Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 29060
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:49 pm

So called "professional" road users of all kinds are some of the absolute worst of them all, could it be their sense of entitlement is larger?
"I use the road to earn a crust, while YOU are just getting in MY way by trying to get somewhere, yield or be sideswiped."

I bet that Nightingale CLOWN wears a bib all the time to keep his uniform shirt drool and junk food free.

Does anyone have the resources/knowledge to investigate the relationship between Mr Birdbrain and the editorial staff/owners of that delightful litter tray liner? It sounds a just a teensy little bit too cosy IMO.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:03 pm

Idon't know that there'd be any cozyness going on Mulger. It could simply be that there are so many robberies, armed holdups, illegal P Platers at midnight on the M1 races, incidents involving youths bashing bus drivers and their passengers, multi million dollar drug seizures and bikie wars looming over whats left, new highrises popping up everywhere, preparations for the Commonwealth Games destroying peoples lives, food poisonings and conmen ripping off entire communities full of old people, that actual news worthy print would make people sad. The kind of folk who buy the GC Bulletin/Sun are struggling to enjoy their idyllic sub-tropical lives as it is.
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 29060
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:15 pm

Didn't the GC abandon its tilt at Australian Idyll back in the late '80s? :?
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22931
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby il padrone » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:01 pm

Mulger bill wrote:So called "professional" road users of all kinds are some of the absolute worst of them all, could it be their sense of entitlement is larger?
"I use the road to earn a crust, while YOU are just getting in MY way by trying to get somewhere, yield or be sideswiped."
I must say that my experience of the real professional drivers (long distance semi and B-double truck drivers) when I have been cycling on rural highways is that they are the most considerate of all road users. Riding Melbourne to Adelaide, and on my commuting run, they are the first (and most consistent) to change a full lane width to overtake me on my bike.
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 29060
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:25 pm

I did say some :P

I've limited experience with the big wheelers. Mostly it's taxis, skybus, white vans and bike couriers.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22931
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby il padrone » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:27 pm

Mulger bill wrote:I've limited experience with the big wheelers. Mostly it's taxis, skybus, white vans and bike couriers.
Ah yes. The riff raff of the industry :roll:
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

User avatar
ldrcycles
Posts: 9593
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:15 pm

+1 to MB AND IPs comments, i'm a cyclist and a 'professional' driver (well sorta technically, i deliver pizzas on weekends) and while the blokes who drive the big semis etc are usually excellent drivers, courteous, sensible and so on, i've reported several taxis recently for running red lights and other dangerous behaviour, and you can often rely on couriers to drive dangerously. These are generalisations of course.
"I must be rather keen on cycling"- Sir Hubert Opperman.

Road Record Association of Australia

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:05 am

The "information" that Mr Nightingale aggreed to send me amounted to this (and he couldn't even be bothered to get my name right):


InboxArchive
Offline.
Last checked: just now
Pull down to refresh...
attn Mr DaviesInbox
33 minutes ago
Show details
independant drivers association ron
to me
 
Dear Mr Davies

Re our Conversation

As promised here are the position our association has taken as to the matter concerning motorists and road safety.

To address your main concerns and objections to Registration.

As you are aware at this time there is no way for police to effectively identify Cyclists who break the current laws.

In our evidence we have numerous photographs of cyclists using the roads , not wearing helmets , in groups breaking the most common laws , not using safety equipment at night , crossing roads at red lights, failing to signal, etc, etc, etc.

None of these offenders can be identified, nor if they go off road can they be caught. Cyclists are aware of this and although it may be a minority , they use this to do as they wish with no disregard because they can not be fined.

Despite the angry responses we see regularly from cyclists , we do not get emotional , nor do we lose focus on what we are trying to achieve which are safer roads.

We are aware that some motorists do attack cyclists, they do cause accidents, however they carry registration numbers and can be fined for leaving the scene of an accident, by causing a hazzard, for road rage against a cyclist, and a number of other offences which they can be tracked down and dealt with by police.

The overall facts are that none of your fraternity are willing to police other cyclists, and even if they could they would not be able to because they can not identify other riders.

Our Proposal for Registration comes in the following manner

Only those cyclists who wish to use the roads have to be registered.
(it is legal for a cyclist to use a footpath providing he or she abides by the laws that cover that surface , section 250 of the road laws)

Registration would not be of the bicycle it would be of the rider, thusly if a rider has more than one bicycle then he or she would simply clip the registration plate to the bicycle being used.

The cost would be yearly and would be kept to the minimum as we outlined.

Children would not have to be registered until the age of 16.

I am afraid after all we have seen it is a matter we can not negotiate on , only refine.




Other laws we seek to be changed and added

We are seeking to have bicycle riders restricted from using roads where the speed limit exceeds 70kph unless a bicycle lane is present on the road ( it is an offence for any vehicle to travel 30kph under the speed limit and our research shows the average speed of a rider is under that 40kph minimum requirement)

We are seeking that riding on a road where there are no bicycle lanes riders may only ride single file (reference to current law section 253)

We are seeking that some roads be marked with no bicycle signs (where the roads are to narrow to be classed as safe and alternate shared paths run in parallel)

Note :- remember there are some roads where motorists can not travel and some that have lanes that motorists can not use (T3)

We have also recommended changes such as better safety equipment to be used at night

Also changes in penalties such as increases to match motorists
for example current fine for not wearing a helmet - $100
current fine for not wearing a seat belt - $300 + loss of two points off drivers licence.

revised for not wearing a helmet - $300 + loss of two points off drivers licence.
(as you are aware when you drive multi vehicles , motorbike, motor vehicle, truck, an offence in one vehicle affects ability to drive all)

For being caught drunk in charge of a bicycle – same result as a vehicle , same fine, same loss of all licences.

Responsibility on the road needs to be equally shared, safety on the road is paramount.

We support healthy living that is why we are working to have extra bicycle only paths made available so riders can cycle to work and back.

We support safe roads and as equal share is possible.

We do not support attitudes or ego's that place an individuals wish to travel fast all the time on a bicycle , motorists have to slowdown and travel at safe speeds at schools , in suburban streets, and those who do not get caught and get taken off the roads as unsafe users.

If you have further questions please do not hesitate to ask.

R J Nightingale
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:07 am

I have a very long list of questions but they're kind of rhetorical.
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 29060
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:27 am

It really sounds like he's upset that somebody seems to be getting something that he isn't. :roll:

Pretty sure the bit about 30km/h under does not apply where the vehicle is not travelling "unreasonably" slowly :?

Of course, this IS Queensland...

Dave, can you ask him on my behalf how many plated vehicles being naughty he's got photos of and the result of all the reports he has filed about them?

Shaun
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:35 am

It's Mr Davies or Sir to you MB, and do you want to hurt his feelings with queries?
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
KenGS
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:31 pm
Location: Rosanna, Victoria

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby KenGS » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:39 am

I'd answer him along the lines of:
Glad to find someone who is equally concerned with road safety. Your proposal for delivery drivers to be exempted from seat belt wearing has me concerned for their safety. However. I believe that could be addressed by making it mandatory for them to wear a helmet whilst driving without a seatbelt. In an accident a bicycle style helmet would protect them from head injury which can be quite severe even at speeds as low as 30km/h. I'd be happy to support you on such a proposal which would protect the health and safety of your members but also allow them to go about their vital business quickly and efficiently.
Also, they would need to be registered as a delivery driver so they can show they are exempted from the usual seatbelt laws if stopped by police to ensure they can quickly go about their work without delay.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
--Ken
Helmets! Bells! Rego!

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:41 am

Then again, as previously mentioned, the IDP (what have the Romans ever done for us?!) want an exemption from their drivers being required to wear seat belts when making short trips ie: your average 10-12 hours a day as a courier driver, so maybe, just maybr, their genuine and reasoned calls for increased road safety should be taken a bit more seriously. Lets give the guy a pffff ffff ffff hahahahaaaaaa! :lol:

Sorry, I'm being biased.
Last edited by The 2nd Womble on Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:42 am

Bugger. You beat me to it Ken.
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 29060
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:43 am

Terribly sorry Cur. :twisted:

Pretty sure it's not his feelings in need of hurt...


EDIT. Ooooh, nice one Ken. :mrgreen:
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22931
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby il padrone » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:08 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:The "information" that Mr Nightingale aggreed to send me amounted to this (and he couldn't even be bothered to get my name right):

To address your main concerns and objections to Registration.

As you are aware at this time there is no way for police to effectively identify Cyclists who break the current laws.
Hmm... always this :?

There's no way to identify pedestrians who walk against the red man..... registration

There's no way to identify thieves who rob service stations..... registration

There's no way to identify drunks who p!ss in the bushes..... registration

The multi-purpose fixer, registration for all I say :mrgreen:
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:02 pm

Registrtion for armed robbers? The Gold Coast really could use that atm :lol:
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

high_tea
Posts: 1494
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby high_tea » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:48 pm

Mulger bill wrote:It really sounds like he's upset that somebody seems to be getting something that he isn't. :roll:
That's about the size of it: he seems to think that no vehicle should be able to use the road on terms more favourable than motor vehicles.

EDIT: spelling.
Last edited by high_tea on Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:54 pm

If SCA was to start producing "Cyclists, getting a free ride and loving it" would it be counterproductive?
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
Posts: 29060
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:26 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:If SCA was to start producing "Cyclists, getting a free ride and loving it" would it be counterproductive?
Yes! But pith funny anyway...

Maybe make it as a QR code sticker...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

User avatar
greyhoundtom
Posts: 3023
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 6:28 am
Location: Wherever the sun is shining
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby greyhoundtom » Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:53 pm

I really don’t think he has gone quite far enough............
All bikes that ride on roads should be fitted with bull bars and roll cages as a safety measure..........this will also make it easier to have somewhere to fit the registration plates. :twisted:

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:49 pm

https://sites.google.com/site/independe ... cle-riders


Home‎ > ‎CURRENT PROJECTS‎ > ‎
bicycle riders
Bicycle Riders

Problems with Bicycle riders has come to a current situation of almost a war between cyclists and motorists.
A lack of regulations and identification of those persons in the cycling fraternity who flaunt laws that are current is compounded by in many cases ignorance by the offenders.
We have found that the majority of problems are caused by cyclists who class themselves as semi professionals who use the roads much like a hoon does , their purpose is a social gathering , combined with speed.
We believe that a combination of law changes and the ability for police to police the laws would result in safer and better flowing roads .
We believe the best solution to be found for this issue is to lobby both state and council for changes in the laws and the ability for certain cyclists to ride where the danger to us and them is extreem.








SUBMISSIONS TO STATE

PROPOSED CHANGES TO

Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995
Transport Operations (Road
Use Management—Road
Rules)




Current
151 Riding a motorbike or bicycle alongside more than 1
other rider
(1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road
that is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider,
unless subsection (3) applies to the rider.

(3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride alongside more
than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders.
(4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is
not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked
lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must
ride not over 1.5m from the other rider.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

PROPOSED CHANGES

Riding a bicycle alongside more than 1
other rider
(1) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not ride on a road
that is not a multi-lane road alongside xxxxx other rider, unless in a bicycle storage area (bicycle lane) if a bicycle unless subsection (3) applies to the rider.

(3) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle may ride on a road
that is not a multi-lane road alongside
xxxxx1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other rider, providing it is practical to do so without obstructing passing drivers unless subsection (6) applies to the rider.

(4) If the rider of a motorbike or bicycle is riding on a road that is
not a multi-lane road xxxxx, or in a marked
lane whilst passing another rider in the marked lane or road, the rider must
ride not over 1.5m from the other rider.

(6) The rider of a motorbike or bicycle must not overtake another rider on a road
that is not a multi-lane road when traveling over a bridge , across a marked pedestrian crossing or intersection.

Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.



(7) The rider of a xxxx bicycle must not ride on a road
that is xxxxx a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider,
unless subsection (9) applies to the rider.

(9) The rider of a xxxxx bicycle on a road
that is a multi-lane road may ride alongside more
than 1 other rider if the rider is overtaking the other riders.

(10) If the rider of a xxxxx bicycle is riding on a road that is
xxx a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked
lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must
ride not over 1.5m from the other rider.


NEW

A BICYCLE RIDER MAY NOT

1. Ride on a road where the speed limit exceeds 70kph unless a bicycle storage area (bicycle lane) is marked.
2. Ride on a road marked with a no bicycle sign.


3. Cross a road way at a pedestrian crossing whilst mounted.

4. Use a roadway unless registered to do so. (exemption to this rule , a child who is escorted by a registered road user who is under the age of 15)

5. Travel on a shared pathway or footpath in a manner to be declared hazardous to the safety of pedestrians. ( example – weaving, high speed ,etc)

6. Enter a car park , privately owned or council , whilst mounted

7. make a right hand turn across a roadway without signaling his or her intention by hand signal


SAFETY EQUIPMENT
After witnessing a number of recent accidents we believe a change needs to be made to the equipment used by cyclists when traveling in the dark.

We recommend that the inclusion of high visibility reflective strips to be displayed on the back of a cyclist would releave this problem as it does for road workers, and any other person on a roadway or in a darkened car park or loading area because of the constant trend for cyclists to wear black or dark colored lycra riding suits.

REGISTRATION

We believe that the reason so many cyclists flaunt the current laws is because of the same reason a person who likes to speed covers or distorts his registration plate , because they can not be identified , even if pulled over by police , hence the reason they believe they can do as they wish.

It is our recommendation that a registration system for cyclists should come about.
We have spoken to Cycling Safety Australia over this matter and they agree with the idea cyclists should be registered.

We recommend the following

Any Cyclist intending to use the roadways should be registered and their details listed , we believe the cost of these stickers should reflect their cost only and only adults over the age of 17 should pay to access the roads.
We believe the cost would amount to approx $20 to $30 per annum and should be renewed yearly.
An exception to this would be a child not attending school (primary or secondary).

We believe that the government should issue free registration to children attending school (primary or secondary). The extra benefits of being able to educate our younger road users to obey laws before they progress to motor vehicles would outweigh the cost.

The Stickers should be of a simple design with adhesive backing and should be attached to the rear of helmets.

Registration stickers for adults should take the following format.
R 00000001
01/01/2012



Children's stickers should be of a similar design and formatted to reflect the wearer is a child, similarly a secondary format for those over the age of 14.


Summary
We believe that these changes can have the best affect on making the current road situations safer, assist in policing of laws and make a large impact on the education of the younger generation who shall become motorists.

We believe that penalties for breeches of these laws should reflect the offenses, not limiting the possibility that breaches by youth could affect their opportunities to gain drivers licenses and for the worst of adults , the loss of their driving licenses.
AN EXAMPLE OF THIS IS TO RAISE THE PENALITY TO $300 FROM $100 AND IF THEY HAVE A DRIVERS LICENCE A LOSS OF TWO POINTS


SUBMISSIONS TO COUNCILS

GOLD COAST

AT THIS TIME
we have made two major recommendations to council
The first is a reconfigeration of bicycle ways along the coast
an example is to close marine parade to bicycle riders and direct them onto the shared paths running from biggera waters to the Spit.
A simular closure would occur for Garfield and Hedges at Broadbeach / Mermaid .

In conjunction with this we are making representations to the Federal Government to take up the option to fund the other half of the Oceanway project.

With cyclists directed onto this pathway which shall be nominated as Bicycles only it will take riders away from traffic flow and create a safe corridor from one end of the coast to the other.
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:50 pm

So how many of us are calling the Gold Coast City Council next week?
The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

User avatar
il padrone
Posts: 22931
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby il padrone » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:23 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:https://sites.google.com/site/independe ... cle-riders


Home‎ > ‎CURRENT PROJECTS‎ > ‎
bicycle riders
Bicycle Riders

Problems with Bicycle riders has come to a current situation of almost a war between cyclists and motorists.....

<snip much bull's deposit>
Methinks Mr Nightingale has been tickling his tossle too much :roll: . He has a wildly inflated sense of his own importance.
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."

User avatar
The 2nd Womble
Posts: 3058
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:21 pm
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Well waddaya know? New Queensland Boys Club Inc.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:27 pm

The only good Cyclist is a Bicyclist

Huge fan of booted RGers who just can't help themselves

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users