Red light running cyclists + crash

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Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby Ross » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:27 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_WwwB6L ... r_embedded

This is from 2GB website, Ray Hadley was going on about it and how bad the cyclists were for going through the red light.
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by BNA » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:05 pm

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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:05 pm

Just in case he hadn't noticed, most of the cyclists went through on amber (just like the car drivers alongside), except the guy who stopped for the fallen rider. The guy who fell did so because he braked too hard and skidded.

:roll:


Yes, each cyclist should be responsible for themselves and follow road rules, but please, enough of the persecution !!
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby uncle arthur » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:13 pm

The lead rider had time to either:

Call "STOPPING" and have the bunch stop safely, or
Call "ROLLING" and have the bunch go through risking the yellow.

Obviously there was no organisation in the bunch because the final riders weren't sure of what was happening and hence there was a nose to tail (not to mention the rider who crashed was actually looking at something off to his side, and not on his riding line.........)

But of course what would some radio/TV shock jock actually know about the dynamics of group riding in a single file? :roll:
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:33 pm

uncle arthur wrote:Obviously there was no organisation in the bunch because the final riders weren't sure of what was happening and hence there was a nose to tail (not to mention the rider who crashed was actually looking at something off to his side, and not on his riding line.........)

Ah yes, you are correct, it was a tyre-clip rather than hard braking. But that all happened because the rider was looking sideways.... most likely concerned about, and distracted by, the tail-gating motor vehicle behind cutting in..... the vehicle carrying the camera :roll:

This is all of course further contributed to by that insane Sydney intersection treatment - the S-lane with a terminating left lane - something we gladly don't have to deal with here in Melbourne.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby tallywhacker » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:32 pm

il padrone wrote:
uncle arthur wrote:Obviously there was no organisation in the bunch because the final riders weren't sure of what was happening and hence there was a nose to tail (not to mention the rider who crashed was actually looking at something off to his side, and not on his riding line.........)

Ah yes, you are correct, it was a tyre-clip rather than hard braking. But that all happened because the rider was looking sideways.... most likely concerned about, and distracted by, the tail-gating motor vehicle behind cutting in..... the vehicle carrying the camera :roll:

This is all of course further contributed to by that insane Sydney intersection treatment - the S-lane with a terminating left lane - something we gladly don't have to deal with here in Melbourne.

can you please explain how the car driver could be tail-gating when the group came from behind his car and he was already moving when they came by
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby r2160 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:36 pm

I must admit, cyclists like this only give fuel to the fire.

The first 4 cyclists weren't intimidated by the vehicle with the camera, and the last two I don't believe were worried about the vehicle, they just didn't want to lose their mates.

If you look carefully, the light goes orange, and the cyclists all had plenty of time to stop. They are more than two vehicle lengths from the lights (based on the white ute in front of them). They are also merging into the lane of the vehicle with the camera, so I dont believe they were intimidated by the vehicle with the camera. We ask motorists to be patient and give us room, but when we display ourselves like this, we don't do ourselves any favours.

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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:37 pm

Yeah, OK, not really tail-gating, but cutting across on the cyclist, to sit right on his tail. A legal move with the aforesaid S-lanes, but it has contributed to the fall.

As I said, I reckon such lanes are poor road design and a death-trap for cyclists, as shown by the results in this video.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby human909 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:00 pm

A multitude of things contributed to this crash. It does go to highlight though the dangers of trying to ride in a slipstreaming bunch. I don't know why you would be gutter hugging & riding in a bunch like this.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby uncle arthur » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:42 pm

human909 wrote:A multitude of things contributed to this crash. It does go to highlight though the dangers of trying to ride in a slipstreaming bunch. I don't know why you would be gutter hugging & riding in a bunch like this.


Well I'd say they are in a bunch because looking at their matching kit, they usually ride, train, and race together.....

But it's still an example of bad riding for the conditions. They were on the gas as the lights changed, but the tail end got caught.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby baabaa » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:04 pm

Spit Road T section into Ourimbah Road Mosman.
Just dumb to run an orange heading north at any time at this spot, but in the morning, just madness as you have two lanes turning right in front of you.
No need to use that route anyway as much better safer options to the east and west.
This section of road is one of areas most hostile and best to avoid unless you really know it well.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby zero » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:16 pm

The lights were not the cause of the accident. Nor was braking.

The camera is mounted on a HGV (probably a bus), and the riders are left passing that moving HGV which is narrowing the space. The last rider is feeling pressure of the space closing, and is thus riding faster to clear, and gets far too close to the rider ahead, and then touches wheels and gets sprawled in front of a HGV. Sprawling in front of a HGV is something you take extra precautions to NOT DO. ie if you have to race to beat a HGV to a gap, then you are about to make a mistake.

IMO the rest of the bunch were not showing a good lookout in a lane change situation as cars changing lanes over the nose of a HGV is a pretty common happening, and neither party can know the other is there without looking after passing the HGV.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:41 pm

Il Padre

All I see is one cyclist doing what looks like a conventional head check that you would do before moving over to overtake. And seeing as he is the cyclist riding a fair bit faster than the prevailing speed and certainly faster than the riders to his front then that is probably what he was doing. It seems to me therefore that the errant and unfortunate rider was simply looking for the opportunity to either run the red light or to gain an extra position.

I couldn't even make a compelling case that the driver was being uncooperative in not letting riders in front of him take the front position. The video clearly shows that those riders were travelling faster than he was and by the time of the incident were separating further from the car. And the apparent ease and control of the cars braking indicates that the "tailgating driver" was preparing to stop and/or that he was driving well within safe limits.

I think you may be trying a bit too hard to arrive at a particular conclusion. I've seen you do better. :wink:

I note from the garb that the riders seem to be a group. I think in those circumstances it is incumbent on the leaders to always approach a possible red-light with slower than normal speed as though the last riders are a part of them. In effect as though they themselves are a 10 metre long bike in which the back end of the bike is the bit that has to be considered when judging if you can get through a controlled intersection.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:57 pm

'Twas yellow for the majority, doesn't make it a smart move tho'.

That is a common intersection treatment in NSW? Surprised the side of the road isn't littered with crushed vehicles.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby trailgumby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:26 pm

There are a few of those on the way outbound/north along Military Road, which then becomes Spit Rd. Biggest one is Cremorne Junction outside the Haydn Orpheum cinema.

I always feel nervous going through them, but have to say I've never once been squeezed by a motorist. They've all been good with letting me merge with plenty of room. The key is to look assertive and confident I think. That the lane is wide there probably helps.

Will check vid when I get home.... can't see here.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby gururug » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:37 pm

The main issue here is the cyclists trying to squeeze in the lane as a group ( rear riders not backing off earlier ), the red light just compounds things and causes the accident. If your going to hit a gap, you make a decision based on what will happen seconds down the track. This guy was way behind the ball.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby thomashouseman » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:43 pm

I'm just glad his waterbottles didn't roll down the drain. :D
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby arand18 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:09 pm

It could have been mutch worse, he could have fallen off and landed to the right next to a car.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby jimsheedy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:15 pm

They could all ride through the red light for all I care. At least they weren't sitting in their cars listening to Ray Hadley. Oh just typing the name makes vomit a little bit.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby Oxford » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:22 pm

there's no doubt the situation was avoidable. just as red lights will eventually go green, its inevitable that a green light goes red. if this group knew the route having ridden it previously or regularly, they should be aware of the issues and what to do when the group is split (and allow the group to split for safety reasons). poor road design (or execution of a good design) doesn't help the matter either. these guys should think themselves lucky the outcome was so relatively minor given what could have happened.

as for the shock jock and the person capturing the video, do either or both discuss the preponderance or post the video of motor vehicles running red lights? probably not, it would occupy too much time and be too shocking (too close to home as well). shocking given that when a motor vehicle runs a red light, the damage that can be caused is monumentally at a larger scale than what a cyclist could ever cause or do. and the motor vehicle driver may not even suffer an injury in the process, unlike the cyclist which will quite often end up getting some level of medical care.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:00 pm

Oxford wrote:(too close to home as well)

This. If smokeboxers took off the blinkers and bollocked each others naughties the way many of us do to each other here the roads would be a lot more than a damn sight safer
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby skull » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:18 pm

il padrone wrote:. most likely concerned about, and distracted by, the tail-gating motor vehicle behind cutting in..... the vehicle carrying the camera :roll:


Wait what, are we looking at the same video.

The vehicle cutting in is the vehicle that is already in the lane and being undertaking by a bunch of cyclists cutting in from a different land and the vehicle is also leaving plenty of room.

But anyway go on.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby damhooligan » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:27 pm

Ross wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_WwwB6LUhs&feature=player_embedded

This is from 2GB website, Ray Hadley was going on about it and how bad the cyclists were for going through the red light.



It may just be me, but I find this an amuzing accident.. :lol:

I find this a classic case of what not to do when drafting...
Clearly the rider at the back stuffed it..

But...... he crashed before the lights, so he did not ran a red light and crashed.
He just crashed...
So I find the title rather misleading... :D
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby trailgumby » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:28 pm

Now that i can see it i have a few observations.

1: typical shock jock rubbish. All the cars that ran the orange broke the law as well.
2: Silly mistake that could easily have been catastrophic
3: I bumped into this guy on the way to the Taronga Zoo wharf road for hill repeats.. He didn't say much except to confirm he had an off when i asked after spotting the holes in his kit.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby il padrone » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:42 am

skull wrote:The vehicle cutting in is the vehicle that is already in the lane and being undertaking by a bunch of cyclists cutting in from a different land

This I do not agree with (as a wise and viable road safety device)

S-lanes are crap. Gladly I do not see these on Melbourne's roads. The closest thing we have is a parking lane that runs out just before the intersection. Left hand traffic lanes should always continue through with clear priority (if you value the users of the kerb-side lane, usually the more vulnerable on the roads).

BTW, I do agree the actions of this particular bunch were unwise and foolish, but they should not be placed in such danger because of a dodgy road design.
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Re: Red light running cyclists + crash

Postby human909 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:45 am

What are S-lanes and why do they exist?

(I can see from the video a lane disappearing at the intersection which is weird considering intersections are a bottleneck anyway.)
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