Vote for Anna...

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby Oxford » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:44 pm

high_tea wrote:
Inwood wrote:Won't it be a step up from the current situation, where as long as the motorist doesn't hit you, or cause you to take action to avoid a collision, the police won't do anything apart from maybe speak to the driver? If there is a specific rule against reckless driving near cyclists, our video evidence may turn out to be a lot more effective.

I don't think there's any single magic bullet here. But surely a specific rule about driving recklessly near cyclists is one positive step in the right direction? On its own it won't make a significant difference but a combination of a whole lot of things (eg. such as better driver education/testing) can reduce the risks.


p7 of the policy document RonK linked to states:

we will amend the Criminal Code offence of Dangerous Driving to include a specific provision which will increase the penalty if the dangerous driving deliberately or recklessly endangers a cyclist. The penalties will increase from a maximum 200 penalty units ($20,000) or 3 years imprisonment to a
maximum penalty of 400 penalty units ($40,000) or 5 years imprisonment under the new provision.


So, no specific offence, just a circumstance of aggravation to dangerous driving. Not a bad thing, but it doesn't change the standard of behaviour one bit. It just increases the penalties.

exactly and yours, mine, drivers, the police's version of what constitutes reckless endangerment will vary. going by past experience, unless the police think it is a lock if it goes to court, they do nothing.

sorry its just another law that would be enforced in retrospect (police either have to see it or you have to get hurt) rather than actively (cyclist makes complaint with supporting evidence or witnesses), so its a waste of time IMO.
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by BNA » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:26 pm

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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby Xplora » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:26 pm

Vote for Anna based on this? RonK, are you an ALP member?

I think it would be more effective to promise a new enforcement regime where the police would be forced to investigate serious cases of danger, and that this level of danger would be publicised and enforceable by an Ombudsman. There is a big difference between what a driver and a ped or cyclist feels is dangerous. Maybe we need some cops to stand next to the main road in the gutter to find out how safe they feel with the trucks going past? :twisted:
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby RonK » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:22 pm

Xplora wrote:Vote for Anna based on this? RonK, are you an ALP member?

Hehe - no, I'm a swinging voter left dangling by the unpalatable choices offered on all sides of Queensland politics. Wait a minute! On second thoughts, make that Australian politics. :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

But let's leave my political inclinations out of this discussion, which is about cycling safety. For what it is worth, I think there's a good chance this change would be enacted - it's one election promise that would cost nothing to deliver.

As to whether it would be enforced - well that is another thing. But it most definitely won't be enforceable if it does not exist.

Still waiting to hear a policy on cycle safety (cycle anything) from the other parties. But Newman is known for buying motorists votes by removing bus lanes and building bridges, tunnels and roads. Voters in my ALP-held council ward have been on the receiving end of the rates increases levied to fund them, so he has not made a good start with me... :twisted:

And no doubt the mad hatter's party thinks anyone who would wear lycra is gay, and should be marginalized. :evil:
Last edited by RonK on Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby Comedian » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:59 pm

Oxford wrote:
high_tea wrote:
Inwood wrote:Won't it be a step up from the current situation, where as long as the motorist doesn't hit you, or cause you to take action to avoid a collision, the police won't do anything apart from maybe speak to the driver? If there is a specific rule against reckless driving near cyclists, our video evidence may turn out to be a lot more effective.

I don't think there's any single magic bullet here. But surely a specific rule about driving recklessly near cyclists is one positive step in the right direction? On its own it won't make a significant difference but a combination of a whole lot of things (eg. such as better driver education/testing) can reduce the risks.


p7 of the policy document RonK linked to states:

we will amend the Criminal Code offence of Dangerous Driving to include a specific provision which will increase the penalty if the dangerous driving deliberately or recklessly endangers a cyclist. The penalties will increase from a maximum 200 penalty units ($20,000) or 3 years imprisonment to a
maximum penalty of 400 penalty units ($40,000) or 5 years imprisonment under the new provision.

I've noticed a real trend with this government on a range of issues... and that is to increase penalties massively and then not really enforce it. I think the idea is to make the penalty so utterly eye watering that people will avoid the behaviour... saving having to worry about enforcement. And if they do enforce it it's very very lucrative. I'm not a fan of that.

So, no specific offence, just a circumstance of aggravation to dangerous driving. Not a bad thing, but it doesn't change the standard of behaviour one bit. It just increases the penalties.

exactly and yours, mine, drivers, the police's version of what constitutes reckless endangerment will vary. going by past experience, unless the police think it is a lock if it goes to court, they do nothing.

sorry its just another law that would be enforced in retrospect (police either have to see it or you have to get hurt) rather than actively (cyclist makes complaint with supporting evidence or witnesses), so its a waste of time IMO.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby myforwik » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:54 pm

high_tea wrote:
Inwood wrote:
we will amend the Criminal Code offence of Dangerous Driving to include a specific provision which will increase the penalty if the dangerous driving deliberately or recklessly endangers a cyclist. The penalties will increase from a maximum 200 penalty units ($20,000) or 3 years imprisonment to a
maximum penalty of 400 penalty units ($40,000) or 5 years imprisonment under the new provision.


So, no specific offence, just a circumstance of aggravation to dangerous driving. Not a bad thing, but it doesn't change the standard of behaviour one bit. It just increases the penalties.


Exactally. She has promised nothing. When was the last time someone got 3 years? PEOPLE KILL CYCLISTS AND DON'T EVEN GET 3 YEARS. *increasing* the maximum is a pathetic joke. The only possible situation this would apply is in a drunk driver who kills a cyclists (and who doesn't have mates where are barrasters).

Just another silly empty promise that she hopes people are to stupid to read the details of. Such a tiny amendment like that could have been put through at any time its not a 'policy' to take to an election....

Also $27m for cycling in a whole state is a joke, wow a whole $27m... meanwhile cars and trains are getting $6,000 million. The QLD government just gave 1.3million to a 200m stretch of bikeway near my house (they use the bicycle grants as an excuse to rebuild the road, cars parks and intersection, for cars). So most of that $27 million won't even be spent on bicycles - you just have to throw a bike lane in and you can get the grant to build pratically anything.
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby KonaCommuter » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:06 pm

Just introduce a minimum custodial sentence if you are responsible for someone being unlawfully killed. The charge would cover everything from workplace accidents to murder. WH&S if you are told about a problem and don’t sort it you’re responsible. Same for licensed drivers. You passed the test, you should know the rules, ALL of them and you should be competent.
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby high_tea » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:14 am

Another thing that irks me, apart from the ridiculous claim that this creates a new offence, is that this change is said to apply specifically to offences involving cyclists. This creates a disparity between cyclists and pedestrians (among others) that is stupid, pointless and divisive. Why not aim it at vulnerable road users? Dangerous driving involving a pedestrian (or WRD user or whatever) is every bit as bad as dangerous driving involving a cyclist.
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:49 pm

Hmm ok I'll stand corrected I think. I should have read it a bit closer.
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby high_tea » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:01 pm

That wasn't a dig at you, Inwood, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. It was aimed at the ALP. Their own policy contradicts their claim that there will be a new offence!
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby The 2nd Womble » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:45 pm

high_tea wrote:That wasn't a dig at you, Inwood, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. It was aimed at the ALP. Their own policy contradicts their claim that there will be a new offence!

+1. I'm with you too Inwood in that I misread a fair bit of this too. Yup, Labor sucks at pulling the Wool over seeing things in head socket stuff thingos. Half arsed and counterproductive in the extreme!
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby PawPaw » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:10 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/labor-in-28m-vow-to-cyclists-20120310-1urup.html

Ah, I get it now. Anna had a personal experience of road rage when on a bike, so that's the motive for her election promise.
Maybe instead of the self referent anecdote, she could have been motivated by and mentioned the trends in cyclist injuries and deaths.
But then, knowing Anna, no she couldn't.

Never mind, they're all more equal in the Bligh/Withers household. Anna can change bike laws, whenever she so chooses.
And Mr Withers can change the climate (as head of the Qld Dept of Climate Change).
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Re: Vote for Anna...

Postby Oxford » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:41 am

yes so when I and many other wrote to various government ministers about aggressive driving habits, that was OK, but poor old Anna got a single touch up that cyclists experience every other day and the laws need to be changed. not good enough and too little too late.
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