Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

I know I don't need to preach to the converted which is probably most of you but this post is for anyone who rides with no helmet....

On Monday I had just started my commute home and was doing my normal quick sprint along a 250m section of Kewdale Rd. This is one of the busiest roads in Perth with constant heavy traffic during the hours of daylight. It has lots of heavy haulage vehicles along it together with commercial vehicles plus other domestic traffic.
Anyway, there was a gap in the traffic so I sprinted to turn right into Miles Rd. The oncoming traffic was still about 400m away. My cornering technique was OK I thought and I definitely didn't touch any brakes, but down I went at about 25kmh right into the middle of Kewdale Rd. Bashed my helmet & all the usual bits ie. knees, hip, shoulder. All seems relatively OK except for the Helmet - I threw it in the bin as harness had detached and the foam was cracked all the way through near the area of impact. It was 5 years old and looking a bit shabby so I was thinking of tossing it anyway.

Things happened very quickly of course and my 1st instinct was obviously to get off the road out of the way of the oncoming trucks etc.
I was interested that both Brifters were bent and scratched on the tops, so the front wheel must have come around at right angles. I'm suspecting that there was some oil/rubber on the road that I couldn't see. Conditions were dry. I have since replaced the rear tyre which was a Conti 4000S, the wear dimples were almost gone. The front tyre still has plenty of rubber, it's a Gatorskin though - not sure If I should replace it as it is about 5 years old?

Throw the new tyre on the front and the old front tyre on the rear.

Glad you’re OK

sorry to hear that cavebear and glad you're OK.

heavy vehicle routes = diesel on the road

I know I don't need to preach to the converted which is probably most of you but this post is for anyone who rides with no helmet....

No worries about preaching to me, I have 2 cracked helmets and were knocked unconcious on both occasions.

As you said it happens so fast. Glad you are OK. I'm not sure what the lesson is to be honest as these things happen out of the blue and beyond our control. Maybe just a greater awareness of our surroundings?

Hmm..... I've had 1000s of days of riding under my belt and not once has a helmet saved me. Should I start a new thread every time this occurs? Rather than blaming your tyres or praising your helmet how about you consider riding in a fashion that doesn't end up with you coming off your bike?

There are literally millions of Dutch riding every day without helmets and they still haven't coming to the same conclusion about the necessary nature of helmets. The fact is that if you ride safely and sensibly then a helmet is an unnecessary extra.

Now of course I have no objection if you want to wear one. However such arguments are commonly used to justify FORCING helmet use onto people that have no desire to wear a helmet. This is poor logic and offensive.

cavebear2 wrote:I know I don't need to preach to the converted which is probably most of you but this post is for anyone who rides with no helmet....

Ah well.
This is for me then, as I do ride the occasional ride without a helmet.

I do however wish to point out, that just because these things happened to you, it wil not mean it wil happen to me..
I am far from implying that I am incapable of having an accident.
But If I ride without a helmet, and I am in exactly the same situation* the outcome could be very different.

Why?, well, cause my riding behaviour does change when I have or do not have a helmet.
So the whole, this can happen when you dont wear one is something I dissagree very much on..
Is to me like comparing apples with pineapples, sure they sound alike, but they taste very different...




*wich is very unlikely to ever happen...

human909 wrote:Hmm..... I've had 1000s of days of riding under my belt and not once has a helmet saved me. Should I start a new thread every time this occurs? Rather than blaming your tyres or praising your helmet how about you consider riding in a fashion that doesn't end up with you coming off your bike?

There are literally millions of Dutch riding every day without helmets and they still haven't coming to the same conclusion about the necessary nature of helmets. The fact is that if you ride safely and sensibly then a helmet is an unnecessary extra.

Now of course I have no objection if you want to wear one. However such arguments are commonly used to justify FORCING helmet use onto people that have no desire to wear a helmet. This is poor logic and offensive.

Oh yes, blame the rider, blame his careless riding, blame the road, blame the conditions.
Never, ever, ever concede that the unforeseen may happen, and that wearing a helmet might save somebody from serious or even fatal injury.
If you feel entitled to express anti-helmet views, rest assured that there are many who support pro-helmet views. And without resorting to the convoluted and offensive argument that you try to present as logic.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn9u-XMd ... detailpage[/youtube]

RonK wrote:Oh yes, blame the rider, blame his careless riding, blame the road, blame the conditions.
Never, ever, ever concede that the unforeseen may happen, and that wearing a helmet might save somebody from serious or even fatal injury.

I will happily concede that the unforeseen happened to this rider and that the helmet possibly saved him from further injury. (or possibly not as a cracked helmet doesn't indicate his head would have hit)

RonK wrote:If you feel entitled to express anti-helmet views, rest assured that there are many who support pro-helmet views.

I'm not anti helmet. I'm anti being forced to wear a helmet. I'm also not naive enough to think single vehicle accidents just occur through no fault of the rider.

RonK wrote:And without resorting to the convoluted and offensive argument that you try to present as logic.

I'm sorry if referring to the MILLIONS of dutch cyclists riding without helmets sound convoluted and offensive to you.

cavebear2 wrote:On Monday I had just started my commute home and was doing my normal quick sprint along a 250m section of Kewdale Rd. This is one of the busiest roads in Perth with constant heavy traffic during the hours of daylight. It has lots of heavy haulage vehicles along it together with commercial vehicles plus other domestic traffic.
Anyway, there was a gap in the traffic so I sprinted to turn right into Miles Rd. The oncoming traffic was still about 400m away. My cornering technique was OK I thought and I definitely didn't touch any brakes, but down I went at about 25kmh right into the middle of Kewdale Rd.

There are a few factors there that you may have modified if you were not wearing the bonce lid. I know I would even with mine on.

cavebear2 wrote:Bashed my helmet & all the usual bits ie. knees, hip, shoulder. All seems relatively OK except for the Helmet - I threw it in the bin as harness had detached and the foam was cracked all the way through near the area of impact. It was 5 years old and looking a bit shabby so I was thinking of tossing it anyway.

One thing about helmets is that they do increase the mass of your head (slightly) and the diameter of it also - both of which make an impact with the road that much more likely. Not to mention the fact that you may act to hold your head up or otherwise protect it that much more without the helmet.



Anyway, probably time to take this to the 'Mandatory Helmets' thread

RonK wrote: Oh yes, blame the rider, blame his careless riding, blame the road, blame the conditions.
Never, ever, ever concede that the unforeseen may happen, and that wearing a helmet might save somebody from serious or even fatal injury.
If you feel entitled to express anti-helmet views, rest assured that there are many who support pro-helmet views. And without resorting to the convoluted and offensive argument that you try to present as logic.

things happen, always.
cycling is no exeption.
BUT.

Wearing protective gear, just because the unforseen may happen, and that protective gear may help you is something I personaly categorise as paranoia.
Because we only apply this 'may' logic to one specific exercise/transport, but not onto others...

Fear, its a beatifull thing, as it helps to protect us, but......
We should not let it dominate our lives...as then it wil do the opposite.

il padrone wrote:One thing about helmets is that they do increase the mass of your head (slightly) and the diameter of it also - both of which make an impact with the road that much more likely. Not to mention the fact that you may act to hold your head up or otherwise protect it that much more without the helmet.

Very true.

I rarely crash, but about a year ago I did have a very hard low side crash on a friends fixie I was riding while being intoxicated (not on a road). I hit the brickwork very hard, heavily bruising my hip and shoulders but my unhelmeted head never impacted the ground as I naturally tensed my neck muscles to protect my head.

I did deserve the accident that I got but it does show that the body is VERY effective at stopping head impacts. That said if I'm going to crash like that again, I'd prefer a helmet.

My helmet 'saved' me recently when I fell whilst riding at <15kph on a straight section of dampened grass.... front wheel just slipped away on something. Treaded CX tyres, low speed, straight run - not sure what else I could have done ... maybe get off and walk. Maybe if I'd been moving faster I may have stayed upright ?

My head went from 2m off the ground to hitting the ground in under a second. I tried tensing and protecting my head but momentum and a whiplash effect meant it banged firmly on the ground. I doubt the extra diameter of the helmet made any difference - my head would still have whacked the ground, I think, only my neck would have snapped downwards a bit further at impact. Keeping the spine/neck in line during impact is possibly a slight benefit of the extra diameter the helmet gives you.

Anyway, only ever had 2 minor 'offs' before. I've been riding bikes for 50 years (helmet-less the first 30) and that's the first time the helmet has done the job for me.

I'm glad I was wearing it.

cyclotaur wrote:My head went from 2m off the ground to hitting the ground in under a second. I tried tensing and protecting my head but momentum and a whiplash effect meant it banged firmly on the ground. I doubt the extra diameter of the helmet made any difference - my head would still have whacked the ground, I think, only my neck would have snapped downwards a bit further at impact. Keeping the spine/neck in line during impact is possibly a slight benefit of the extra diameter the helmet gives you.

I've posted this before but worth illustrating what I mean again




15kmh.... 2m onto grass..... ?? I'd wager your helmet made stuff-all difference, but then we'll really never know for sure unless you re-enact it

damhooligan wrote: Wearing protective gear, just because the unforseen may happen, and that protective gear may help you is something I personaly categorise as paranoia. Because we only apply this 'may' logic to one specific exercise/transport, but not onto others...

Each to his own. I don't think taking reasonable minor precautions constitutes paranoia. I'm sure no one expects to have a road accident but most of us are happy enough to strap on the seatbelt when we drive.

Having not really read any of the helmet stuff cause I cant be bothered getting into it but are you guys also against being forced to wear a seatbelt? I have never needed my seatbelt but I still wear one just incase (and would even if it wasnt the law) you never know what idiots out there might do. My brain is worth enough to me to throw on a silly helmet. I have cracked 2 helmets and I have been glad I have been wearing them both times cause I have come out unscathed when it could of been far worse.

il padrone wrote: One thing about helmets is that they do increase the mass of your head (slightly) and the diameter of it also - both of which make an impact with the road that much more likely. Not to mention the fact that you may act to hold your head up or otherwise protect it that much more without the helmet.

Bahaha this is one of the funniest most ilinformed things I have ever read. Thanks for entertaining me. The amount of force created when you hit the ground is way beyond what the muscles in your neck are designed to withstand an extra 200g on a head that weighs more then a couple of kilo is not going to make any difference. Thanks for providing some entertainment.

il padrone wrote:15kmh.... 2m onto grass..... ?? I'd wager your helmet made stuff-all difference, but then we'll really never know for sure unless you re-enact it

Nice video .... but none of them were doing more than fast walking pace, maybe 6-8kph at most, and none of them hit their head in an uncontrolled fall - like I did. I had a sore shoulder and right side, plus a headache, for the next 24hours.

Personally I'll take that over hitting an unprotected head and a possible sore neck as well.

vander wrote: The amount of force created when you hit the ground is way beyond what the muscles in your neck are designed to withstand an extra 200g on a head that weighs more then a couple of kilo is not going to make any difference.

Did you happen to watch that video of the Dutch cyclists falling on the bike path ???

Miracles do happen, eh

cyclotaur wrote:

damhooligan wrote: Wearing protective gear, just because the unforseen may happen, and that protective gear may help you is something I personaly categorise as paranoia. Because we only apply this 'may' logic to one specific exercise/transport, but not onto others...

Each to his own. I don't think taking reasonable minor precautions constitutes paranoia. I'm sure no one expects to have a road accident but most of us are happy enough to strap on the seatbelt when we drive.

Define reasonable... As i do not look at it as reasonable..
Define minor... as I consider it NOT to be minor..
Define precaution, as I am not even convinced they prevent...

There are to many factors involved in the helmet wearing discussion for me to call it a 'reasonable minor precaution'.
A helmet is only worn for the 'what if' scenario..., that is clearly based on fear... , not reality...
Doing something as specific as wearing a helmet for only one specific form of transportation/exersise/....to me very clearly paranoia...

And threads like these, that only ignite this fear, and therefor applaud this unhealty paranoia , are far from helpfull...

cyclotaur wrote:My helmet 'saved' me recently when I fell whilst riding at <15kph on a straight section of dampened grass.... front wheel just slipped away on something. Treaded CX tyres, low speed, straight run - not sure what else I could have done ... maybe get off and walk. Maybe if I'd been moving faster I may have stayed upright ?

Either get off and walk or have a foot ready for a foot plant. Riding over wet grass without knobblies is asking for trouble. (but I still do it occasionally )

cyclotaur wrote:My head went from 2m off the ground to hitting the ground in under a second. I tried tensing and protecting my head but momentum and a whiplash effect meant it banged firmly on the ground.

Well maybe you do need to be wearing a helmet. But I know I don't need to wear a helmet in such a circumstance!

cyclotaur wrote:Each to his own. I don't think taking reasonable minor precautions constitutes paranoia.

But most people, when given the choice, don't see that helmets are reasonable minor precautions for daily commuting. Unless you suggest that dutch heads are different for Aussie heads?

vander wrote:Bahaha this is one of the funniest most ilinformed things I have ever read. Thanks for entertaining me. The amount of force created when you hit the ground is way beyond what the muscles in your neck are designed to withstand

Are you kidding me? Our bodies and reactions are designed to protect the head from falls. My body performed admirably when I had my 25kph low side spill onto brickwork. The fact that my head didn't hit the ground (despite my hips and shoulders) is testament to this protection.

But remember. Nobody is stopping YOU from wearing a helmet!

vander wrote:Having not really read any of the helmet stuff cause I cant be bothered getting into it .

vander wrote: Bahaha this is one of the funniest most ilinformed things I have ever read. Thanks for entertaining me. The amount of force created when you hit the ground is way beyond what the muscles in your neck are designed to withstand an extra 200g on a head that weighs more then a couple of kilo is not going to make any difference. Thanks for providing some entertainment.

Ahh...... dont you love being educated by the informed?

damhooligan wrote: Define reasonable... As i do not look at it as reasonable..
Define minor... as I consider it NOT to be minor..
Define precaution, as I am not even convinced they prevent...

There are to many factors involved in the helmet wearing discussion for me to call it a 'reasonable minor precaution'.

Well ... I wasn't talking about what you think .... like I said, each to his own.

damhooligan wrote:And threads like these, that only ignite this fear, and therefor applaud this unhealty paranoia , are far from helpfull...

I think you were the one who first mentioned 'fear' and 'paranoia'.

But I know what you mean - I feel the same way about those threads that bag the LBS ....

Percrime wrote:

vander wrote:Having not really read any of the helmet stuff cause I cant be bothered getting into it .

vander wrote: Bahaha this is one of the funniest most ilinformed things I have ever read. Thanks for entertaining me. The amount of force created when you hit the ground is way beyond what the muscles in your neck are designed to withstand an extra 200g on a head that weighs more then a couple of kilo is not going to make any difference. Thanks for providing some entertainment.

Ahh...... dont you love being educated by the informed?

Sample size of 1(one) is all that is required on a forum isn't it?

Blood in the water, attracts them every time.