In an accident? You need to know this.

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby jules21 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:09 am

Ox - so glad to hear you're back on the bike and have moved on. i only have respect for you in how you've handled all of this.

can i make a suggestion though - more for the 'benefit' of others who (i dare to think) may ever end up in a similar situation, in the future? i would have pushed for more serious charges. everything i've learned/read about dealing with the police - including your case, but others and discussions with a mate of mine who is a cop - is that you need to push hard to get them to take proper action.

for that driving, i would argue it's clearly criminal. my limited understanding of the law is that the cops can't upgrade charges (i think), but in your case - i would have thought/hoped that adding new, more serious charges - i.e. dangerous driving would remain an option for them. this could have - if perhaps unlikely in the Australian wild west approach to cycling justice - resulted in jail time for the driver.
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by BNA » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:22 pm

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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:22 pm

I would be putting it to the police that the nature of our justice system requires the police and the courts to test the evidence and punish behaviour that conflicts with the Acts as they are written at the time - for the sole reason that your suffering was caused by someone who has deliberately taken the right to decide how the road is used around them into their own hands, and you might decide to take justice into your own hands. I think we've all seen enough movies and articles about the NSA and the underworld to understand that motivated individuals can find people and do as they choose with them.

Ask the police to cross the road while you rev the car and move towards them. Are they intimidated? Of course. They would draw a gun given the chance. You didn't have such power, ox, and you've lost years because of it. I would certainly not accept loss of licence - it's not hard to get behind the key and turn the key without one. Jail time with significant charges is the only way forward. Otherwise the police would accept you can hospitalise the other driver by ramming them with a truck, threatening them with a knife, all manner of nasties. You didn't provoke anything warranting hospitalisation. The police are responsible for justice. Push it to make it happen.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby jules21 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:30 pm

fair points X but i don't think you'll get far attempting to reason with them - police are reluctant to pursue more serious charges as it equates to more work. it is just laziness. i spoke to a mate of mine who is a cop about this recently and he was scathing of fellow cops in that regard (of course i'm sure he is upstanding!) it's just like any other organisation - to get results, elevate the issue up the chain of command until you find someone who is accountable for upholding police standards. they will/should then go and kick the constable's arse into action.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:41 pm

No one wants to do any work, but the cops are smart enough to realise you are serious once you've shown them the video and you explain that justice will be served. If they attempt to pursue you for conspiracy to do something etc, you question why this would be the case - you have done nothing, yet you gave them evidence of wrongdoing and they did nothing. It's a 3 ring circus of stupidity - but that's the world we live in. I don't think anyone wants Ox to take justice into his own hands, but I do expect the police to pony up when they are given a free kick like this.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Summernight » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:50 pm

Oxford wrote:After thinking about it for some time, I decided to load up the video. Not for any other reason than if it does help someone, then that is a positive thing. I know there are going to be critics and detractors, that's why comments on the video are disabled. I'm not really interested in explaining the contents, however I may respond to polite queries. Suffice to say much of the arguing in the legal side of things was over lane positioning, I'll leave that to others to debate, I am not going to feel as though I have to defend myself other than to say where this occurred it is commonplace for cyclists to be left hooked. The other issue will be the speed at which the car appears to approach at impact. The only explanation for that is that the driver was on their horn persistently distracting me and I was looking over my shoulder at her, being on a fixie I can only conclude that being distracted my cadence was interrupted and I slowed measurably (not helped by my body being turned to the right). Accusations by the other side that I was stopped or slowed rapidly by braking are nonsense as my right hand was not on the bars (by the admission of the driver) and hence unable to operate the only brake on the bike other than the fixed drivetrain and the rear wheel is clearly turning.



Holy flying spaghetti monster. I didn't have the sound on when I watched that but even without sound it is just... wow. The deliberateness of the driver's actions are unbelievable. How is that not attempted murder???

Glad you're alive, Oxford.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:56 pm

If there was ever a post worth of a quadruple repost, it's that one.

I understand your feelings of vengeance have passed, ox, but this kind of case has potential to change the lives of many drivers and cyclists through awareness and possible legal change. Menacing onroad behaviour is high on the list of most people's worst fears list. Even if this one gets away cheaply, the public know what is right and fair. No one condones such aggression, because they know they would hate to be the weaker party against a truck or bus - even if the court doesn't come down on the driver, it highlights the fact that such behaviour is unacceptable. Queensland in particular seems to have more of these events, and it's all part of the process for positive change.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Shred11 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:35 pm

That's terrifying video footage. Without it, nobody would believe that any human being could engage in what could only have been a deliberate attempt to inflict grievous bodily harm or to murder you. The driver should have spent a long time in gaol - the fact that she's still driving is really scary.

I can only hope that hiring a lawyer to defend her actions cost a _lot_ of money.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby cp123 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:23 pm

far out ox.... :shock: :shock: :shock:


scoops chin off the ground. That was deliberate premeditated bullying and you're damn lucky you didn't end up in a box 6 feet under. How DARE she???


I kind of get why you've let it go - but by god


when you say - you can still go after her for a loss of licence - is that something can happen in the civil world? I know nothing about law. But surely - like Craig Cowled's video - the police would HAVE to take a second look if they actually SAW the truth. craig got a whole new enquiry (or similar) looking at his video evidence and lack of statement in the hospital. I guess if you had the inclination, we would all support you 100%


that woman should NOT be still on the road!!! :evil:
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby cp123 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:07 pm

did she cough up with a realistic offer to replace everything - eg bike/gear/lid etc once she saw the video...?
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby outnabike » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:18 am

Oxford I am at a loss for words when seeing that video, and apparently no help from that murderous driver. With the maelstrom of emotion you endured you showed great courage and presence of mind. I doubt that I would have been able to maintain my self control.
To think that without the camera footage, the police were accusing you according to witnesses must have been absolutely devastating. So glad you are pulling through that terrible ordeal.
I have no doubt that your strength of mind is your biggest asset.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby human909 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:26 am

The driver and the police need to be held to account in such incidents.

Really, it needs to happen for change to occur.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:36 am

I have to say Oxford - the video was shocking. But not all that surprising having experienced a car rush up behind me deliberately once before.

So very fortunate you did have all the video footage to prove your story or it might just have been that the other parties may have bulldozed you over. Shocking.

I can only hope that with this footage being out there, it might bring about some change for the better, though I worry that it might just encourage copy-cats.

I'm not surprised you'd prefer to ride on bike paths instead of the road - I would too if I'd experienced the same thing. :(
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby outnabike » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:12 am

I am definitely going to upgrade my camera system with a rear cam. The other day riding on the South Gippsland highway and I was happily holding my lane watching all the drivers going around me from a distance in the rear mirrors. Then in a quiet period the only car coming along was a white late model Holden Ute. The driver wasn't changing lanes and came close behind, then blasted his horn continuously whilst coming around me, he also had his arm up in a salute to top it off as he came level.
And there was no one else but him and I on the road.I just wonder what it will take to tip an idiot like this over the edge in a moment of madness when he is actually held up.
I have had this occur but not to the same degree of pure hate this individual displayed. I am 68 years of age, and I know I can't be knocked about as when I was younger (not that I want to either), but apart from all that , I don't want to spend my days in a wheel chair either.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby clydesmcdale » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:15 am

Unbelievable footage. May I ask where this occurred? Would like to have an understanding of the area should I ever come through there.

Again thanks for the info, I hope never to refer to it
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Great Scott » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:41 pm

I never realised Qld road/bicycle laws differed in this way.
"keep to the far left of a road that is not a multi-lane road. On a multi-lane road, you can take up any position within the lane" DoTMR

So on the multi-lane road which you were on, it was quite legit to be in the middle of the lane. wow.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby jules21 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:59 pm

Great Scott wrote:I never realised Qld road/bicycle laws differed in this way.
"keep to the far left of a road that is not a multi-lane road. On a multi-lane road, you can take up any position within the lane" DoTMR

So on the multi-lane road which you were on, it was quite legit to be in the middle of the lane. wow.

differ from what? that's the case everywhere - it's the national rule.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:15 pm

^^^^ It's a fair point - this national rule is known by virtually NO ONE.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby macca33 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:31 pm

Oxford wrote:Not sure if I answered a query about the police being aware of the video, the answer to that is no, they are not and were never shown the video, I didn't want that out as I wanted my lawyer to have it as a trump card for their purposes. I may still write to the police and question of criminal charges can be brought, but again that solves nothing. I'd get more satisfaction from a license suspension as it can be just as devastating.


I've gotta say that I'm a bit perplexed at this decision mate. This video is CLEAR evidence, in the absence of anything to the contrary being proffered, that the driver DELIBERATELY rammed you, not once, but twice. The driver committed a CRIMINAL act and to not show this to the coppers may not have been the best decision. I appreciate what you were trying to achieve civilly, however, your civil case would certainly have been bolstered should the driver have been charged and convicted criminally.

I'm not trying to be critical - you have suffered enough from the injuries - but anyone blaming the coppers for simply issuing a ticket should also know that the full extent of the evidence was not provided for them to make an informed decision.

This was NOT just another inattentive driver making an error - it was a clearly orchestrated, pre-meditated and deliberate act. Quite frankly, the driver ought to have gone to gaol for this.

All the best for your recovery and remember, it is not too late for you to formally tender the video to police - it is a serious offence.

Good luck with your ongoing recovery.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby takeitasread » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:38 pm

I've just seen this thread and video and cannot believe that has happened to you. They have deliberately rammed you! I cannot for the life of me understand how any human being could do that to another. I feel so sad for you and from what you have suggested lost about 2-3 years of your life.
Last edited by takeitasread on Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby takeitasread » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:41 pm

Oxford wrote:If I wanted retribution, trust me it would have happened by now, she would have had no idea it was me and she would have suffered greatly and over a very long period of time.


ooooh, that must be have been SO tempting. You are a better man than me.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:28 pm

FUUUUUUUUUzzballs!
Ox, you are a WAY better and stronger man than I. Having survived an attempted murder like that I would have been ready to go biblical on the knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, dull eyed puddle of congealed pond water the moment I was able. That creature has NO place on the roads and only the most tenuous fingernail hold on membership of the human species.

Mating chimps aren't that evil.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:30 pm

Oxford wrote:Ultimately I would settle for no money compensation if the driver surrendered her license for a 30 month period, roughly the mount of time it has taken me to get my life back on track (though not 100%). Basically forcing her to seek alternative means of transport such as maybe a bicycle. Well at least I can daydream that that would happen.

I have an Italian background in me. I would settle for a just, nasty, and memorable act of revenge :evil:


For the love of Mike, that woman committed a deliberate and wilful act of assault towards you. A long prison term would be a fairly reasonable expectation. Yes, 30 months deprived of the car and locked in the slammer might be OK.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby jules21 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:43 pm

il padrone wrote:I have an Italian background in me. I would settle for a just, nasty, and memorable act of revenge :evil:

*sound of violins trailing off as camera pans out from IP who is left pondering the precise nature of said revenge*

:)
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby beanspropulsion » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:01 pm

Be aware of white Nissan Micra? 804 LEV.

That is criminal, speechless.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby rangersac » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:25 pm

There are plenty of knuckle draggers in Tassie but we seem to lack the homicidal variety, or at least I am yet to encounter them. Every time I see a video like yours though Ox I get ever closer to hitting the buy button on a Fly6. Un-friggin-believable. Your restraint is admirable, if it were me I'd be going to town on that driver and the cops with that video.
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