Cyclists fined in Sydney

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Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby DaveOZ » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:17 am

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by BNA » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:33 am

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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby sogood » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:33 am

And the Queen Mary 2 is in town too. ;)

Seriously, there has already been policing in the past few weeks and that should have been enough warning that a big one is coming. Those who run red lights in mass police presence gets no sympathy from me.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby sogood » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:44 am

Today's action is also looking a bit like a political stunt by Barry O'Farrell.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/s ... 6291172647
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby find_bruce » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:32 am

Yep the cops have been in exactly the same spot at least one morning per week for the last month & it's not like they are hiding - as you see from the pics this is an example of visible police presence.
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As long as they keep picking up these sort of numbers, you can pretty much bet they will keep being there, just like they were for a month or so last year in the evenings. It's a high profile area & will get high profile policing.

I am curious though as to how many tickets for jaywalking they issued at the same intersection.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby grimbo » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:10 pm

There were also a couple of regular cops standing by the pedestrian crossing 20 metres before this intersection, I would guess waiting to book cyclists not giving way to pedestrians? First time I've seen that.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby find_bruce » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:53 pm

grimbo wrote:There were also a couple of regular cops standing by the pedestrian crossing 20 metres before this intersection, I would guess waiting to book cyclists not giving way to pedestrians? First time I've seen that.

What you have never seen cyclists not giving way to pedestrians ? Oh no wait I get it now :D

Did you seen anyone at Union & Edward St, because I have only ever seen the bike lights go green 5 times in the last 12 months ?
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Sydguy » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:56 pm

Pretty much an all out war on cyclists now.

Never fear BNSW has your back.

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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby grimbo » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:04 pm

find_bruce wrote:
grimbo wrote:There were also a couple of regular cops standing by the pedestrian crossing 20 metres before this intersection, I would guess waiting to book cyclists not giving way to pedestrians? First time I've seen that.

What you have never seen cyclists not giving way to pedestrians ? Oh no wait I get it now :D

Did you seen anyone at Union & Edward St, because I have only ever seen the bike lights go green 5 times in the last 12 months ?


I ditched those bike lanes months ago. To slow, crowded and slippery. As for the bike lights - I think they forgot to connect them.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:09 pm

DaveOZ wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/a-bridge-too-fast-police-target--unsafe--cyclists--but-not-for-speeding-20120307-1uj6c.html


Huh, what's with this?


City Central Local Area Command Traffic Sergeant Stewart Lockrey said cyclists were not being picked up for speeding.
He said speeding was an offence that doesn't technically exist for bike riders, who can instead be fined for riding negligently or dangerously.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:12 pm

Sydguy wrote:Pretty much an all out war on cyclists now.


Is "war" the right term for booking people for running red lights or not wearing a helmet?

Are the police at "war" with motorists when they set up a speed camera targetting them?
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby find_bruce » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:27 pm

Inwood wrote:Huh, what's with this?
City Central Local Area Command Traffic Sergeant Stewart Lockrey said cyclists were not being picked up for speeding.
He said speeding was an offence that doesn't technically exist for bike riders, who can instead be fined for riding negligently or dangerously.

It's possible that the Traffic Sergeant doesn't know the law, but I am not going to tell him that. :wink: Oh & he forgot "furiously" (rule 245-1)

There is also a pretty good argument (at least IMO) that the signs put up by the Sydney Harbour Forsehore Authority are not in accordance with the road rules & so there is no speed limit on pyrmont bridge anyway
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Boognoss » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:21 pm

Sydguy wrote:Pretty much an all out war on cyclists now.

Never fear BNSW has your back.

JM


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby rokwiz » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:43 pm

Would you ride through the Pitt St mall at 25km/h + so why not slow down on the Pyrmont bridge, as stated on this parrallel thread. The old Darling Harbour Authority never allowed cycling on this bridge or in any part of Darling Harbour so I see this as a kind of priviedge to ride over it, granted slowly but who cares does it really matter how fast you get to work.Slow down relax look at the view. Otherwise you start to sound like a another impatient motorist.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby blkmcs » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:35 pm

Boognoss wrote:
Sydguy wrote:Pretty much an all out war on cyclists now.

Never fear BNSW has your back.

JM


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:38 pm

find_bruce wrote:There is also a pretty good argument (at least IMO) that the signs put up by the Sydney Harbour Forsehore Authority are not in accordance with the road rules & so there is no speed limit on pyrmont bridge anyway

A 10kmh 'speed' limit, on a bridge with a rise and fall to it is patently ridiculous. 10kmh is very nearly 'fall-over' speed for cyclists. It is generally a fair bit more hazardous to ride this slow than to cruise at 15-20 with brake modulation.

I hope the police are also prosecuting pedestrians who walk across in front of cyclists as well ?? That is a road rule infraction. Prosecution or persecution I wonder :?:

It is quite ludicrous that a facility like the Pyrmont Bridge does not have a clearly delineated, colour-coded and even kerb-seperated bike lane.... yes, bike lane on which pedestrians are legally not allowed to walk along.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby sogood » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:44 pm

il padrone wrote:...Pyrmont Bridge does not have a clearly delineated, colour-coded and even kerb-seperated bike lane.... yes, bike lane on which pedestrians are legally not allowed to walk along.

Not realistic given it's a major tourist location. Rode through The Rocks today and saw a tourist crossing the road whilst whilst fiddling with his camera setting. Absolutely no attention to surrounding traffic.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby ruscook » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:49 pm

blkmcs wrote:
Boognoss wrote:
Sydguy wrote:Pretty much an all out war on cyclists now.

Never fear BNSW has your back.

JM


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Maybe correct, but I've asked the following of BNSW via their contact page:
Can you tell me what plans BNSW has to protest the NSW Premier's approach to Sydney transport and the lack of understanding and support for cycling?

Related article published here: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/s ... 6291172647

Thanks

Look forward to seeing what response I get.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby trailgumby » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:40 pm

grimbo wrote:
find_bruce wrote:
grimbo wrote:There were also a couple of regular cops standing by the pedestrian crossing 20 metres before this intersection, I would guess waiting to book cyclists not giving way to pedestrians? First time I've seen that.

What you have never seen cyclists not giving way to pedestrians ? Oh no wait I get it now :D

Did you seen anyone at Union & Edward St, because I have only ever seen the bike lights go green 5 times in the last 12 months ?


I ditched those bike lanes months ago. To slow, crowded and slippery. As for the bike lights - I think they forgot to connect them.

Yair, but they're not really aimed at us, are they? They're intended much more for those for whom the thought of cycling in snarly agressive Sydney traffic is enough to turn them off cycling. And so far as I can tell, they're achieving that aim. Lots more non-lycra cyclists and more females, too.

Me, I prefer Hickson Rd and Sussex Street for North-South travel. Little traffic, fewer lights, and a nice climb up to the Bridge to warm up the legs :D
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby KonaCommuter » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:56 pm

For the love of all that is good. Why do the haters focus on what a cyclist is wearing aka “lycra”? And what’s with all the TDF comparisons?
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby wombatK » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:00 pm

find_bruce wrote:It's possible that the Traffic Sergeant doesn't know the law, but I am not going to tell him that. :wink: Oh & he forgot "furiously" (rule 245-1)

It's an extraordinary statement from the Traffic Sergeant given that Rule 20 is crystal clear about a driver's responsibility,
and makes no exception for bicyclist from the term driver in this rule...
Rule 20 wrote:20 Obeying the speed-limit
A driver must not drive at a speed over the speed-limit applying to the driver for the length of road where the driver
is driving.
Offence provision.
Note 1 The rules about speed-limits are as follows:
• rule 21 — speed-limit where a speed-limit sign applies
• rule 22 — speed-limit in a speed-limited area
• rule 23 — speed-limit in a school zone
• rule 24 — speed-limit in a shared zone
• rule 25 — speed-limit elsewhere.
Note 2 Road includes a road-related area — see rule 11 (2).
Note 3 Length of road includes a marked lane, a part of a marked lane,
or another part of a length of road — see the definition in the dictionary.
Note 4 Part 20, Division 2 deals with the way in which a traffic sign
applies to a length of road. Part 20, Division 3 deals with the way in
which the traffic sign applies to drivers driving on the length of road.

West Australian police, who use essentially the same Australian Road Rules,
had no difficulty deciding they could nab the cyclist who was speeding in a
school zone recently
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby rokwiz » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:37 am

Road rules aside, Does anyone use any common bloody sense, I would like to see these jokers riding down my neck of the woods when the sheep are grazing on the roads or the cattlemen are droving steers. Are they going to slow down or plow through them and start a stampede.
Yeh il padrone the flat bridge itself is 10km not the ramps and the bridge itself is a heritage tourist site, that why there's peds always wandering al over it, bit like those Yarra ped bridges in Melbourne.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Oxford » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:07 am

wombatK wrote:
find_bruce wrote:It's possible that the Traffic Sergeant doesn't know the law, but I am not going to tell him that. :wink: Oh & he forgot "furiously" (rule 245-1)

It's an extraordinary statement from the Traffic Sergeant given that Rule 20 is crystal clear about a driver's responsibility,
and makes no exception for bicyclist from the term driver in this rule...
Rule 20 wrote:20 Obeying the speed-limit
A driver must not drive at a speed over the speed-limit applying to the driver for the length of road where the driver
is driving.
Offence provision.
Note 1 The rules about speed-limits are as follows:
• rule 21 — speed-limit where a speed-limit sign applies
• rule 22 — speed-limit in a speed-limited area
• rule 23 — speed-limit in a school zone
• rule 24 — speed-limit in a shared zone
• rule 25 — speed-limit elsewhere.
Note 2 Road includes a road-related area — see rule 11 (2).
Note 3 Length of road includes a marked lane, a part of a marked lane,
or another part of a length of road — see the definition in the dictionary.
Note 4 Part 20, Division 2 deals with the way in which a traffic sign
applies to a length of road. Part 20, Division 3 deals with the way in
which the traffic sign applies to drivers driving on the length of road.

West Australian police, who use essentially the same Australian Road Rules,
had no difficulty deciding they could nab the cyclist who was speeding in a
school zone recently

I think he's talking a technicality in that the area may not be able to have speed signs, so the only charge they can try is one of recklessness. funny as that is harder to write up and is more subjective than speeding. as I said in another post, if cyclists want respect, they need to ride with respect. its as simple as that.
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Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby find_bruce » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:05 pm

Oxford wrote:... if cyclists want respect, they need to ride with respect. its as simple as that.

it's a catchy phrase & I wish it were true. Logic & reason are of no use to change people's opinions or behaviour if they didn't use logic or reason to get there in the first place, at least in my experience.

& that goes for both some car drivers & some cyclists
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby find_bruce » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:12 am

find_bruce wrote:It's possible that the Traffic Sergeant doesn't know the law, but I am not going to tell him that. :wink: Oh & he forgot "furiously" (rule 245-1)

wombatK wrote:It's an extraordinary statement from the Traffic Sergeant given that Rule 20 is crystal clear about a driver's responsibility, and makes no exception for bicyclist from the term driver in this rule...

I have been a bit busy of late but had a few minutes to turn my mind to this. There is a part of rule 20 which doesn't appear in what you quoted, the importance of which will becomer clear later.
Road Rule 20 Obeying the speed limit wrote:A driver must not drive at a speed over the speed limit applying to the driver for the length of road where the driver is driving.
Penalty and disqualification: a driver who contravenes this rule is guilty of an offence and is liable to a maximum penalty and a period of disqualification (if any) determined in accordance with rule 10–2.

I agree with you that rule 20 is crystal clear - a cyclist is a driver & required to comply with applicable speed limits (no need to re-hash the discussion in relation to particular places).

Road Rule 10-2 specifies the maximum penalty according to the speed in excess of the limit - more than 45, 30-45 and less than 30. I would expect that almost any speeding by a cyclist will fall in the category of 30km per hour or less, which means the maximum fine is 20 penalty units, currently $2,200.

The usual way of dealing with speeding offences though is to issue a penalty notice and this is where it gets murky. The issueing of penalty notices is set out in the Road Transport (General) Regulation 2005 (NSW). The penalty notice offences, who can issue the penalty & the amount are set out in schedule 3. In relation to rule 20, they are set out by reference to the class of motor vehicle,
(a) in the case of a class A motor vehicle and otherwise than in school zone ...
(b) in the case of a class B motor vehicle and otherwise than in school zone ...
(c) in the case of a class C motor vehicle and otherwise than in school zone ...

There are then separate provisions for school zones etc. The important point though is that a bicycle is not a motor vehicle of any class.

Unless there is something I am missing, this means a police officer cannot issue a penalty notice for speeding on a bicycle. Accordingly the only way to enforce rule 20 in relation to a cyclist is to issue a court attendance notice. If the offence is proven, a cyclist who exceeds the speed limit by 30 km per hour or less will be liable to a fine of up to $2,200.

So the Police can't issue a speeding ticket to a cyclist, but they could, if so inclined, drag you off to court & the court could, but probably won't, issue a very serious fine.
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Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:02 pm

That is very interesting Bruce. Thanks for the research into this.
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