Getting away with murder

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Getting away with murder

Postby il padrone » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:01 pm

A series of sorry tales of cyclists dead or mutilated, and drivers guilty who literally get away with murder :evil:
Last edited by il padrone on Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:17 pm

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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:17 pm

WHY WHY WHY? :evil:
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby Oxford » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:34 am

I don't necessarily like what I read in the link and think the decisions are outrageous in some cases, but lets be clear, murder implies premeditation which in most of those cases is not present. aside from that, some of those decisions are just pathetic.
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby il padrone » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:46 am

Yep, know that. Just put it down to a bit of artistic license :wink:

It's the underlying societal beliefs behind the decisions, and the lack of legal responsibility for the offenders that galls me.
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby jules21 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:24 am

some of those are not that outrageous. however, the case of scott peoples is particularly so. the abject failure and refusal of authorities to take any action to stop a guy, and any others like him in the future, who was an accident waiting to happen is utterly exasperating.
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby Oxford » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:49 pm

il padrone wrote:Yep, know that. Just put it down to a bit of artistic license :wink:

It's the underlying societal beliefs behind the decisions, and the lack of legal responsibility for the offenders that galls me.
is that why its Morder and not Murder? :mrgreen: We're just murdering the English language. Image
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby KonaCommuter » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:22 pm

Far stiffer sentences need to be meted out for negligent driving. It has always angered me that driving is treated so preferentially.

I recall during the so called gun debate of 96 that one of the justifications from the thieves was “If it only saves one life” and any retort mentioning the road toll was met with derision.


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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby ozdavo » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:28 pm

Oxford wrote:murder implies premeditation.

*only intent, not premeditation :wink:
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby il padrone » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:35 pm

Oxford wrote:is that why its Morder and not Murder? :mrgreen: We're just murdering the English language.

:oops: :oops:


:lol:
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby KonaCommuter » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:38 pm

ozdavo wrote:
Oxford wrote:murder implies premeditation.

*only intent, not premeditation :wink:



Wondering out loud here. But why not manslaughter?
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby Oxford » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:05 pm

KonaCommuter wrote:
ozdavo wrote:
Oxford wrote:murder implies premeditation.

*only intent, not premeditation :wink:



Wondering out loud here. But why not manslaughter?

ozdavo is right, got my technicalities mixed.

IP, please tell me you're not an English teacher. :mrgreen: :P
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby wombatK » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:12 pm

Oxford wrote:... but lets be clear, murder implies premeditation which in most of those cases is not present.

Premeditated ? Characterized by deliberate purpose, previous consideration, and some degree of planning ?

Yeah, nobody ever gets into a car and drives it without deliberate purpose, any degree of planning, or the slightest consideration that they could actually kill someone. So how the hell could he have formed any intent to kill (i.e. murder) ?

Luke Shields had not planned his trips to get drugs, had not premeditated that he might drive into someone while in his drug-addled state, nor gave his murderous driving any previous consideration (and hence intent). Nor did his drug-taking have the slightest pre-meditation or intent. It was magical forces that drove the needle into his arm every day, or maybe his genes compelled him to behave this way from birth, or maybe he was abused as a child etc.,. etc., He definitely didn't intend any of these outcomes.

But of course, we should believe it very plausible that he turns this all around when he gets to court and intended to get a lesser sentence when he pleaded guilty etc.,. and the first court really did him over in not meeting his expectations. Fortunately, the appeal judge could see that Shields was capable of intentions, and reasonably recognized that it should respect them.

Certainly was hard done by, and should be beaten with a feather and released immediately. With a free and large overdose of heroin.

That would be a nice Xmas present for cyclists.
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Re: Getting away with murder

Postby jules21 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:38 pm

with respect wombat, i think you're confusing the premeditated act of getting behind the wheel in a state that you know will endager others, with the premeditated act of deliberately killing someone. they're not the same, although both are deplorable.
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Re: Getting away with murder

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:44 pm

jules21 wrote:with respect wombat, i think you're confusing the premeditated act of getting behind the wheel in a state that you know will endager others, with the premeditated act of deliberately killing someone. they're not the same, although both are deplorable.


IMO they should be regarded as the same. End result is someone being killed or maimed.
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Re: Getting away with murder

Postby notwal » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:38 am

That would make a good murder ploy wouldn't it. Wait 'till the victim gets on his bike. Follow him around in your 4x4 and just run over him at a roundabout. You wouldn't have to dispose of the body or the murder weapon or come up with an alibi. It would be just a case of run him down and say it was a terrible accident. Sweet.
It wouldn't work more than twice though so if you had a few on your hit list it would be wise to get them all on a bunch ride. No one would suspect it was anything more than a case of carelessness.

Lets see, how to avoid a charge of negligent driving causing death? Blame the cyclists. Wait in ambush by a stop sign and clobber them all at once. Everyone knows cyclist have scant regard for stop signs and if they ignore them then killing is too good for them. They would not only let you off but no doubt award you a sizeable grant to pay for counselling. You could charge shock jocks a hefty fee for interviews and sell your story to TDT or some such sensation mongering tabloid TV.

Murder concealed in the overwhelming statistical noise of the road toll. What a great idea. Hmmm I wonder if anyone else thought of it...
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Re: Getting away with murder

Postby jules21 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:24 am

notwal wrote:Murder concealed in the overwhelming statistical noise of the road toll. What a great idea. Hmmm I wonder if anyone else thought of it...

my understanding is that the police's interest is piqued when they learn that both parties in a collision knew each other, and even more so when there was a motive involved :)
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Re: Getting away with morder

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:26 am

Oxford wrote:I don't necessarily like what I read in the link and think the decisions are outrageous in some cases, but lets be clear, murder implies premeditation which in most of those cases is not present. aside from that, some of those decisions are just pathetic.


Yes, and the "literal" tag is of no consequence either. Let the journos misuse the term to mean extreme in situations that are patently NOT literal.

I suppose ten years is still a substantial sentence though as the government beak pointed out in the appeal process, it is only serendipity that it was not TWO deaths. Blood alcohol approaching five times the legal limit, high on LSD and on the way to buy more dope, unregistered vehicle and unlicensed driver. Perhaps in this case it would have been more just to sentence as though it was a double homicide.
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Re: Getting away with murder

Postby il padrone » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:07 pm

Hmm, yes, terminological abuse :wink: Literally should be virtually.
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Re: Getting away with murder

Postby Percrime » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:09 pm

I do know of a bloke who has been involved with 3 motorcycling accidents.. two of them deaths. And had a very unpleasant divorce with a motorcyclist. And no he is not in jail (or wasnt when this was current news 15 years ago)
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