Cyclists fined in Sydney

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby greyhoundtom » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:49 pm

Since when is a bicycle rider considered a driver?

From my reading of the national rules a driver is only considered as driving a motor vehicle, not riding a bicycle.
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2547
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

by BNA » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:09 pm

BNA
 

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:09 pm

driver means any person driving a vehicle or animal;

vehicle includes —
(a) every conveyance, not being a train, vessel or aircraft,
and every object capable of being propelled or drawn,
on wheels or tracks, by any means; and
(b) where the context permits, an animal being driven or
ridden;

Road Traffic Act 1974

so in WA a cyclist has been a driver under the law for at least the past 38 years ....

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20153
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:28 pm

In Victoria Rule 16 expressly defines a driver as someone driving a vehicle (except for motorbikes, bicycles, animals and animal-drawn vehicles).....

but then it goes on to say this in Rule 19 :? :?

Victorian Road Rules wrote:19 References to driver includes rider etc.
Unless otherwise expressly stated a reference in these Rules (except in this Division) to a driver includes a reference to a rider, and a reference in these Rules (except in this Division) to driving includes a reference to riding.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18437
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:50 pm

il padrone wrote:In Victoria Rule 16 expressly defines a driver as someone driving a vehicle (except for motorbikes, bicycles, animals and animal-drawn vehicles).....

but then it goes on to say this in Rule 19 :? :?

Victorian Road Rules wrote:19 References to driver includes rider etc.
Unless otherwise expressly stated a reference in these Rules (except in this Division) to a driver includes a reference to a rider, and a reference in these Rules (except in this Division) to driving includes a reference to riding.


Do you have a link to the Victorian road code and if applicable its parent Act?

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20153
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby CommuRider » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:00 pm

A colleague at work got fined at Pyrmont bridge today for not wearing a helmet? $56 I think. He is Dutch (oh the irony).
Amateur oenologist and green-friendly commuter.
User avatar
CommuRider
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:16 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:50 pm

Aushiker wrote:Do you have a link to the Victorian road code and if applicable its parent Act?

Hi Andrew

There is no direct link. I posted about it here. You need to go to the www.legislation.vic.gov.au site, select Victorian Law Today and search for the relevant law to download.

Going by this, the parent act for the Road Rules 2009 is the Road Safety Act 1986.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18437
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Sydguy » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:27 pm

I got fined tonight for running a red light in Pyrmont, there goes $59.

Serves me right for using the bike path, if there had not been cops everywhere I would of been on the road and I don't run reds on the road unless it is super early/late and no one for miles around.

Totally understand I broke the law and I was very polite to the officer, given he stopped three people but the other too just accelerated and vanished whilst I dutifully stayed to face the music. I was first through and slowed up so the cop focused on me but he directed the other to stop, they kept going.

He asked me a few questions and I answered truthfully. Do you often run red lights? On cycle ways yes because I generally commute very early and then very late so otherwise I'd be waiting around like a numpty. The cycle lights on Kent I never run because the peds are busy running reds and the last thing I want to do is hit one.

They seem very unwise to the way of the bike, when he asked for my license I gave him driving and cycling license, he'd never see a cycling license. It was news to him that we pay and are insured etc...

Pretty sure if I lied and said I never run reds then I would of gotten off with a warning. The police further down towards the city were not so book happy. The bike light failed to trigger but the group took off in line with the green for peds. They did not stop anyone. Pretty sure the cops don't want to be there but they follow orders like everyone else really.

I would not have raced into an amber/red light if the trains worked, my wife could not get to our 2 year old so I was fanging it to get him. Still think they should be on Anzac Bridge or just random intersections in the city that people queue across and hold everyone up on.

I was thinking about it on the way home as I had to make up for lost time, filtering left right and centre, blowing through stop signs and running reds... just joking. But I don't think I'll ride any differently other than completely avoid the bike paths leading onto the Pyrmont Bridge. They just don't work for me at the times I usually go through.

JM
Sydguy
 
Posts: 749
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: Sydney (Rhodes to City Commuter)

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby greyhoundtom » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:50 pm

il padrone wrote:In Victoria Rule 16 expressly defines a driver as someone driving a vehicle (except for motorbikes, bicycles, animals and animal-drawn vehicles).....

but then it goes on to say this in Rule 19 :? :?

Victorian Road Rules wrote:19 References to driver includes rider etc.
Unless otherwise expressly stated a reference in these Rules (except in this Division) to a driver includes a reference to a rider, and a reference in these Rules (except in this Division) to driving includes a reference to riding.

Looks like I'm wrong again, and should have kept reading past Rule 16 :oops:
User avatar
greyhoundtom
 
Posts: 2547
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Narre Warren, Victoria

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby CommuRider » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:56 pm

Oh well @Sydguy, good on you for taking it on the chin. It hurts less than a parking ticket and you educated the cop with your CA licence. Anyway, the cops surely must realise the bike lights aren't working effectively. Targeting a group that would reduce congestion, reduce road rage, I feel for them when the directive must have come from the top.

The pyschos heading the govt are illogically crazy and they won't see reason at all. No wonder why both Bazza and Duncan are obese.

And another traffic nightmare on Syd roads tonight too. Sometimes, dealing with promoters of Sydney roads - NRMA, RTA - is like dealing with the Spanish inquisition. But the more bikes out there zooming past Vic and Parra rd car parks will at least encourage some...a few?...drivers to switch to two wheels...I hope.
Amateur oenologist and green-friendly commuter.
User avatar
CommuRider
 
Posts: 5053
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:16 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:18 pm

il padrone wrote:
Aushiker wrote:Do you have a link to the Victorian road code and if applicable its parent Act?

Hi Andrew

There is no direct link. I posted about it here. You need to go to the http://www.legislation.vic.gov.au site, select Victorian Law Today and search for the relevant law to download.

Going by this, the parent act for the Road Rules 2009 is the Road Safety Act 1986.


Thanks.

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20153
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:24 pm

il padrone wrote:In Victoria Rule 16 expressly defines a driver as someone driving a vehicle (except for motorbikes, bicycles, animals and animal-drawn vehicles).....

but then it goes on to say this in Rule 19 :? :?

Victorian Road Rules wrote:19 References to driver includes rider etc.
Unless otherwise expressly stated a reference in these Rules (except in this Division) to a driver includes a reference to a rider, and a reference in these Rules (except in this Division) to driving includes a reference to riding.


The Readers Guide at the end of the Road Safety Road Rules 2009 might be handy for getting an understanding of the use of the term rider and driver.

Drivers and riders
The Road Rules are generally expressed to apply to drivers of vehicles, since they are the largest category of road users. A driver is the person driving or otherwise in control of a vehicle. For example, a person steering and pushing a stalled motor vehicle would be in control of the vehicle and be the "driver". Persons riding, or otherwise in control of, motor bikes or animal-drawn vehicles, or riding bicycles or animals, are called "riders", rather than drivers. The Road Rules generally apply to them in the same way as they apply to drivers.

In the Road Rules, a reference to a "driver" generally includes a rider. If a particular rule does not apply to riders, or applies only to particular kinds of riders, this is stated in the rule.
The definition of a "vehicle" (also in Part 2) is very broad and is not exhaustive. It includes, for example, motorised wheelchairs that can travel over 10 kilometres per hour.

However, it does not include trains. The driving of trains is not covered by these Rules. A reference in these Rules to a vehicle does not include wheeled recreational devices or wheeled toys. Riders of wheeled recreational devices and wheeled toys are treated as pedestrians.

Although most of these Rules apply to vehicles of all kinds and to both drivers and riders, there are some rules that apply only to particular drivers or riders. For example, the rules in Part 15 apply only to bicycle riders, and the rules in Part 17 apply only to the drivers of trams and public buses.


Also you need to take into consideration Regulation 17 which defines a rider. They do this as there are specific regulations applicable only to riders it seems.

17 Who is a rider
(1) A rider is the person who is riding a motor bike, bicycle, animal or animal-drawn vehicle.

Notes
1 Bicycle and motor bike are defined in the dictionary.
2 Ride, for the rider of a motor bike or animal-drawn vehicle, includes be in control of—see the definition in
the dictionary.
(2) A rider does not include—
(a) a passenger; or
(b) a person walking beside and pushing a bicycle.


Add in your previously quoted Regulation 19 and you are back to common definition of a rider being a driver.

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20153
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: Cyclists fined in Sydney

Postby grimbo » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:31 am

Sydguy wrote:I got fined tonight for running a red light in Pyrmont, there goes $59.

Serves me right for using the bike path, <snip>


So you got fined for running a Bike red light, not a regular traffic red light?

Thanks for the warning, I have always treated those bike traffic lights as suggestions, didn't realise they were actually enforceable with a fine.

I do avoid the bike paths leading onto the Pyrmont Bridge, and am actually thinking of avoiding the king street ones (going up) as well, as the bike-light phasing is so annoying. Just have to figure if there's a way to merge into the king street traffic earlier without getting killed.
"If I can bicycle, I bicycle" ~David Attenborough
User avatar
grimbo
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:38 pm
Location: Sydney

Previous

Return to Cycling Safety and Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit