cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

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cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:07 pm

no excuse for that - jail time buddy.

Elderly woman fights for life after bike crash
Mex Cooper
December 6, 2011- 12:37PM

An elderly woman has suffered life-threatening head injuries after being struck by a cyclist near Parliament House in Melbourne.

The 70-year-old woman was hit about 11.30am near the corner of St Andrews Place and Macarthur Street.

It is believed she was stepping off a tram when she collided with the male cyclist.

An Ambulance Victoria spokesman said she was taken to the Royal Melbourne Hospital in a critical condition. The cyclist was taken to St Vincent's Hospital in a stable condition.
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by BNA » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:24 pm

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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby zero » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:24 pm

Will be interesting to see how the treatment of this rider compares to the treatment of the women that doored and killed a rider.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:42 pm

zero wrote:Will be interesting to see how the treatment of this rider compares to the treatment of the women that doored and killed a rider.

while unimpressed with the latter case, i think it should be harsher for this guy. riding at apparently a decent pace past a tram offloading passengers is difficult to portray as an accident. the likely consequences are obvious.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby sogood » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:44 pm

No surprise, more of these will happen.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:44 pm

If the circumstances are as "is believed", then no excuses, no arguments, strangle the dill with one of his own tubes.

Zero, you're a cynical sort of bloke aren't you? I like that.

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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby sogood » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:45 pm

jules21 wrote:while unimpressed with the latter case, i think it should be harsher for this guy. riding at apparently a decent pace past a tram offloading passengers is difficult to portray as an accident. the likely consequences are obvious.

Agree, there's some significant differences b/n the two.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby ozdavo » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:51 pm

I'm not familiar with how the trams operate, but looking at Google Maps streetview, it appears there are traffic lights at the tram stop... which, if i'm right, means the cyclist would have had to be running the red?

Sounds like he's in trouble!
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:14 pm

Not necessarily the case. Trams will stop to let off or pick up passengers, whether the traffic lights are red or green. If the lights are green, vehicles are still required to stop for a stationary tram.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby biftek » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:15 pm

ozdavo wrote:I'm not familiar with how the trams operate, but looking at Google Maps streetview, it appears there are traffic lights at the tram stop... which, if i'm right, means the cyclist would have had to be running the red?

Sounds like he's in trouble!


not really , they are just stops in the midle of the road, person gets off tram and walks across the road to the footpath
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby ozdavo » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:29 pm

So, does that make it less clear cut?

Possible scenario: Cyclist cruising along, tram comes past and stops just ahead, and woman steps straight out with little/no time for cyclist to react?

If the lights are green, vehicles are still required to stop for a stationary tram.

So if there is a tram stopped, and a green light, you cannot pass it?
Sounds like a funny system in this day & age. I'm sure it must work most of the time, and the cyclist was likely in the wrong.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:36 pm

ozdavo wrote:So if there is a tram stopped, and a green light, you cannot pass it?

you can pass a stationary tram at 15 km/h or something, but trams have flashing lights and a stop sign that springs out when the doors open. you must stop then and stay stopped until the lights go off. there is no excuse - the lights and sign are clearly visible.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby MichaelB » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:37 pm

jules21 wrote:
ozdavo wrote:So if there is a tram stopped, and a green light, you cannot pass it?

you can pass a stationary tram at 15 km/h or something, but trams have flashing lights and a stop sign that springs out when the doors open. you must stop then and stay stopped until the lights go off. there is no excuse - the lights and sign are clearly visible.


Yep (the no passing bit), that is my understanding, so the cyclist is well and truly in the wrong (if the lights on rthe tram were flashing)
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:43 pm

MichaelB wrote:Yep (the no passing bit), that is my understanding, so the cyclist is well and truly in the wrong (if the lights on rthe tram were flashing)

if, as the story states, she was alighting from the tram, then the lights were flashing.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby zero » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:56 pm

jules21 wrote:
zero wrote:Will be interesting to see how the treatment of this rider compares to the treatment of the women that doored and killed a rider.

while unimpressed with the latter case, i think it should be harsher for this guy. riding at apparently a decent pace past a tram offloading passengers is difficult to portray as an accident. the likely consequences are obvious.


Oh I agree, but ultimately when someone is seriously injured or dies, it should be investigated properly and the persons concerned should be charged with the appropriate offence. Every time.

Unfortunately there is not yet enough factual information to know how bad the riding really was in this case. There is 4m of roadway between the tram and the kerb. ie we don't know whether its on the other side of queued motor traffic that was stationary before the tram stopped, or next to the door of the tram itself. On that particular road there are conceivable traffic conditions where the rider may not have even been able to see the tram.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby rkelsen » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:02 pm

ozdavo wrote:Possible scenario: Cyclist cruising along, tram comes past and stops just ahead, and woman steps straight out with little/no time for cyclist to react?

That couldn't really happen. Trams are big, heavy things that take a while to stop. Also, there is always a slight delay between the tram stopping and the doors opening.
ozdavo wrote:So if there is a tram stopped, and a green light, you cannot pass it?

Correct. However, trams don't sit at green lights for no reason. Either the intersection isn't clear or someone is alighting, in which case it'll have its hazard lights on and stop signs up.
ozdavo wrote:and the cyclist was likely in the wrong.

My reading of it is that he was in the wrong.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Oxford » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:04 pm

the cyclist probably thought it was OK to risk assess and break the law according to their narrow conclusion (sound familiar). inexcusable action by the cyclist. I was always taught when I learned to drive in Melbourne, if in doubt just stop for the tram, its safer.

I am curious how this will be handled like Zero has commented. both situations were avoidable if both parties decided to think about their actions and consequences thereof.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby sogood » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:05 pm

Oxford wrote:the cyclist probably thought it was OK to risk assess and break the law according to their narrow conclusion (sound familiar).

Rather familiar indeed. :roll:
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:06 pm

zero wrote:Unfortunately there is not yet enough factual information to know how bad the riding really was in this case. There is 4m of roadway between the tram and the kerb. ie we don't know whether its on the other side of queued motor traffic that was stationary before the tram stopped, or next to the door of the tram itself. On that particular road there are conceivable traffic conditions where the rider may not have even been able to see the tram.

i'm assuming she stepped off the tram and was alighting from the tram door as she was hit by the rider, who tried to ride past the tram. in that circumstance, there is absolutely no excuse for the rider. obviously if that's not what happened, then there may be mitigating circumstances - but the article suggests my assumption is what happened.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby rkelsen » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:09 pm

Oxford wrote:I was always taught when I learned to drive in Melbourne, if in doubt just stop for the tram, its safer.

Wise words.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby zero » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:51 pm

jules21 wrote:
zero wrote:Unfortunately there is not yet enough factual information to know how bad the riding really was in this case. There is 4m of roadway between the tram and the kerb. ie we don't know whether its on the other side of queued motor traffic that was stationary before the tram stopped, or next to the door of the tram itself. On that particular road there are conceivable traffic conditions where the rider may not have even been able to see the tram.

i'm assuming she stepped off the tram and was alighting from the tram door as she was hit by the rider, who tried to ride past the tram. in that circumstance, there is absolutely no excuse for the rider. obviously if that's not what happened, then there may be mitigating circumstances - but the article suggests my assumption is what happened.


"It was initially believed that the woman was hit when stepping off a tram but a Victoria Police spokeswoman said this afternoon that it was suspected the woman had stepped onto the road to catch an approaching tram when she was hit."

The provocative headline has been changed as well. ah well the newspapers have never let the absence of facts get in the way of a good headline.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:58 pm

Oxford wrote:the cyclist probably thought it was OK to risk assess and break the law according to their narrow conclusion (sound familiar). inexcusable action by the cyclist. I was always taught when I learned to drive in Melbourne, if in doubt just stop for the tram, its safer.

Lots of cyclists do break the rule and pass stopped trams - but normally only slowly (and not saying this is OK). Bt to cause life-threatening injuries it sounds like the cyclist was fanging it and/or did not know the tram was stopped (not sure how).
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:58 pm

zero wrote:"It was initially believed that the woman was hit when stepping off a tram but a Victoria Police spokeswoman said this afternoon that it was suspected the woman had stepped onto the road to catch an approaching tram when she was hit."

that changes everything. the rule only requires a driver to stop if they are behind the tram. if the woman - as is common - stepped out onto the road while the cyclist was riding past and in front or alongside the approaching tram, then the cyclist's culpability is reduced.

peds are not allowed to step out into the road for approaching trams. it happens all the time though.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby cp123 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:00 pm

Elderly woman struck by bike while boarding tram

by: Grant McArthur From: Herald Sun December 06, 2011 12:14PM

AN elderly woman has been taken to hospital with serious head injuries after being run over by a cyclist while trying to board a stopped tram in East Melbourne.

Witnesses said the woman had only taken one step off the curb at the tram stop in Macarthur St when a female cyclist struck her and knocked her to the ground.

Nurse Lisa Corcoran saw the crash unfold shortly before midday and ran to the old woman's help, but said she soon lost consciousness after suffering head injuries.

"The old lady is unfortunately not in good shape, the lady on the bicycle also has some injuries," Ms Corcoran said.

"She was responding when I first got to her, but once I got a doctor she had stopped responding. (She had) head injuries mainly, very severe head injuries.

"She was responding to me, nodding and with a slight moan, but that did not last for very long and then concussion set in."

The cyclist, believed to be a younger woman, appeared to have a dislocated shoulder.

The accident happened just metres from ongoing extensive roadworks at the tram stop next to the rear entrance to Parliament House, where traffic restrictions are currently in place.

An ambulance spokesman said the accident took place at the intersection with St Andrews Place.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:10 pm

il padrone wrote:Not necessarily the case. Trams will stop to let off or pick up passengers, whether the traffic lights are red or green. If the lights are green, vehicles are still required to stop for a stationary tram.


99odd% certain this does not apply where there is a safety zone. Where so, it is incumbent on pedestrians to use the crossing provided, which most of them don't.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:20 pm

Yep. For sure. But there's no safety zone at this location.
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