cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Oxford » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:24 pm

il padrone wrote:
Oxford wrote:the cyclist probably thought it was OK to risk assess and break the law according to their narrow conclusion (sound familiar). inexcusable action by the cyclist. I was always taught when I learned to drive in Melbourne, if in doubt just stop for the tram, its safer.

Lots of cyclists do break the rule and pass stopped trams - but normally only slowly (and not saying this is OK). Bt to cause life-threatening injuries it sounds like the cyclist was fanging it and/or did not know the tram was stopped (not sure how).

the ped' was an older woman, so its not hard to imagine that even a slow speed collision has the potential to cause significant injuries. I'm just glad we do not have trams to contend with in Brisbane.
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by BNA » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:32 pm

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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:32 pm

il padrone wrote:Yep. For sure. But there's no safety zone at this location.


Noted Pete, but we have to provide the interstate members with full information. Imagine the chaos if a visiting Sydneysider was to stop at a safety zone unnecessarily? The following mob of Chevodores, Tradie utes and Taxis would lynch him.

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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby KonaCommuter » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:59 pm

What’s the penalty for hitting and subsequently killing a pedestrian whom steps out onto the road, sans crossing, if the vehicle is a car?
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:08 pm

It's all going to depend on the circumstances and who was acting reasonably. The penalty is not going to be much different for a car driver or a cyclist - now that they've introduced a culpable riding offence at least (here in Vic)
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Xplora » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:02 pm

Lady Cyclist... I'm not getting the impression this was a hulking brute thundering past the tram. Elderly could mean many things - old people can be pretty spry. My dad is 65 and he'd outrun 90% of this forum (I'm not even kidding).

Ultimately, the elderly lady needed to watch just as much the cyclist should have been careful riding past. It takes two to tango, even if one is responsible for everything on the dancefloor.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:12 pm

Xplora wrote:Lady Cyclist... I'm not getting the impression this was a hulking brute thundering past the tram.

i feel like that muslim guy who thinks after every terrorist attack.. "please don't let it be a muslim.. please don't let it be a muslim.."

imagine the coverage if the rider was covered in lycra..
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby DavidS » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:57 pm

There is no safety zone there so the rules are clearly for a normal tram stop. The rule regarding a tram at a stop is fairly simple: if the tram has the doors open you cannot pass (think of it like a stop sign), if the doors are closed you can only pass if no-one is attempting to get on or off the tram (think of it like a give way sign). A few problems do arise: bikes (I do this so I ain't judging) will often try and out brake the tram to get in front, as long as the tram is moving this is perfectly legal. However, the other problem is pedestrians walking out to the tram as it comes to a halt. If both happen at once you can see the issue. I had a guy try and hit me with an umbrealla a couple of months ago in Swanston St as I went in front of a tram coming to a halt, the tram was moving at the time. I let him know he was in the wrong but I don't think he was convinced, maybe I should have got off and had a word.

This is a tragedy but we all need to be careful around tram stops. I used to drive trams and the biggest issue is cars and bikes passing stationary trams, at stops, with the doors open. It happens all the time and anyone who passes a tram at a stop when the doors are open should be fined heavily. It was only a couple of years ago that the laws were relaxed, it used to be the case that you were not allowed to pass a stationary tram at a tram stop, didn't matter if the doors were shut and no-one was in sight. I prefered the old law, very simple and very clear.

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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby sogood » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:32 am

The victim here is a 70yo lady and I doubt she'd be one who'll jump off or on a moving tram. Not a likely scenario in this case.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby grasshopper » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:43 am

zero wrote:The provocative headline has been changed as well.

Only in the media. No change here.
Police media release wrote:It is believed that a female pedestrian stepped onto the road to catch an approaching tram when she was struck by a cyclist.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Percrime » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:46 am

Yeah.. but people do just step of the curb and walk out to an approaching tram. THey do it in front of cars and trucks. And its actually the point at which its easiest to pass a tram.. no parked cars near the intersection (trams are just outside the dooring zone as it happens) You dont have to stop until the tram is stopped..and they stop fairly slowly. On the other hand the modern ones accelerate pretty fast. So its actually a pretty common place to overtake.. fairly often their are no passengers waiting.

Not saying thats what happened... not saying its necessary an excuse. But its good for a couple of near misses a month.. or annoying stops for a tram you would have been past,,, and a comment on brains directed at the ped. its good for a few hundred injuries to peds by cars a year. Hardly ever bad because no one is going that fast and even the stupidest motorists and cyclists expect someone to step out. I,ve never hit one but I have stopped a foot away from em plenty of times.. often not even getting a glance.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby whale » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:06 am

the ped' was an older woman, so its not hard to imagine that even a slow speed collision has the potential to cause significant injuries. I'm just glad we do not have trams to contend with in Brisbane.[/quote]

No , I suppose all the people who catch trams should be driving cars . Idiotic
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:10 am

Percrime wrote:You dont have to stop until the tram is stopped.

the australian road rule (163) actually says:
(1) A driver must comply with this rule if:
(a) the driver is driving behind the rear of a tram travelling in the same direction as the driver; and
(b) the tram stops at a tram stop, except at the far left side of the road;
..

i'd be careful about interpreting that in the way you have. it's possible that the tram is stopping when it starts slowing down.

in any case, it only applies if you are behind the tram. although it's a bit unclear when that applies, it certainly doesn't if you are alongside or in front of it.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:11 am

whale wrote:
Oxford wrote:the ped' was an older woman, so its not hard to imagine that even a slow speed collision has the potential to cause significant injuries. I'm just glad we do not have trams to contend with in Brisbane.


No , I suppose all the people who catch trams should be driving cars . Idiotic

let others be the judge of the quality of your posts
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Percrime » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:29 am

jules21 wrote:
Percrime wrote:You dont have to stop until the tram is stopped.

the australian road rule (163) actually says:
(1) A driver must comply with this rule if:
(a) the driver is driving behind the rear of a tram travelling in the same direction as the driver; and
(b) the tram stops at a tram stop, except at the far left side of the road;
..

i'd be careful about interpreting that in the way you have. it's possible that the tram is stopping when it starts slowing down.

in any case, it only applies if you are behind the tram. although it's a bit unclear when that applies, it certainly doesn't if you are alongside or in front of it.


WTH does that mean? CLearly I am talking about when the rider is beside the tram.. if the tram starts slowing you don't have to. (Yes given all the other caveats about due care) If you are beside it and it stops then you have to stop. At some point its nearly stopped.. you aint getting past it before it stops and you need to stop too. BUT just because the tram starts to brake and a tram stop is there does not mean the person alongside has to brake. THats how I and every one else in Melbourne and Bendigo interprets the law. Problem?
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:05 am

easy tiger. i was talking about if you were behind the tram.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Oxford » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:09 am

whale wrote:
Oxford wrote:the ped' was an older woman, so its not hard to imagine that even a slow speed collision has the potential to cause significant injuries. I'm just glad we do not have trams to contend with in Brisbane.


No , I suppose all the people who catch trams should be driving cars . Idiotic

Image I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you please be a little less cryptic? If it helps, I am commenting on the sad state of driving capabilities in Brisbane where having trams would just be another thing to confuse the dear dumb Brisbane motoring public.
I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Kenzo » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:53 am

jules21 wrote:
whale wrote:
Oxford wrote:the ped' was an older woman, so its not hard to imagine that even a slow speed collision has the potential to cause significant injuries. I'm just glad we do not have trams to contend with in Brisbane.


No , I suppose all the people who catch trams should be driving cars . Idiotic

let others be the judge of the quality of your posts

Beached as bro..
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby whale » Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:51 am

No , I suppose all the people who catch trams should be driving cars . Idiotic[/quote]
let others be the judge of the quality of your posts[/quote]
Beached as bro..[/quote]


Sorry Oxford , I may have mis interpreted your post .

As for your fanboy defenders , I did'nt realise you had to post acres of drivel to have a voice
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Percrime » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:17 pm

jules21 wrote:easy tiger. i was talking about if you were behind the tram.


Nah.. I just couldnt see the connection. We all know that peds step out for trams. Those of us in Melb know why its an issue, usually annoying and not dangerous but.... we can see a way that accident could arise where the (woman) cyclist was not at fault.

Especially perhaps those of us who pretty often overtake trams. who also understand that being just behind a tram.. with the many cars desperate to overtake it is a bloody dangerous place to be. Probably the most dangerous place to be.. it makes being outside a private school at 9:am look not so bad. In front of a tram when cars are all stuck behind it unable to overtake because of parked cars is actually a really safe place to be, especially for cyclists who can average tram speeds or above. So fastish cyclists do want to get around trams where they can. So do cars trucks and motorcycles for that matter, but it is easier on a bicycle.

Which is not to say that that is what happened.. but that's where I was going
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby jules21 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:23 pm

Percrime wrote:Especially perhaps those of us who pretty often overtake trams. who also understand that being just behind a tram.. with the many cars desperate to overtake it is a bloody dangerous place to be.

i just take the lane there - leave them no ability to squeeze past.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Kenzo » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:31 pm

whale wrote:Sorry Oxford , I may have mis interpreted your post .

As for your fanboy defenders , I did'nt realise you had to post acres of drivel to have a voice

Nah you don't have to post heaps.. you just need to post something relevant, interesting.. importantly though, it should be coherent.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby KonaCommuter » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:18 pm

Saw footage on the news this morning as I was cooling down from my commute to work (I rock). The bike in question was a black K-Mart Special. That’s not me being a bike snob either.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby trailgumby » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:33 pm

Kenzo wrote:
whale wrote:Sorry Oxford , I may have mis interpreted your post .

As for your fanboy defenders , I did'nt realise you had to post acres of drivel to have a voice

Nah you don't have to post heaps.. you just need to post something relevant, interesting.. importantly though, it should be coherent.

... and relevant.

Sorry, mr whale, we're having trouble making the logical leap between Oxford commenting on how seemingly low impact levels can have disproportionate consequences for the elderly, and your comment sarcastically proposing that tram users should be in cars instead.

Care to enlighten us? 'Cos we're not gettin' it. :?
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby KonaCommuter » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:51 pm

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/tech ... 6219477832


Image



PEOPLE are being injured or killed because they are distracted by texting or talking on mobile phones while crossing roads.

And no one knows how bad the problem is because there are no official figures.

Police, paramedics and pedestrian groups believe using mobile devices while walking can be almost as dangerous as using a phone while driving.
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Re: cyclist mows down pedestrian getting off tram in Melb

Postby Percrime » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:50 pm

So today.. going into town on the new bike lane on Swanson St (Melb)
Ped goes to cross it in front of me.. texting.. changes his mind.. goes back and then changes his mind again ambles straight down the bike lane. I roll up behind him.. breath in deeply and yell "BOOO".

THe man had reflexes that could see him buried one day. His jump was a good 1.5 seconds later . I did get a laugh from the many spectators.

SO much meat wasted on so few neurons.
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