unfortunately, though, politicians are running the show.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby Max » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:13 am

Oxford wrote:another example a mate told me about when he was camping. a camper got in his 4wd, started it up, drove it 30 metres to the toilet block, did his business, got back in and drove back to his camping spot. fuel is too cheap when some one thinks that is OK.


Wow. Just... wow. For some more examples of frivolous car use, check out this Bike Forums thread. Some of the behaviour is eye-opening.

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Encourage new riders

Postby x8pg2qr » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:10 am

Encourage new riders through whatever means: usually gentle persuasion.

IMO, there is a seasonal change in people’s lives. i.e. at the start of the year, some people are starting new jobs, or at different schools, or have just moved into a new house/apartment. Maybe they are unfamiliar with a new area. Bicycle riders may not be aware of commute routes or the local cycling culture—BUGs, rides, junctions, work-facilities, crime-level, resources, maps, LBSes etc. Maybe they’re acquiring furniture etc, so use their cars a lot.

Hopefully current riders can welcome them, identify problems, give them time to settle down etc, and organise (or point out) some introduction rides especially at the start of the year. A couple of rides with Marrickville Bicycle (previously MASSBUG), and BIKESydney helped us confidently ride in Sydney starting 1 year ago. From experience, a lot of people don’t know things like BUGs, maps, bikely.com etc exist. Now some of these BUGs use social media, which IMO helps.

Personal anecdote: My wife gets more comment about her riding to work than I do. Comments range from: “you cycle in a skirt?” (it’s only 2 km), to “that helmet is odd”, to “she’s encouraged me to try cycling to work” (only 1 person unfortunately).
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:36 am

My wife drive the car five metres to the letterbox to check out mail. But then, she has an ankle problem and can't walk up or down the driveway.'

Mostly I now check the mail when I arrive home from work.

I am afraid that there is likely not to be a limit to what people will pay for fuel.

I recall during the oil crisis (1970's) that people said that they'd never pay the price that americans were then paying. Never ever ever. (That war $1 per gallon, ie around 20c per litre.)

Well, prices in Oz long ago got to that price in real terms and, while periodically, people would ease up on car use, they always eventually saw the new level as normal. We now do more km per capita than we ever did then. Thouhg there will be a small number of people who will retain short term actions as habit, so a few would try cycling and then stay with it.

The politically difficult decision to freeze or slow car infrastructure would be a winner, though I can't see a government not responding to increasing traffic congestion.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:38 am

RE the trains, yes they do seem to have stopped after Mandurah. afaik, and I am watching for this, the current WA government who is not averse to spending on capital items, has yet to order though demand is only just being met. Hence, not much chance of new train users who need peak hour service.

And it takes two years plus to get any orders filled.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby CommuRider » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:My wife drive the car five metres to the letterbox to check out mail. But then, she has an ankle problem and can't walk up or down the driveway.'

Mostly I now check the mail when I arrive home from work.


Wouldn't it be better to get her one of these for those type of chores?

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It's not good for the car to drive such short distances either.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby biftek » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:05 am

Oxford wrote:
this example is laughable. the local swiming leisure centre is 800 metres from where I live and parking at the time was at a premium as the carpark was very small. the woman across the road who had children at the same school as mine and I were both going to the carnival. she had no other children to transport, just a chair and umbrella for shade. she got in her V8 landcruiser and left at the same time I did, I walked. she drove to the leisure centre, no parks left, so started looking for on street parking, which she eventually found about 400metres from the centre (on the road she had just driven from home), yes that's right only 400 metres from her home, but she parked, got out her gear and walked up the same hill I did, getting there after I did even though we left at the same time. fuel is too cheap when people make decisions like that.


I see that sort of thing at my local leisure centre too , it always cracks me up watching the cardio bunnies drive around in circles looking for a spot closer to the door , they get out of the car in their cardio gear walk up the ramp rather then use the stairs and head off to their cardio class
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:11 pm

Read the topic of the thread - I was hoping for some useful stuff for us and our activists.

I can say with a fair degree of certainty that many of the posters here will in years to come be not much different than those being lambasted. I've seen it all before.

Ease up on the self righteousness, a common fault among us who ride and one that is only going to give support to the opinions that many motorists have of us just to stroke our own egos. And that certainly is not going to to make cycling better or safer.

Please...
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby CommuRider » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:28 pm

Touche.
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby The Womble » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:09 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Read the topic of the thread - I was hoping for some useful stuff for us and our activists.

I can say with a fair degree of certainty that many of the posters here will in years to come be not much different than those being lambasted. I've seen it all before.

Ease up on the self righteousness, a common fault among us who ride and one that is only going to give support to the opinions that many motorists have of us just to stroke our own egos. And that certainly is not going to to make cycling better or safer.

Please...

A slightly uneasy +1. are you a school teacher? :lol:
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby CommuRider » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:12 pm

Was that at me? Nope, not a school teacher.
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Re: Visible movable barriers

Postby The Womble » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:14 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Moveable barriers serve a useful purpose. But by their nature they can be sited in dangerous or less than ideal places, just waiting to catch the unwary or the plain unlucky. (http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=35669&p=522758#p522758)

However, I reckon that reflectors or reflective paint would seem to be the minimum requirement for these barriers. Unpainted concrete is one of the easiest things not to see even if a rider does have lights.

I'd extend the same simple requirement to plastic barriers. Paint them with reflecting irridescent paint, or glue reflectors on them.

Perhaps BTA and others could lobby to have something written into relevant standards.

Am I the only one who seems to remember these things being reflective a few years ago?
Im also sure that Australia wouldve had the little flashing amber lights along road sections under construction/upgrades back in the 80's the same as we had in NZ.
So much for improving road safety huh?
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby jet-ski » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:49 pm

I think we still have lots of flashing lights and reflective stuff, and flood lights, but is there any standard for barriers? :P

Col - not sure if you've seen these guys yet but I like some of the stuff they do from an activist viewpoint...http://urbanrepairs.blogspot.com/

We can get into a debate about sharrows and bike boxes and the like now... :P my favorites are the pot holes that they have decoratively marked
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Re: Visible movable barriers

Postby jules21 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:52 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Moveable barriers serve a useful purpose. But by their nature they can be sited in dangerous or less than ideal places, just waiting to catch the unwary or the plain unlucky. (http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=35669&p=522758#p522758).

while i agree these are dangerous, the case just reinforces why i won't ride at night without a headlight (i.e. one with a beam that illuminates the road ahead, not just marks my presence to others).
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby The Womble » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:56 pm

Now theres a thought. Id urge anyone who is game enough to buy or make a cyclist template and go nuts in their local area, or those sections where they feel at risk on their regular rides!


Do it! I will be! :twisted:
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Re: Simple things to make cycling better and safer

Postby lethoso » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:41 pm

Comedian wrote:A friends dad was injured on his bike at roadworks.


unsafe roadworks are scary as showtime. I was riding home late one night, went past some roadworks. 50 metres after all the cones and signs had stopped, there was a manhole with the cover off :shock: Just about shat myself. Ayups are good but they don't do much to light up a gaping hole, I was almost on top of it when I saw it.
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