Whose at fault????

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Whose at fault????

Postby hillmatic » Thu May 17, 2012 11:08 am

I was reverse parking (rear to curb) when a cyclist travelling down the hill (the same way i was going) crashed into my car when i was backing into the spot. i did not see them as i was looking in the rear vision mirror. should they have givin my to me????

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by BNA » Thu May 17, 2012 7:04 pm

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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby il padrone » Thu May 17, 2012 7:04 pm

Yes.


Was this cyclist blind or summat ???
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Whose at fault????

Postby find_bruce » Thu May 17, 2012 7:19 pm

You are asking a bunch of cyclists about an incident where you crashed into a cyclist, so it is possible the answers you get may be less than objective.

Also you don't give a lot of detail, where you were hit, how long you had been reversing, whether there was a marked bike lane etc so it's a little hard to say much other than point to road rule 296
296 Driving a vehicle in reverse wrote:(1) The driver of a vehicle must not reverse the vehicle unless the driver can do so safely.

So you are not starting from the greatest position
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby gururug » Thu May 17, 2012 7:27 pm

Yeah, I thought the rule was that the parker has to give way to traffic in the main road as they are parking (NSW). Having said that, so many rules have changed since I got my license I probably don't know half of them.

There may be some legal argument depending on where and how they hit you.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby uncle arthur » Thu May 17, 2012 7:28 pm

find_bruce wrote:You are asking a bunch of cyclists about an incident where you crashed into a cyclist, so it is possible the answers you get may be less than objective.

Also you don't give a lot of detail, where you were hit, how long you had been reversing, whether there was a marked bike lane etc so it's a little hard to say much other than point to road rule 296
296 Driving a vehicle in reverse wrote:(1) The driver of a vehicle must not reverse the vehicle unless the driver can do so safely.

So you are not starting from the greatest position


And it is also safe to say you don't know how to spell.....
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby Oxford » Thu May 17, 2012 8:05 pm

you are for the grammatical error in your thread title. it hurts my eyes. :cry:

as for the situation you describe, not enough information to make a determination.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby Percrime » Thu May 17, 2012 8:28 pm

Depends on a bunch of things. However when you are reversing is pretty much the only instance where you can be hit square up the back and actually be at fault. Probably comes down to did you hit him or he you.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby trailgumby » Thu May 17, 2012 9:35 pm

having been a stupid dipstick who hit someone when they lurched forward to block me from reverse parking, the ossifer in the poleece stayshun ex plained me that the re-verseing veehickle is allways at fawlt.

No exceptions. 3 points for neg driving. :oops:
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby CommuRider » Thu May 17, 2012 9:57 pm

Was it at night? Did you have your lights on? Were you visible?
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby human909 » Thu May 17, 2012 10:23 pm

trailgumby wrote:having been a stupid dipstick who hit someone when they lurched forward to block me from reverse parking, the ossifer in the poleece stayshun ex plained me that the re-verseing veehickle is allways at fawlt.

No exceptions. 3 points for neg driving. :oops:


The officer is not correct. There is no such law.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby Mulger bill » Thu May 17, 2012 11:12 pm

Come on team, give the OP a break. F7 aside, methinks it's a fair question. Not to mention the fact that a smokeboxer is actually willing to put his hand up and ask velonauts for advice. Better by far than bragging about it down t'pub.

My knowledge of the laws pertaining to this incident and the paucity of information makes it an impossible call so far.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby zero » Fri May 18, 2012 1:21 am

human909 wrote:
trailgumby wrote:having been a stupid dipstick who hit someone when they lurched forward to block me from reverse parking, the ossifer in the poleece stayshun ex plained me that the re-verseing veehickle is allways at fawlt.

No exceptions. 3 points for neg driving. :oops:


The officer is not correct. There is no such law.


The law exists. What the officer is repeating is a typical police interpretation - ie if you drive into someone who the police believe is stationary, you risk them assessing your driving as negligent. If you disagree you can have the matter heard at court.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby r2160 » Fri May 18, 2012 8:20 am

I think we need to take a step back here.

On the one hand, the driver may have just stopped to reverse into a parking spot and the cyclist hit him from behind. That may go the way of the cyclist.

Lets also assume for a second that the vehicle indicated, stopped, started to reverse into the parking spot, and the cyclist hit him. To me that would be an altogether different situation.

Having said that, I was always under the impression that if a vehicle is hit from behind, it is generally the vehicle BEHIND that is at fault.

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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby Ozkaban » Fri May 18, 2012 9:07 am

Mulger bill wrote:Come on team, give the OP a break. F7 aside, methinks it's a fair question. Not to mention the fact that a smokeboxer is actually willing to put his hand up and ask velonauts for advice. Better by far than bragging about it down t'pub.

My knowledge of the laws pertaining to this incident and the paucity of information makes it an impossible call so far.


+1 to all of this.

I think the only advice worth anything is to talk to someone about the law - police is a good start, though independent legal advice may be better in this case.

There's simply not enough info on the incident to make a call. And even if there was, an anonymous 'velonaut' (like that term :mrgreen: ) on teh interwebs would not be my source of truth in such a case...
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby csy75 » Fri May 18, 2012 10:09 am

find_bruce wrote:You are asking a bunch of cyclists about an incident where you crashed into a cyclist, so it is possible the answers you get may be less than objective.


bruce, i disagree with your point....the cyclist has crashed into him.

it always annoys me when i read the following, " a motorcyclist crashed into a car when the car drove across yellow lines"...placing the blame on the motorcyclist when the car driver is at fault..

to me you are doing the same here....the car driver is reversing, the cyclist crests the hill then runs into him? I don't see that as the OP's fault....cyclist not maintaining proper distance or being able to break is my read on it.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby ldrcycles » Fri May 18, 2012 10:24 am

r2160 wrote:Having said that, I was always under the impression that if a vehicle is hit from behind, it is generally the vehicle BEHIND that is at fault.


That was my understanding also, whether it is actually correct is another matter, i don't know.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby csy75 » Fri May 18, 2012 10:55 am

I was hit from behind by a women in a 4WD on purpose...she left the scene of the accident to go to the police and proceeded to claim against me for insurance.

luckily i did all the right things in this instance and insurance denied her claim ( thank god for taking photos ) and my also heading straight to police station myself.

this is why i use a camera at all times on the road...

so hit from behind may mean many things...
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby find_bruce » Fri May 18, 2012 12:15 pm

find_bruce wrote:You are asking a bunch of cyclists about an incident where you crashed into a cyclist, so it is possible the answers you get may be less than objective.
csy75 wrote:it alwaysnnoys me when i read the following, " a motorcyclist crashed into a car when the car drove across yellow lines"...placing the blame on the motorcyclist when the car driver is at fault..

You make a valid point, I should have said "had a collission with" rather than "crashed into" - I was deliberately trying not to say who was at fault because there was not enough information, as others have more eloquently put it.
r2160 wrote:Having said that, I was always under the impression that if a vehicle is hit from behind, it is generally the vehicle BEHIND that is at fault.
You are correct, as long as you remeber the genrally bit. As Percrime said when you are reversing you can be hit square up the back and actually be at fault - see road rule 269 extracted above.
Ozkaban wrote:an anonymous 'velonaut' (like that term :mrgreen: ) on teh interwebs would not be my source of truth

Amen to that Oz - these sort of threads should come with a disclaimer - "if you rely upon advice given anonymously on teh interwebs, we reserve our right to point & laugh"
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby CommuRider » Fri May 18, 2012 1:45 pm

csy75 wrote:I was hit from behind by a women in a 4WD on purpose...she left the scene of the accident to go to the police and proceeded to claim against me for insurance.


Was she wanting to upgrade her SUV?
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby eeksll » Fri May 18, 2012 2:14 pm

hillmatic wrote:I was reverse parking (rear to curb) when a cyclist travelling down the hill (the same way i was going) crashed into my car when i was backing into the spot.


depending on how I interpret this "(the same way i was going)", ie
The same way you where going when you where backing up
Or
The same way you where going when you where going forward?

hillmatic wrote:i did not see them as i was looking in the rear vision mirror.


now this makes it sound like this interpretation "The same way you where going when you where backing up ".

if so, is one of you not going the wrong way?
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby csy75 » Fri May 18, 2012 2:39 pm

CommuRider wrote:
csy75 wrote:I was hit from behind by a woman in a 4WD on purpose...she left the scene of the accident to go to the police and proceeded to claim against me for insurance.


Was she wanting to upgrade her SUV?


she was :roll:
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby Xplora » Fri May 18, 2012 8:31 pm

I would think that the cyclist would be at fault, simply because hitting people in front of you needs to be a blanket decision unless you are found to have deliberately caused the accident with intent. Good luck proving the second situation.

It really seems that there needs to be a basic understanding of what is considered the default position, and work out the exceptions from there. Hitting from behind is a simple one, because you can't force road users in front to brake less if they need to stop. If you can't avoid them, you're too close or not paying attention. Pretty simple! It's the same as "give way to people already in the roundabout". It's presumed that you give way to the right, but sometimes a vehicle stalls inside the roundabout (or cyclist picks a big gear) and you can't just give carte blanche approval to poor sharing because a roundabout is NOT a straight road with stop signs blocking the other roads.
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Whose at fault????

Postby RonK » Fri May 18, 2012 9:34 pm

zero wrote:
human909 wrote:
trailgumby wrote:having been a stupid dipstick who hit someone when they lurched forward to block me from reverse parking, the ossifer in the poleece stayshun ex plained me that the re-verseing veehickle is allways at fawlt.

No exceptions. 3 points for neg driving. :oops:


The officer is not correct. There is no such law.


The law exists. What the officer is repeating is a typical police interpretation - ie if you drive into someone who the police believe is stationary, you risk them assessing your driving as negligent. If you disagree you can have the matter heard at court.

well there is another interpretation which says if you run into the back of a vehicle you are always in the wrong.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby Mulger bill » Fri May 18, 2012 10:16 pm

Sod interpretations. State the appropriate state laws so a basis for sensible advice for the OP can be discussed.

If the "welcome" hasn't scared him off AND created a tabloid stereotype of cyclists in his mind.
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Re: Whose at fault????

Postby diggler » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:31 pm

The policeman said the reverser is always wrong. I don't agree. If that were the case, that means if I see somebody reversing, I can just ram into them and it is their fault. I don't see how that makes sense. Yes a reverser should give way but was the accident caused by the reverser not giving way? If the car had stayed still, would the collision have occurred?
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