In an accident? You need to know this.

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:07 pm

In other news, it's going viral. A riding mate just posted it on Facebook. Justice will be done. :x
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by BNA » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:24 pm

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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby clydesmcdale » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:24 pm

[/quote]It happened on Old Northern Road, just before Keona Road in Everton Park:

https://goo.gl/maps/ZvUXc

Can't seem to do the google map thingy.
[/quote]

Thanks mate, last i rode through there was on a Redcliffe Loop, thought it looked familiar. It's a regularly used road by cyclists. Drivers should very much be used to seeing bikes around along there. Truly is unbelievable, considering how much room and visibility there is along there.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby jules21 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:58 pm

Oxford wrote:On a side note ACA have contacted me about the video. I will talk to them tomorrow just to see what they want. Not sure how involved I want to be with them.

After reading many of the comments here I think I will write a letter to the Police Commissioner asking whether they are able to take further action over the matter.

that's great to hear, Ox - on both counts. i'd love to see you on ACA - i know it's risky and there's no guarantee they won't stitch you up, but in the circumstances i can't see that they would have much choice but to run a sympathetic line. what the driver does is clearly inexcusable.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:26 pm

I wonder if you are able to arrange final edit approval as part of agreeing to appear on camera? I doubt it would be possible, but it certainly helps stop a stitch up. I don't think that would be their desire though... clear driver aggression is a good thing to rail against, rather than for.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:37 pm

If you're going to have any dealings with the meeja Ox, and particularly THAT branch, may I suggest that you take all your cameras to the interview and run them constantly? Nothing like being able to show raw footage to beat a sneaky Q&A swapping edit...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby hudnut » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:59 pm

Xplora wrote:In other news, it's going viral. A riding mate just posted it on Facebook. Justice will be done. :x


Be aware that a google search shows that this car was for sale in april 2014.
I dont think a new car owner needs any grief.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:27 pm

Oxford wrote:Yeah ACA wanted to talk to me in 2012 about another video, I baulked at the last moment fearing a stitch up, I am very wary of their motives.



Don't give them anything - they'll just tear you apart. They don't have any ethics. They'll probably get Ian Luff and or Ben Fordham on camera talking about unsafe riding, etc. Need I remind you:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=55990 (A Current Affair, Ben Fordham and Ian Luff's Stitch Up)

il padrone wrote:
Oxford wrote:Ultimately I would settle for no money compensation if the driver surrendered her license for a 30 month period, roughly the mount of time it has taken me to get my life back on track (though not 100%). Basically forcing her to seek alternative means of transport such as maybe a bicycle. Well at least I can daydream that that would happen.

I have an Italian background in me. I would settle for a just, nasty, and memorable act of revenge :evil:


For the love of Mike, that woman committed a deliberate and wilful act of assault towards you. A long prison term would be a fairly reasonable expectation. Yes, 30 months deprived of the car and locked in the slammer might be OK.


Absolutely the driver deserves time behind bars. It was very, very deliberate. The driver now will be absolutely terrified of the thought of what might be around the corner.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:48 pm

I just take it to court seeking criminal charges.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby cp123 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:39 pm

You're now on Safe cycling, the cycling security group (whatever they're called) ANOCS


you'll be round the world in 3 days. Unfortunately ... (because it happened, not because it's going out there)
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Summernight » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:33 am

You don't have to talk to the media or appear on TV if you think it would harm you or your family's health (mentally and physically). Surely even without a statement from you the video is self-explanatory.

The police don't need you to go to the media for them to investigate this and see about additional charges. Of course the media may help them work a bit faster and/or be more diligent.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Xplora » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:38 am

I support Oxford's position on this - the poor bloke is dealing with some level of post traumatic stress disorder, and he's waiting for the settlement to hit his bank account. He's still relatively anonymous at this point, and I think that's a smart move. Putting his face in front of a TV camera doesn't look after his family - the settlement will.

Once that cash comes in, as Russ said in Gladiator - "unleash hell"...
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby jules21 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:05 pm

Oxford wrote:I've pretty much decided that depending on intent I will participate on the basis that my name, image or anything that identifies me is off the table. The video speaks for itself and is hard to twist. I will insist on it bein used wholly with no editing.

i've been interviewed on prime time TV for cycling stuff. it's amazing how no one notices. you have this perception that you're going to be like Princess Di with paparazzi following you and people recognising you, but it isn't the case. i think a few people i knew saw it and mentioned to me. but that was it.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Summernight » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:56 pm

jules21 wrote:
Oxford wrote:I've pretty much decided that depending on intent I will participate on the basis that my name, image or anything that identifies me is off the table. The video speaks for itself and is hard to twist. I will insist on it bein used wholly with no editing.

i've been interviewed on prime time TV for cycling stuff. it's amazing how no one notices. you have this perception that you're going to be like Princess Di with paparazzi following you and people recognising you, but it isn't the case. i think a few people i knew saw it and mentioned to me. but that was it.


I did what Oxford is thinking of doing (not full name, not face etc.). People recognised me on the street at the time during my commutes because of my distinctive cycling gloves as they were in the video. But because I didn't go full frontal on TV, people who don't know me didn't recognise it was me involved, which is how I like it as then I control whether it gets brought up or not and it doesn't define who I am. I also think the message came across better too doing it that way. My 2 cents. I guess it depends on the circumstances and yes, the paparazzi do, thankfully, go away. We're not royalty. :)
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Matthewb » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:49 pm

The term 'accident' probably shouldn't be used in this case.... I had similar behaviour happen today, on a short bridge section so it was very narrow. I have a rear view mirror so I could see what was going on - I decided to bail up the gutter onto the footpath rather than die, fortunately there were no police around or I would have been sent to jail for riding on a footpath (motorist may have received a stern talking to, if that....). [/cynical rant]

Anyway, I hope it works out for you mate, that was brutal.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby HiChris » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:14 am

I see the car has been sold recently? Hopefully it won't be needed in prison. You are a better man than me Oxford, I would have wanted blood for that.


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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby cowled » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:53 pm

Oxford, I don't know how I missed this thread. I saw your video after Dave Sharp shared it on FB. That was truly horrific. How on earth can somebody have such low regard for human life? I think it is outrageous that the driver got off with a TIN. It's a familiar story. I wonder whether it would be possible to get the DPP's attention if we submitted a joint request for prosecutorial intervention. Clearly, the QPS need to receive unambiguous direction as to the meaning of Dangerous Operation of a Motor Vehicle causing Grievous Bodily Harm. PM me if you are interested in talking further.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:39 pm

Frightening footage, I have two video cameras and never use them because there seemed little point until now. I reckon they'll be on the bike for every ride now, that is just scarey !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby outnabike » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:45 pm

Well done mate, I reckon get as much attention back on the system as possible. It may have a big impact on police training to gather unbiased facts.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby cp123 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:01 pm

I'd trust media watch a hell of a lot more than I would a current affairs!
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:52 pm

Another one, in the USA:

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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby yugyug » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Alex I'm not sure this is the right thread to post collision porn. Try Moron Motorists?
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby softy » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:32 pm

Referring to oxford's video posting;

Please accept my empathy.

This was incredible to watch, it appeared the driver was trying to intimidate you into moving over, utilising the vehicle to threaten you, then decided to hit you or again intimidate you but got to close.

Changing the situation into car and car instead of bicycle car, it would of been a clear rear ending and the insurance companies would of agreed to pay the damages to the front vehicle assigning blame to the rear or most rear vehicle if it was a pile up.

It is atonishing how a bicycle is treated so differently?? The vulnerability of a cyclist seems to not be considered, even worse, the bicycle is seen to be the problem for just being there??

It never seems to astound me how perception trumps laws and who is percieved to be right. I have seen this atitude in a number of situations.
No wonder people are scared to change there transport mode. :(

I am glad that the mental stress surrounding this has mostly passed, in these situations you question everything and what is really right or wrong.

When things go bad it is amazing how people change and only worry about their own skin. :(
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby jimred07 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:12 pm

I read this article AFTER my accident. This is great stuff and my lawyer was amazed at the detail in my notes which made her life easier. A couple of things I learnt:

1. Make sure the police are called, not just ambulance. In my case they weren't and this has slowed things down.
2. Make sure the scene is photographed before anything is moved, even in peak hour traffic.
3. Get a helmet or frame cam - actual footage is the best evidence.
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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby outnabike » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:19 pm

From the 15 Oct 2014 an official change to NSW rules with collisions notification. They say this is what people may do.... :) It seems in a federated country it won't apply to all states.
http://media.drive.com.au/cars/car-news ... in_amplify

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Re: In an accident? You need to know this.

Postby jules21 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:19 pm

a tip/case study on getting police to take proper action on serious crashes.

someone (not me) was recently hit by a car, from behind. in marked bicycle lane, early morning (dark) but lit up brightly. he was seriously injured, now recovering. the driver made an admission to police. the police had a chat with the driver, took his confession, then apparently decided it was all a terrible accident but that was no excuse, so they needed to issue the driver with an infringement (unsure what, small fine). naturally, the cyclist was being treated in hospital so had no part.

representations were quickly made to the attending officer's sergeant on behalf of the cyclist, who under duress reluctantly agreed to upgrade the charge to careless driving (suspended licence, fine). the cyclist - naturally - was incredulous at the lenience of the penalty. long story short, further submissions were made to more senior police (superintendent level), who intervened to look at upgrading charges again to dangerous driving causing serious injury (Vic offence). max. 5 yrs in the hole.

i've deliberately excluded personal details of rider and specifics of the case, as I don't have consent of victim to post this. however, key points on ensuring police take correct action are:
1. you need to be quick in engaging with police. i.e. get in before they issue a soft penalty. they can't go back a 2nd time.
2. elevate the issue immediately - don't deal with constable or sergeant, go straight up. there is a clear tendency for more junior cops (and really, anything less than superintendent is relatively junior in the grand scheme of things - don't be dazzled by the shoulder stripes) to 'not make a fuss' and shoot for soft penalties.
3. you need someone to be ready to take those steps. you may not be in a position to act until it is too late if you're off to hospital.
4. don't do all of this for minor incidents
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