Road Rule Help

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Road Rule Help

Postby 257LL » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:52 pm

Hi everyone,
I had a strange situation yesterday while commuting to work. So you know the area I was travelling north along the shared path which runs parrallel to Anzac parade in Sydney, heading towards the city. The shared path ends at the intercection of Anzac Parade and Moore Park Road and to continue to the city I get on the road here and continue on flinders street towards oxford street. To get onto flinders Street, depending on the which way the lights are going I either cross onto the moore park road and turn right with the traffic, or cross the road and join anzac parade and continue through with the traffic.
This is what every cyclist does here, however yesterday as I reached the end of the shared path I was stopped by two police officers who asked me where I was going. I informed them that I was heading to the city and I planed to join the traffic and continue on the road as described above. I was told this wasn't legal and if i did it they'd write me a ticket. So I asked where I was suppose to go and they didn't answer with anything productive.

So I'd just like to know if its is legal to join the road as I've decribed, I don't see any alternatives and this route is taken by 100's of cyclsits daily. Any help would be appreciated. If you want to look at the street view the area is the cornor of Anzac Parade and Moore Park Road. Thanks
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by BNA » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:02 pm

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Road Rule Help

Postby herzog » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:02 pm

That is a bugger of a spot. I agree there's no obvious legal option for bikes.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby il padrone » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:35 pm

I do believe that according to the letter of the law you need to leave the bike path here and move into the far right lane (before the solid lines) to avoid these two left turn only lanes. Personally I would not do this however. Not often happy about sharing with heavy commuter traffic in a right-hand through lane for any distance. I'd be merging right further down the road.

With such crapo cyclist-unfriendly roads I can see why Sydney has such a low cycle commuting level :(


I hope they were booking every driver who crossed those solid lane lines BTW :roll:
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby herzog » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:56 pm

Whoa that just confused things a bit!

The shared path is a two way job on the other side of the road. You can see the end of it in this street view:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Anzac+ ... ,2.22&z=19

The spot in question is where the two people are standing.

I also saw the coppers pinging riders there yesterday, albeit in the afternoon.

I suspect it has something to do with this:

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/lates ... YWxsPTE%3D

Surry Hills Police target bike safety on our roads

Friday, 02 December 2011 03:54:15 PM

Surry Hills Police are appealing to cyclists to obey the road rules and adhere to the road conditions as they launch Operation Reliance this weekend, targeting cyclists and their safety on the roads.

Operation Reliance will include officers from the recently strengthened Surry Hills Bike Squad, general duties and highway patrol.

It will run on Friday 9 December and Saturday 10 December 2011, with a focus on the suburb of Paddington, as well as areas within the Surry Hills Local Area Command.

Police will be patrolling the area to ensure cyclists obey the road rules that are expected of all motorists.

Particular attention will be paid to ensuring cyclists stop at red lights and that they don’t endanger pedestrians on footpaths.

Bicycle lanes in the CBD should be used where available.

Infringement notices may be issued by police for riding on a footpath, proceeding through red lights or riding a bicycle without a helmet.

All road users are reminded to adhere to the road rules to ensure the safety of every person on our roads.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby il padrone » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:16 pm

OK, my error.

So what is that road coming in on the right, also labelled Anzac Parade?? Is it two way or another southbound lane? If it has northbound traffic, whatever is wrong with joining it on a red traffic light, and turning into Flinders Street with the green light?

Or is it a bus-way?



What sort of tin-pot state sets up a cycling facility into the CBD that dumps you at an intersection where there are no crossings and no legal way to proceed??? Then sends the cosmic-enforcers out to book those dangerous law-breaking cyclists. :roll:

R-sole traffic planning :shock: :evil:
Last edited by il padrone on Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby herzog » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:25 pm

il padrone wrote:OK, my error.

So what is that road coming in on the right, also labelled Anzac Parade?? Is it two way or another southbound lane? If it has northbound traffic, whatever is wrong with joining it on a red traffic light, and turning into Flinders Street with the green light?


It's a very complex intersection. In addition to Moore Park Rd and Anzac Pde, you've got the cycle path, a separate bus only road, and a tunnel entrance all converging at one spot.

Here's the satellite:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Moore+ ... 1&t=h&z=19
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby il padrone » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:30 pm

I guess the other option is to find another (better) route. Maybe cut over to Bourke Street and ride their you-beaut bike lanes ?? If you can keep out of the 'door-zone' and avoid the locals' dumped rubbish :roll:
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby wombatK » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:09 pm

il padrone wrote:What sort of tin-pot state sets up a cycling facility into the CBD that dumps you at an intersection where there are no crossings and no legal way to proceed??? Then sends the cosmic-enforcers out to book those dangerous law-breaking cyclists. :roll:

R-sole traffic planning :shock: :evil:

Welcome to the Premier State Pete - and a minister who loathes cyclists and will do everything he can to undermine Clover Moore's initiatives.

If you look at Clover's City of Sydney Cycle Maps, you'll see a gap at the northern end of Moore Park (i.e. at Moore Park Road). Which implies no legal option.

The open cyclemap is a little more helpful, in suggesting there is a way across the ped crossing and through the park to Fitzroy St. But you wanna go to the city, not take a detour down Fitzroy, right ?

The RTA's cycleway maps don't show exactly where the shared path ends. Let's say that it ends right at the kerb on Moore Park Rd.

Then I can't see why you wouldn't be perfectly entitled to ride to the kerb, then plonk your bike in the left hand lane, then ride with the traffic like any other vehicle.

Maybe these coppers and the dolt who is the current Minister-for-Transport-by-Everything-That-Guzzles-Gasoline are smart alecs and have discovered the RTA/City of Sydney wasn't quite smart enough and have not gazetted the footpath between the old tram/bus side-road and Moore Park Rd as a shared pathway.

If that were the case, you'd probably have to dismount your bike and walk it over to Moore Park Rd, plonk it on the road, and join the traffic.

And write some letters to Clover to fix the problem as soon as she can.

Sheez, and peeps wonder what critical mass are on about.
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Road Rule Help

Postby herzog » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:58 pm

Ironically the former premier used to bike commute on precisely this route. Yet it was never addressed.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:14 pm

Gotta love the way that Plod in their periodic blitzes "to make cyclists safer" totally ignore other transgressions that hurt us more than 99% of the stupid things we do :roll:
Consistent application of all road rules to all users, all the time will go a long way to making the roads safer for all.

Of course, the beancounters will deem it revenue neutral or negative therefore it will not be seen as sound business practice and will not happen.

That particular junction looks like a highway to hell. My sympathies to my Northern siblings.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby 257LL » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:33 am

Thanks for the replies, and thanks for Herzog for the repost on sydcyclist.
Yeah it is absolutly insane that of everything to inforce they came up with this, you'd have thought a blitz on cycling safety there would be some sort of crack down on illegal overtaking. Can you request stats like this from police stations?
Anyway as suggested on syd cyclist a good solution would be if they put up bike crossing lanterns, and then a bike box ahead on Moore Park Road, with a right hand exception for cyclist. I think I'll write to Sydney Council about this cycling network black hole and hopefully someone takes note.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby Xplora » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:05 pm

That's some of the most retarded spineless BS I've ever heard. What are they expecting to achieve by hassling cyclists about the bike path? Guess what guys - they will simply ride on the road, meaning that motorists will get even crankier :roll: Meanwhile, people are getting forced off the road and the cops won't chase up the video evidence provided.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby tallywhacker » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:52 am

I'm confused, aren't cyclist allowed to ride on the road in sydney ?
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby longshanks » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:44 pm

257LL wrote:I was told this wasn't legal and if i did it they'd write me a ticket. So I asked where I was suppose to go and they didn't answer with anything productive.


This sounds like the biggest pile of BS i have ever heard. I would be ringing the Surry Hill coppers and asking for a please explain.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby jules21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:41 pm

257LL wrote:I was told this wasn't legal and if i did it they'd write me a ticket. So I asked where I was suppose to go and they didn't answer with anything productive.

sadly, this reflects the culture of some in the law enforcement game: "i only tell people when they've done something wrong, it's not in my job description to be constructive or helpful."

you should have just stayed there with them and told them that following their advice, you weren't sure how to legally move on.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby WestcoastPete » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:15 pm

Yeah, as il padrone said; you should be able to join the road before the solid white lines start in the left hand lanes and ride in the through lane. It could be a bit busy traffic wise, but you're within your right to take the lane through the intersection and continue down Flinders St. Or you could turn left and join traffic through to South Dowling St, and then Flinders St.

I don't see what's illegal about continuing on. The only illegal part would be crossing the solid white lines.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby human909 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:29 pm

There is nothing illegal about wheeling you bike across a road. Unless there is a pedestrian don't walk sign.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby 257LL » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:31 pm

jules21 wrote:
257LL wrote:I was told this wasn't legal and if i did it they'd write me a ticket. So I asked where I was suppose to go and they didn't answer with anything productive.

sadly, this reflects the culture of some in the law enforcement game: "i only tell people when they've done something wrong, it's not in my job description to be constructive or helpful."

you should have just stayed there with them and told them that following their advice, you weren't sure how to legally move on.


Yeah I'm fairly certain she wanted me to walk my bike along the foot path to college street, where i could ride for 1km before walking to circular quay. haha

maybe the ticket was going to be for crossing a solid white line its a pitty I didn't ask, however I believe she was telling me that walking half way across the road and stopping to join the traffic was illegal.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby Xplora » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:55 pm

AFAIK, there isn't much to define entering the traffic flow, and there is definitely very little about how cyclists are able to join the traffic - after all, you can ride on a shared path, a bike path and the road all within 100m in the right situation.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:00 pm

Xplora wrote:AFAIK, there isn't much to define entering the traffic flow, and there is definitely very little about how cyclists are able to join the traffic - after all, you can ride on a shared path, a bike path and the road all within 100m in the right situation.

+1

I could trawl through the road rules to check, but I'm very confident there is no rule that restricts how a cyclist enters the traffic flow - apart from giving way to oncoming traffic.

[edit] Yep. Rule 74.

Victorian Road Rules wrote:74 Giving way when entering a road from a road related area or adjacent land
(1) A driver entering a road from a road related area, or adjacent land, without traffic lights or a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line must give way to—
(a) any vehicle travelling on the road or turning into the road (except a vehicle turning right into the road from a road related area or adjacent land); and
(b) any pedestrian on the road; and
(c) any vehicle or pedestrian on any road related area that the driver crosses to enter the road; and
(d) for a driver entering the road from a road related area—
(i) any pedestrian on the road related area; and
(ii) any other vehicle ahead of the driver's vehicle or approaching from the left or right.
Penalty: 5 penalt


Nothing there about not being able to walk onto the road and mount a bicycle :roll:
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby Xplora » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:40 pm

It really comes down to ridiculousness of trying to define cyclist movements when they just don't need them.

Unlike smokeboxes, we pay a VERY heavy penalty for stupid behaviour on the roads despite our miraculous foam hat, so attempts at regulation are always going to be futile. There will never be infrastructure to support Dutch style cycling in Oz, so we should just redesign attitudes to cycling.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby human909 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:40 am

Besides as far as I am aware single white lines can be crossed if one is entering a road or leaving a road. Unbroken double lines cannot.
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby rudeboy » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:16 pm

there are already wheels in motion to fix this intersection and an email to sydney council may get you some information.
There are plans that include the continuation of a shared path along flinders st and also Greens rd.

As far as I can tell the existing route is to turn right into moore park road and cross at greens road
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Re: Road Rule Help

Postby 257LL » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:40 pm

rudeboy wrote:there are already wheels in motion to fix this intersection and an email to sydney council may get you some information.
There are plans that include the continuation of a shared path along flinders st and also Greens rd.

As far as I can tell the existing route is to turn right into moore park road and cross at greens road


Ok thanks, will check this out tomorrow
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