Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Oxford » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:13 pm

Simon40 wrote:What options do cyclists have if a motorist does actually hit them?
Today I was hit from behind by an angry motorist who was in a hurry (by the sound of his honking). I have pictures which clearly show my bike wedged under the front of this guy's car and the police don't seem to want to book this guy. What can I do? Is this negligent driving or malicious driving or is there some other rule? (Surely you must have broken some rule or law if you hit someone from behind?)
Can I upload a picture?

Definitely do something about it, use the template, expand on it saying that police attended and do not want action any charges and send it to the police commissioner and CC in your state member of parliament demanding something be done. Trust me, when you spread it that wide action will happen and it can only be positive. And yes hitting someone from behind does put a large burden of proof on the other person.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:17 pm

A few issues are raised by this thread. re use of listening devices

Listening Devices Act 1984 No 69

5 Prohibition on use of listening devices

(1) A person shall not use, or cause to be used, a listening device:

(a) to record or listen to a private conversation to which the person is not a party, or

(b) to record a private conversation to which the person is a party.

(3) Subsection (1) (b) does not apply to the use of a listening device by a party to a private conversation if:
(a) all of the principal parties to the conversation consent, expressly or impliedly, to the listening device being so used, or
(b) a principal party to the conversation consents to the listening device being so used and:
(i) the recording of the conversation is reasonably necessary for the protection of the lawful interests of that principal party, or
(ii) the recording of the conversation is not made for the purpose of communicating or publishing the conversation, or a report of the conversation, to persons who are not parties to the conversation.

It seems that you just have to warn the other person you are recording the sound. If there is no objection, that looks like implied consent.

Alternately, if you are having a shouting match in the middle of King Street Newtown, you could hardly characterize that as a private conversation.

private conversation means any words spoken by one person to another person or to other persons in circumstances that may reasonably be taken to indicate that any of those persons desires the words to be listened to only:

(a) by themselves, or

(b) by themselves and by some other person who has the consent, express or implied, of all of those persons to do so.


I'm very curious about videos. Do people routinely film their rides?

I guess the video evidence is crucial because in my experience, the police do nothing at all unless there is an injury.

re court, yes you should be prepared to go to court. I'd love to get the chance to nail some driver. If your video evidence unambiguously shows some criminal behaviour, you may not be required to testify. The video speaks for itself. Only if the defence are being completely unreasonable will they demand that you testify to prove you are the maker of the video.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:34 am

diggler wrote:A few issues are raised by this thread. re use of listening devices

Listening Devices Act 1984 No 69


Which jurisdiction does this Act apply to? This is pretty critical information given Australia's Federal structure.

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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:13 am

Deepest apologies. This was a NSW law. Sorry for being NSW centric.

Further apologies, it appears this law has been replaced by Surveillance Devices Act 2007 No 64 (NSW).

Same ideas though.

7 Prohibition on installation, use and maintenance of listening devices

(1) A person must not knowingly install, use or cause to be used or maintain a listening device:
(a) to overhear, record, monitor or listen to a private conversation to which the person is not a party, or
(b) to record a private conversation to which the person is a party.

(3) Subsection (1) (b) does not apply to the use of a listening device by a party to a private conversation if:
(a) all of the principal parties to the conversation consent, expressly or impliedly, to the listening device being so used, or
(b) a principal party to the conversation consents to the listening device being so used and the recording of the conversation:
(i) is reasonably necessary for the protection of the lawful interests of that principal party, or
(ii) is not made for the purpose of communicating or publishing the conversation, or a report of the conversation, to persons who are not parties to the conversation.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Oxford » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:55 am

Qld and I understand other states are different. My understanding is that in Qld you only have to be party to the conversation to be able to record it. You may not be able to present it directly as evidence, but you can refer to it as a memory aid when presenting evidence if say you presented a transcript of the conversation to verify the accuracy of the conversation.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:50 am

This appears to be the prevailing Qld legislation

INVASION OF PRIVACY ACT 1971 - SECT 43
43 Prohibition on use of listening devices
(1) A person is guilty of an offence against this Act if the person uses a listening device to overhear, record, monitor or listen to a private conversation and is liable on conviction on indictment to a maximum penalty of 40 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply--

(a) where the person using the listening device is a party to the private conversation


It looke like you can record the conversation if you are a party to it.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby high_tea » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:10 am

Note that this section applies to "private conversations" (defined in s4). I very much doubt that any conversation you recorded while riding your bike would meet the definition. Usual disclaimers.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Oxford » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:26 am

the really interesting thing is if you are having a conversation with the police and you tell them you are going to record it, they often get really temperamental about it, suddenly they have lost control of the process. I would urge anyone having a conversation with the police if they are the subject of police enquiries to record the conversation. keeps them on their best behavior. :wink:
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby waynohh » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:50 pm

Has anyone had any success with any other format besides MPEG2 DVD?

The template says "CD".

In my experience having to open any type of file is a good excuse for any government or council official to blow you off for technical or security reasons.

With BCC and the busses, they basically just tell you to encode it a different way 10 times because they can't play it.

With police, they "can't put that in their computer".
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Oxford » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:11 pm

waynohh wrote:Has anyone had any success with any other format besides MPEG2 DVD?

The template says "CD".

In my experience having to open any type of file is a good excuse for any government or council official to blow you off for technical or security reasons.

With BCC and the busses, they basically just tell you to encode it a different way 10 times because they can't play it.

With police, they "can't put that in their computer".

whoever is telling you that is talking crap because they are lazy. everytime I've submitted a disc to the police they have been fine with it, no matter the format (nos I submit in AVI format only), but I always send my letters to a commissioner or at the very least the officer in charge of a larger station so it gets the requisite attention it deserves. with BCC, as I said in a comment on one of the videos, upload to YouTube and send the YouTube link via the TransLink complaint, no excuses then, maybe even do the same with the police.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:06 pm

Oxford wrote:the really interesting thing is if you are having a conversation with the police and you tell them you are going to record it, they often get really temperamental about it, suddenly they have lost control of the process. I would urge anyone having a conversation with the police if they are the subject of police enquiries to record the conversation. keeps them on their best behavior. :wink:


Police hate being recorded. They hate accountability. A lot of them have no idea about the law. A lot of them remove their ID badges to avoid being identified. I've always had bad experiences dealing with the police.

In their defence, it is a really tough job. They deal with a lot of drunk, violent f'wits.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:40 pm

I've seen more than a few of Vics Finest wearing small PVRs on their person for their own protection. Seems like a good idea all round. Maybe make 'em corporate issue too. If they're doing nothing wrong...

Hands up who thinks harder about how they behave when knowingly under surveillance?
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby waynohh » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:19 pm

with BCC, as I said in a comment on one of the videos, upload to YouTube and send the YouTube link via the TransLink complaint, no excuses then, maybe even do the same with the police.


Official response from translink for youtube

Dear Wayne,

I am writing in follow up to our conversation today regarding the driving conduct of the TransLink bus operator you witnessed on 15 April 2011.

As discussed, please reply to this email with any additional information and if possible, attach file footage of the incident, as we are unable to access youtube.com to view the supplied link.

Upon receipt of the requested information we will commence our investigation into this matter.

We hope that this information has been of assistance to you. Should you require further information regarding this issue, or any other matter, please visit the TransLink website at http://www.translink.com.au/ . Alternatively, the TransLink Call Centre is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week on 13 12 30.

Kind regards

Emily
TransLink Customer Support


then

Dear Wayne,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Unfortunately, the file attachment has not been received successfully. Your reply email has been successful however, I have not received any attached files. Could you please email: [email protected] once again with the file attached and quote reference number 526097.

I greatly appreciate your assistance in this matter and apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused.

We hope that this information has been of assistance to you. Should you require further information regarding this issue, or any other matter, please visit the TransLink website at http://www.translink.com.au/ . Alternatively, the TransLink Call Centre is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week on 13 12 30.

Kind regards

Emily
TransLink Customer Support


Gave up after one more attempt.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Oxford » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:01 pm

I have only ever submitted videos to TransLink via YouTube, so not sure what they are on about with you as I have never had an issue. Can't blame you for giving up in frustration, but I would presume your file attachments are too large, video files are not small and anything over about 30Mb will usually get removed by email hosts. In situations like that I would host the file somewhere (either my own or my employers website) for them to download. For me I would take this direct to BCC and forget TransLink, they're being a little obstinate.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby waynohh » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:15 pm

Burning about 80 incidents on video DVD for police with the original files on a separate DVD. Written up 2 for starters - hit by driver on mobile phone and hit by truck. Renamed them all whether they're careless driving, dangerous driving and/or assault. Created chapters for each one and including an index that matches chapters to the original files. I'll be frankly pissed off if they don't ask for statements for at least some of the rest of the videos. Oh, and that's Feb to July this year only since getting 5MP cameras and retiring the contour.

I'm going to the valley police office, there's no mailing address on the site for any commissioner.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:55 pm

Mulger bill wrote:I've seen more than a few of Vics Finest wearing small PVRs on their person for their own protection. Seems like a good idea all round. Maybe make 'em corporate issue too. If they're doing nothing wrong...

Hands up who thinks harder about how they behave when knowingly under surveillance?



I don't know why cops don't have video cameras. Instead of arguing in court about who said what, who did what, we have proof.

Cameras are so cheap.

My guess is that the cops object because they don't want to be accountable.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Oxford » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:53 am

waynohh wrote:...

I'm going to the valley police office, there's no mailing address on the site for any commissioner.

Wayne, sorry I didn't see this earlier. Here's the details you need:

Assistant Commissioner Peter Barron
Metropolitan North Region
C/- GPO Box 1440
BRISBANE Qld 4001

You might want to check he is still AC Metro North, but it shouldn't be a problem as whoever is his replacement will take care of it.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Oxford » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:55 am

Mulger bill wrote:...

Hands up who thinks harder about how they behave when knowingly under surveillance?

Not me, I don't do anything normally that I would be ashamed of, so nothing to hide here.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:36 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHEgCA7O-ao

I'm thinking of reporting this to the police. I doubt they will do anything about the dangerous driving, but they could pick him up on using a mobile phone while driving and brake light not working.

Hopefully it will send a message for motorists not to please be my friend cyclists.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Oxford » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:54 pm

diggler wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHEgCA7O-ao

I'm thinking of reporting this to the police. I doubt they will do anything about the dangerous driving, but they could pick him up on using a mobile phone while driving and brake light not working.

Hopefully it will send a message for motorists not to please be my friend cyclists.

why not, go for it? I usually do this stuff while I am watching TV, so its not like I'm taking specific time out of my day and its not time "wasted". the letter addresses all the issues the police will raise and if they raise ones not addressed then let me know and I'll add it to the template. next time a cyclist may not be so lucky, if there is a next time, the driver is likely to remember (hopefully) and not be silly.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:21 pm

I emailed this to the police and Sydney Morning Herald. It may be of interest to their motoring or technology sections. I have made an edited version of the clip to cut out the period I was chasing the car.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HMyBSaobIw
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:34 pm

The police force are so useless. First of all, I emailed the police force with a link to you tube. They said

If you wish to make a report about the actions of another motorist you should attend a Police Station and make a formal statement setting out the details of the incident.

I wasn't surprised they would ask me to go to the cop shop because that is their standard procedure. However, why would you need a statement if all the evidence is on the video? The video speaks for itself. What more can I add?

Anyway, I went to the Campsie NSW cop shop armed with the you tube link and a dvd in mp4 format. "Sorry mate, we can't access the internet." I sort of understand that the police force doesn't want the staff goofing off watching cats playing piano when they should be catching criminals. Then a dopey cop said something really dumb. "Mate, we haven't been trained in that." You need training to use you tube? Better to shut up than let people know how stupid you are. Next problem was they couldn't play the dvd. I half saw that one coming.

I went home and burnt new dvd's in wmv format and a disc to play in a dvd player. The dopey cop then said, "We can't use that. It can only be used as eviidence if the police witness it." (So if you witness a murder, that is not evidence? Are you a ****** idiot?)

Fortunately another cop could play the wmv file. After viewing the footage, another cop comes back and says "The car didn't hit you, so it isn't dangerous, the defective brake light I'm not going to charge him but if you really push me, I'll ring him to get it fixed. The mobile phone wasn't placed to his ear, so I won't charge him." I told the cop that it was against the law to do anything with a mobile phone in the hand but the cop was adamant. "Mate, they're thinking of changing the law, but at the moment it is only an offence if the phone is held to his ear." I knew he was wrong. I went home and printed out the law and gave it to him.


ROAD RULES 2008 - REG 300

300 Use of mobile phones by drivers (except holders of learner or provisional P1 licences)

(1) The driver of a vehicle (except an emergency vehicle or police vehicle) must not use a mobile phone that the driver is holding in his or her hand while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked, unless the driver is exempt from this rule under another law of this jurisdiction.

Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

(2) In this rule:

"use", in relation to a mobile phone, includes the following:
(a) holding the phone to, or near, the ear (whether or not engaged in a phone call),
(b) writing, sending or reading a text message on the phone,
(c) turning the phone on or off,
(d) operating any other function of the phone.


(my emphasis)

I allowed him to save face by pointing out that these were the 2008 regulations and maybe he was thinking of the 2007 law.

He said he would get onto it and to ring him back in a couple of days. I don't have a lot of faith in him. Anyway, I will ring Senior Constable Tran of Campsie police on Wednesday and I bet 100% he will be on leave and when you ask to ring back on a day he is there, he will always be mysteriously out of the office on a job.

Next step I will write a letter to the officer in charge of the station using the pro forma.

For my own protection, I made sound recordings of these conversations. I can't really reproduce them because that would be an admission of a listening devices offence. Hopefully they will come in useful some time.
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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby Aushiker » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:02 pm

diggler wrote:The police force are so useless. First of all, I emailed the police force with a link to you tube. They said

If you wish to make a report about the actions of another motorist you should attend a Police Station and make a formal statement setting out the details of the incident.


The video is not sufficient and nor should it be. A proper sworn statement is required for presentation to the Court. A read of http://www.alrc.gov.au/inquiries/uniform-evidence-law might be of use. That said, in a "minor" traffic incident a sworn statement may not be required but again following Oxford's advice you are reducing the number of "excuses" to not do anything.

All that said I am surprised that NSW (? - helps if you put your location in your profile) Police does not have an online reporting system. WA has and if anything they prefer that being used to you going into a station.

If you concerned about the handling of your matter, I suggested you review the Code of Conduct and other related documents (all available from the NSW Police website for example) and write in a polite and constructive manner detailing what happened and your concerns to the Commissioner of Police and the Minister of Police and your local State MP. Adding in the extra two parties escalates the level of accountability.

With regards to the DVD I always provide a copy in *.mov format when requested. That seems to work for the Police etc in my experience.

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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby GraemeL » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:07 pm

I think it stinks that we have to go to such lengths to get something done. Why is it, we have to wait until we are hit or injured before the police act?
There is all this talk about how we can make things safer etc, but at the end of the day it makes no difference, because the very people that are supposed to inforce the law just don't give a showtime.
And if they can't even figure out how to play a video file, what hope have we got.

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Re: Template for Reporting Incidents to Police

Postby diggler » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:30 pm

Thia appears to be the most appropriate offence in NSW for a minor incident.

ROAD TRANSPORT (SAFETY AND TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT) ACT 1999 - SECT 42
Negligent, furious or reckless driving
42 Negligent, furious or reckless driving
(cf Traffic Act, s 4)

(1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle negligently on a road or road related area.
Maximum penalty:
(a) if the driving occasions death-30 penalty units or imprisonment for 18 months or both (in the case of a first offence) or 50 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years or both (in the case of a second or subsequent offence), or
(b) if the driving occasions grievous bodily harm-20 penalty units or imprisonment for 9 months or both (in the case of a first offence) or 30 penalty units or imprisonment for 12 months or both (in the case of a second or subsequent offence), or
(c) if the driving does not occasion death or grievous bodily harm-10 penalty units.
(2) A person must not drive a motor vehicle furiously, recklessly or at a speed or in a manner dangerous to the public, on a road or road related area.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units or imprisonment for 9 months or both (in the case of a first offence) or 30 penalty units or imprisonment for 12 months or both (in the case of a second or subsequent offence).
(3) In considering whether an offence has been committed under this section, the court is to have regard to all the circumstances of the case, including the following:
(a) the nature, condition and use of the road or road related area on which the offence is alleged to have been committed,
(b) the amount of traffic that actually is at the time, or which might reasonably be expected to be, on the road or road related area.
(4) In this section:
"grievous bodily harm" includes any permanent or serious disfigurement.
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