Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby elStado » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:39 pm

human909 wrote:They are not excuses they are reasons! And unless they are addressed then they people riding without lights will continue to happen. Fining cyclists is not a constructive action and it clearly doesn't work.


True.

At least down here in Melbourne government has been spending millions on the bike share. Throwing money towards subsidies for helmets for tourists. It would make far more sense to supply 7-elevens and vending machines selling bike lights for $2 rather than selling cheap helmets. Make cheap bike lights available at night and I'm sure you'll see less ninjas. A huge purchase should get the price of these down to $2.


Great idea.

In fact these are even better, same price and design, but they are 1x red and 1x white. I actually got myself a pair last week after using these for the past 6 months and I can say that for a $5 set of lights they are extremely bright and effective as a safety/hazard/secondary light.

So if you have energy to devote to this issue why not direct it towards encouraging solutions rather that bitching about it. :idea:


Woah woah, tune it down a little. I don't see myself as "bitching about it", more so a.) venting my frustration and b.) see if there's a better way about it. Which you have illustrated there is. OK. :)

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$1.40 for a pair of quality batteries. I have used these myself with my planet bike rear light and they are good.
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by BNA » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:04 pm

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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby human909 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:04 pm

elStado wrote:Woah woah, tune it down a little. I don't see myself as "bitching about it", more so a.) venting my frustration and b.) see if there's a better way about it. Which you have illustrated there is. OK. :)


Ok. :) Fair enough. :) I apologise for the comment.

I've been caught out without light a few times. Its not good but I still have to get home. But I'm placing an order for these cheapies so all my bikes have them on it permanently. If I'll tape them down so they don't get stolen. Riding in inner Melbourne back streets I have no big issue with going short distances without lights. The longer commutes I have sometime resorted to going via a bike track. :oops: . No way would I ride Heidelberg road at night without lights. :shock:

The problem is getting bigger in inner Melbourne because of the commuter cycling explosion the area is having. There are alot of new people on bikes and many don't have lights. Bike Victoria has been frustrated and been helping things by combing force with the police with a carrot and stick approach.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby jet-ski » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:23 am

Not so sure those cheapies are adequate. I saw a few lights on Australia day that resembled those, but I initially thought that their dull red glow may have been reflectors catching the light of my Ayups.... but they weren't they were dodgy cheap lights :P I suppose I did see them 200m away. :/
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby human909 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:36 pm

jet-ski wrote:Not so sure those cheapies are adequate. I saw a few lights on Australia day that resembled those, but I initially thought that their dull red glow may have been reflectors catching the light of my Ayups.... but they weren't they were dodgy cheap lights :P I suppose I did see them 200m away. :/


Cheapies are far better than nothing. Generally they are bright enough for the first 0.5-1hrs of use but they deteriorate quickly to a much dimmer light after that.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby gorilla monsoon » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:58 pm

human909 wrote: Riding in inner Melbourne back streets I have no big issue with going short distances without lights. The longer commutes I have sometime resorted to going via a bike track. :oops: . No way would I ride Heidelberg road at night without lights. :shock:


So you have been not so much part of the solution but part of the problem then?
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:21 pm

I got caught out with my Ayups one day commuting home. They were on but got weaker and weaker as it go closer to home, 5kms out bang no lights and I didn't like it. Started to swear because at home I had my dynamo and dynamo light waiting to be installed and running. Got home and sorted out the wheel and got the lights installed. Now I'm never without lights.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby TheShadow » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:07 pm

Fortunately the lighting on Brisbane bikeways is generally adequate to make out the numbskulls who ride without lights. Generally. :| I sometimes give them an open-raised-arm, palms up "WTHell" gesture if I really haven't see them as we pass each other going opposite directions. I have had a head-on on a bikeway (during daylight) before and the impact is strangely more explosive than you can imagine. I didn't much like it - it was some kid on a steel clunker cutting a blind corner.

However I would like to congratulate the small but growing number of pedestrians and joggers on the bikeway using LED flashers >> they get it, and I give them wave or a "Thanks!" more often than not.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby elStado » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:20 pm

human909 wrote:
jet-ski wrote:Not so sure those cheapies are adequate. I saw a few lights on Australia day that resembled those, but I initially thought that their dull red glow may have been reflectors catching the light of my Ayups.... but they weren't they were dodgy cheap lights :P I suppose I did see them 200m away. :/


Cheapies are far better than nothing. Generally they are bright enough for the first 0.5-1hrs of use but they deteriorate quickly to a much dimmer light after that.


The $4.80 single LED DX lights are good. I have been using them for 6+ months and they are still as bright as they were new. Not ideal as a total solution, but as a secondary/backup light they are fantastic.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby human909 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:41 pm

gorilla monsoon wrote:
human909 wrote: Riding in inner Melbourne back streets I have no big issue with going short distances without lights. The longer commutes I have sometime resorted to going via a bike track. :oops: . No way would I ride Heidelberg road at night without lights. :shock:


So you have been not so much part of the solution but part of the problem then?


Depends what you see as the problem? I would suggest that most seasoned, multipurpose, bike commuters would have experienced riding without lights at some point. I would be shocked if any dutchman who had ridden from 20+ years not to have ever ridden without lights. Is riding on an empty street at 15kph while being aware of your surroundings a problem? I wouldn't think so. I've been riding bikes long before lights were compulsory. I've been riding at night since I was ten years old.

As I have said the inner Melbourne back streets are safe. They are low speed, well lit and if you ride deferentially then there is little risk. I think you'll find the statistics would agree. There are more bikes on these streets than cars after 12, its like Amsterdam and its safe.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby Breba10 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:34 am

Ask yourself one question – how far am I prepared to drive a car without lights in the dark? 5 km? 1km? 500m? (For those playing at home, the correct answer is “”I’m not”.)

The fact is that actions have consequences – sometimes minor, sometimes deadly. It is a person’s choice not to mitigate that risk to themselves but it is unacceptable to involve other people in your gamble that serious consequences won’t occur because of your actions. Lights are essential, potentially life-saving equipment on a bike and riding without them deserves censure.

So make comment to the numpties. If it means one person puts lights on their bike then it is one less person who is likely to cause an accident that may involve me.

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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby human909 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:56 am

Breba10 wrote:Ask yourself one question – how far am I prepared to drive a car without lights in the dark? 5 km? 1km? 500m? (For those playing at home, the correct answer is “”I’m not”.)

The fact is that actions have consequences – sometimes minor, sometimes deadly. It is a person’s choice not to mitigate that risk to themselves but it is unacceptable to involve other people in your gamble that serious consequences won’t occur because of your actions. Lights are essential, potentially life-saving equipment on a bike and riding without them deserves censure.


An equally apt comparison for low speeds in quiet back streets is how far would you walk without lights in the dark?

I'm just playing devils advocate here. I'm not saying people SHOULD ride without lights, I just recognising that it occurs and it isn't a terrible sin when it occurs if done sensibly. Same thing with drinking alcohol to great excess. I don't think people should do that, but it certainly does occur and as long as you don't fight, drive etc then I don't see a big problem about it.

Just saying... :-)

But I will continue to use my lights at all times when its dark. But as a regular utility cyclists I will be very surprised if I don't get caught out for whatever reason at some point in the next decade.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby goodlookingcyclist » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:24 pm

human909 wrote: I would be shocked if any dutchman who had ridden from 20+ years not to have ever ridden without lights.


How is it relevant what the dutcht do ??

Sure they ride without lights, or very weak ones, but most of the time they are also protected from traffic because they ride on seperate bicycle paths for 90% of the trip.
And if they don't , the streets are so wel lit , it is almost daylight, AND cars can't use the smidsy excuse...
Al these factors contribute to create a completely different situation.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby human909 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:40 pm

goodlookingcyclist wrote:
human909 wrote:I would be shocked if any dutchman who had ridden from 20+ years not to have ever ridden without lights.


How is it relevant what the dutcht do ??

Its not completely relevent. But it is a window into what healthy, vibrant and widespread utility cycling entails.

human909 wrote:Sure they ride without lights, or very weak ones, but most of the time they are also protected from traffic because they ride on seperate bicycle paths for 90% of the trip. And if they don't , the streets are so wel lit , it is almost daylight, AND cars can't use the smidsy excuse...
Al these factors contribute to create a completely different situation.

:?: :?: :?: :?
Have you been to or lived in Holland? Separated bike paths only exist for major thoroughfares. Most of my commuting was on roads. As far as lighting goes I would say the street lighting is comparable to inner Melbourne. That is, it is only moderately lit.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby Matt72 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:18 pm

human909 wrote:
gorilla monsoon wrote:
human909 wrote: Riding in inner Melbourne back streets I have no big issue with going short distances without lights. The longer commutes I have sometime resorted to going via a bike track. :oops: . No way would I ride Heidelberg road at night without lights. :shock:


So you have been not so much part of the solution but part of the problem then?


Depends what you see as the problem? I would suggest that most seasoned, multipurpose, bike commuters would have experienced riding without lights at some point. I would be shocked if any dutchman who had ridden from 20+ years not to have ever ridden without lights. Is riding on an empty street at 15kph while being aware of your surroundings a problem? I wouldn't think so. I've been riding bikes long before lights were compulsory. I've been riding at night since I was ten years old.

As I have said the inner Melbourne back streets are safe. They are low speed, well lit and if you ride deferentially then there is little risk. I think you'll find the statistics would agree. There are more bikes on these streets than cars after 12, its like Amsterdam and its safe.


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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby human909 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:43 pm

Matt72 wrote:You owe me $2 for the food I spat out when I read this sentence.

Its true though in the back streets of inner Melbourne. (Niddrie isn't inner Melbourne.)
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby Matt72 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:47 pm

Who said Niddrie was inner Melbourne?
And you have no facts to support your claim.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby m@ » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:14 pm

I guess personal observation is as good as anyone could offer, so one opinion is as good as another.

Personally I'd want good lights even more if I expected the roads to be very quiet, as that's when you're more likely to encounter hoons or inattentive drivers just wanting to get home and not on the lookout for cyclists IME. Of the near misses and abuse from drivers I've had in the past 12 months, all have been late at night riding home after a late shift or from a mate's place between 10:30-11 PM.

I also feel that by riding without lights I might be setting a bad example to others who will then take less calculated risks, and adding to the perception that cyclists don't follow road rules or look out for our own safety.

By the by, when did lights become mandatory in Vic? Different states have different laws etc of course, but IIRC from 'bike week' in my primary school days they were required then in Tassie, though the wording is different now. That was a depressingly long time ago...
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby human909 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:41 pm

Matt72 wrote:And you have no facts to support your claim.


What the fruitcake!? Are you serious with this line of comment?

I'm not trying to present facts, I am presenting observation as someone who lived and still rides in inner Melbourne regularly. Take it or leave it I am not presenting a court case here. In Collingwood, Fitzroy & Carlton I genrerally encounter far more bikes using the back streets than cars late at night. I have not done a full statistical survey. :roll:
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby Matt72 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:00 pm

human909 wrote:
Matt72 wrote:And you have no facts to support your claim.


What the fruitcake!? Are you serious with this line of comment?

I'm not trying to present facts, I am presenting observation as someone who lived and still rides in inner Melbourne regularly. Take it or leave it I am not presenting a court case here. In Collingwood, Fitzroy & Carlton I genrerally encounter far more bikes using the back streets than cars late at night. I have not done a full statistical survey. :roll:


That was patently obvious! :roll:
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby damhooligan » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:52 pm

human909 wrote:
goodlookingcyclist wrote:
human909 wrote:I would be shocked if any dutchman who had ridden from 20+ years not to have ever ridden without lights.


How is it relevant what the dutcht do ??

Its not completely relevent. But it is a window into what healthy, vibrant and widespread utility cycling entails.

human909 wrote:Sure they ride without lights, or very weak ones, but most of the time they are also protected from traffic because they ride on seperate bicycle paths for 90% of the trip. And if they don't , the streets are so wel lit , it is almost daylight, AND cars can't use the smidsy excuse...
Al these factors contribute to create a completely different situation.

:?: :?: :?: :?
Have you been to or lived in Holland? Separated bike paths only exist for major thoroughfares. Most of my commuting was on roads. As far as lighting goes I would say the street lighting is comparable to inner Melbourne. That is, it is only moderately lit.


Hi human909.

To avoid confusion, i posted as goodlookingcyclist before, but wil answer as damhooligan. (sorry for the added confusion)

Yes , I have lived there for more then 28 years.
Mayby not in every corner, but from my point of vieuw where I lived the differences between there and here are massive.
Don't forget then 90% of the dutch wil only use those major thoroughfares

I would be interested to know for how long you have been there, and in wich part...
And i don't know if you travelled a bit further then the lenght of your nose while you where there,
But not the whole country is the same, from my experience, the difference between the two is too big to even look at this window.

No matter how you look at it, and no matter what they do in other country's, cycling without lights is stupid.

You can never have a good reason or excuses or or or , whatever to ride without lights.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby elStado » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:57 pm

damhooligan wrote:No matter how you look at it, and no matter what they do in other country's, cycling without lights is stupid.

You can never have a good reason or excuses or or or , whatever to ride without lights.


+1

Even having broken/stolen lights aren't really good excuses/reasons.

Would you drive your car home at night if it has broken lights? Of course not. Why? Because it damn dangerous for both yourself and other people. Same goes for the bike, except its more dangerous for yourself. Why anyone would put themselves at risk is beyond me. It's not hard to buy some cheap $5 lights online so you always have a spare pair. That's what I do.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby damhooligan » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:02 pm

elStado wrote:
damhooligan wrote:No matter how you look at it, and no matter what they do in other country's, cycling without lights is stupid.

You can never have a good reason or excuses or or or , whatever to ride without lights.


+1

Even having broken/stolen lights aren't really good excuses/reasons.

Would you drive your car home at night if it has broken lights? Of course not. Why? Because it damn dangerous for both yourself and other people. Same goes for the bike, except its more dangerous for yourself. Why anyone would put themselves at risk is beyond me. It's not hard to buy some cheap $5 lights online so you always have a spare pair. That's what I do.



Ah yes, stolen lights, that has happend to me before... (from my pup bike... outside the pub...)
And in fairnes, makes the bike rider in that case a bit of a victim as well.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby elStado » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:21 pm

damhooligan wrote:Ah yes, stolen lights, that has happend to me before... (from my pup bike... outside the pub...)
And in fairnes, makes the bike rider in that case a bit of a victim as well.


Takes exactly 20 seconds to remove your lights and stash them in your pocket/jacket. Not a valid reason.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby damhooligan » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:43 pm

elStado wrote:
damhooligan wrote:Ah yes, stolen lights, that has happend to me before... (from my pup bike... outside the pub...)
And in fairnes, makes the bike rider in that case a bit of a victim as well.


Takes exactly 20 seconds to remove your lights and stash them in your pocket/jacket. Not a valid reason.


Let's not get ultra nitpicky here...

For everything in life there is always something you could have done to prevent it , in hindsight...
Being a victim of a crime is not a crime itself.
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Re: Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

Postby Matt72 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:16 am

damhooligan wrote:
elStado wrote:
damhooligan wrote:Ah yes, stolen lights, that has happend to me before... (from my pup bike... outside the pub...)
And in fairnes, makes the bike rider in that case a bit of a victim as well.


Takes exactly 20 seconds to remove your lights and stash them in your pocket/jacket. Not a valid reason.


Let's not get ultra nitpicky here...

For everything in life there is always something you could have done to prevent it , in hindsight...
Being a victim of a crime is not a crime itself.


Unless of course you use that as an excuse to commit a crime
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