Call for action on doorings

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby jules21 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:40 am

gorilla monsoon wrote:Well, every car I drive has this thing attached to the outside of the door called a "rearview mirror" and I look in it to see if there are bicycles, motorcycles, cars, trucks or anything else before I open the door. Maybe others can do the same?

i was thinking about this as i was exiting my car on the weekend. the mirror can be a poor guide for whether a cyclist is nearby. an ex-colleague of mine was a road tester and race car driver explained the correct way to position a wing mirror - so that it points outwards and doesn't unduly overlap with the view provided by the internal rearview mirror (in practice, the wing mirror should not show a view of the side of the car). neither mirror provides a 'full view' of what's coming up behind - although both together should do a reasonable job of that.

my experience is that a lot of people like to angle their wing mirror quite inwards, with a view of the side of the car. that provides a handy reference point, but leaves a fairly large blindspot and i'd postulate is a contributing factor to doorings.
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by BNA » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:16 pm

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Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby grasshopper » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:16 pm

I suspect that the new mirrors allowed (required?) under the ADRs are an issue too; they show things farther away than they are. Assuming anyone used them, of course.
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Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby jules21 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:19 pm

grasshopper wrote:I suspect that the new mirrors allowed (required?) under the ADRs are an issue too; they show things farther away than they are. Assuming anyone used them, of course.

but convex mirrors reduce the size of blindspots. the idea is that you get used to the fact the object appears further away than it is - you should be using your mirrors constantly while driving, so you shouldn't forget about that.
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Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby Slim » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:53 pm

jules21 wrote:
grasshopper wrote:I suspect that the new mirrors allowed (required?) under the ADRs are an issue too; they show things farther away than they are. Assuming anyone used them, of course.

but convex mirrors reduce the size of blindspots. the idea is that you get used to the fact the object appears further away than it is - you should be using your mirrors constantly while driving, so you shouldn't forget about that.


All good but overlooks the fact that at least 50% of drivers have no idea what's behind them whether a bike, car, truck or charging bull. They don't use mirrors (convex or otherwise) for anything else but checking out their hair, make-up or whatever.

Unfortunately the raw data is probably unavailable to prove a correlation, but every incident of dooring that I've ever come across involves a female driver. :shock:

Has anyone else noticed the same or different?
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Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby zero » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:42 pm

Slim wrote:
jules21 wrote:
grasshopper wrote:I suspect that the new mirrors allowed (required?) under the ADRs are an issue too; they show things farther away than they are. Assuming anyone used them, of course.

but convex mirrors reduce the size of blindspots. the idea is that you get used to the fact the object appears further away than it is - you should be using your mirrors constantly while driving, so you shouldn't forget about that.


All good but overlooks the fact that at least 50% of drivers have no idea what's behind them whether a bike, car, truck or charging bull. They don't use mirrors (convex or otherwise) for anything else but checking out their hair, make-up or whatever.

Unfortunately the raw data is probably unavailable to prove a correlation, but every incident of dooring that I've ever come across involves a female driver. :shock:

Has anyone else noticed the same or different?


Nope,

I've seen 3 doorings in Balmain - incidently all 3 doorings were drivers dooring cars. 2 out of 3 of the drivers opening doors were male. The common theme is that the driver did not get out of their car immediately, and the car is parked for the duration of the other vehicles approach. This is also true of virtually every near miss for me (I ride far enough away that I cannot be hit by the door).

I've seen doors being thrown open also by drivers immediately after they park, again from both sexes, but imo if you see a car move into a parking position, you'd be pretty dumb to get doored by it.
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Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby trailgumby » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:46 am

Well, it looks like my somewhat emotive letter and attached photos has really struck a nerve with at least one of the Councillors at Warringah.

I have a meeting with Councillors some time in the next few weeks. Currently we're negotiating a window so that as many Councillors can make it as possible.

The Councillor who has taken the running with this is an avid transportation cyclist and is looking to change the Bike Plan so that on-road bike lanes are placed between parked cars and the footpath, not between parked cars and passing traffic.

Of course, this has its own new set of risks and issues, particularly at intersections with cross-streets,

I have some references that I've saved over the last few years, but if you guys have any links to useful articles, research, videos, or presentations that speak to this option it would be great if you could please share them.
"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

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Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby herzog » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:27 am

trailgumby wrote:I have some references that I've saved over the last few years, but if you guys have any links to useful articles, research, videos, or presentations that speak to this option it would be great if you could please share them.


TG, show them this. It's very very hard to argue against:



http://youtu.be/1v3Ne23CNLQ
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Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby Xplora » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:04 am

trailgumby wrote:The Councillor who has taken the running with this is an avid transportation cyclist and is looking to change the Bike Plan so that on-road bike lanes are placed between parked cars and the footpath, not between parked cars and passing traffic.

The strange thing, if the road is wide enough, this isn't an issue. I find riding up Dunmore St in Wentworthville to be a fairly benign experience, because I know that a car can drive around me AND remain on their side of the double lines. There are many places where the road has essentially been turned into a single lane and opening a door would result in a car being hit (let alone a cyclist).

Perhaps better guidelines for what constitutes a safe road to recommend to cyclists? My experience with Warringah is extensive around Killarney Heights/Forestville. Many roads are simply too narrow to share at speed. Maybe parking only on one side of the road where there isn't enough space? That increases your space by 3m, and wouldn't adversely affect parking very much at all? They are fairly good with having car parks.
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Re: Call for action on doorings

Postby martin_12 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:39 pm

trailgumby wrote:The Councillor who has taken the running with this is an avid transportation cyclist and is looking to change the Bike Plan so that on-road bike lanes are placed between parked cars and the footpath, not between parked cars and passing traffic.


I will never ride at more than walking pace in the car door zone on either side of any car.

A couple of years ago I hit a door opened by a passenger on the left side of a car. The car was turning right and the passenger decided to get out while the driver waited for oncoming traffic to clear. There may be fewer people getting out of the left side of parked cars but they are much less likely to look behind before opening the door. I reckon the risk is about the same as the driver side.
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