New driving tests designed to stop carnage

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InTheWoods
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New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby InTheWoods » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:10 pm

Would this not be a good time to write to the minister, and the department, asking that some bicycle specific road rules be included? Eg. not dooring, 2 abreast, lane claiming, safe passing, giving way etc.

DRIVING tests for Queensland motorists will be overhauled with Transport Minister Scott Emerson set to introduce new measures to stop the carnage on the state's roads.

With the road toll yesterday hitting last year's total of 269 deaths, The Courier-Mail has been told the Q-SAFE driving test will be redesigned in the first half of next year to include more emphasis on "high-impact skills".


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/quee ... 6536433239

Contact details:
http://www.scottemerson.com.au/contact- ... erson.html

I certainly will be, if others too that would be great.

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InTheWoods
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:46 am

Crickets.

wilddemon
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby wilddemon » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:18 am

I'll get on board. I'm in NSW but we should stick together. Solidarity brothers.

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exadios
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby exadios » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:07 pm

InTheWoods wrote:Would this not be a good time to write to the minister, and the department, asking that some bicycle specific road rules be included? Eg. not dooring, 2 abreast, lane claiming, safe passing, giving way etc.

DRIVING tests for Queensland motorists will be overhauled with Transport Minister Scott Emerson set to introduce new measures to stop the carnage on the state's roads.

With the road toll yesterday hitting last year's total of 269 deaths, The Courier-Mail has been told the Q-SAFE driving test will be redesigned in the first half of next year to include more emphasis on "high-impact skills".


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/quee ... 6536433239

Contact details:
http://www.scottemerson.com.au/contact- ... erson.html

I certainly will be, if others too that would be great.


Holders of a driver's license, like the holders of an aircraft pilot's license, should be tested on a yearly basis.

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InTheWoods
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:09 pm

exadios wrote:
InTheWoods wrote:Would this not be a good time to write to the minister, and the department, asking that some bicycle specific road rules be included? Eg. not dooring, 2 abreast, lane claiming, safe passing, giving way etc.

DRIVING tests for Queensland motorists will be overhauled with Transport Minister Scott Emerson set to introduce new measures to stop the carnage on the state's roads.

With the road toll yesterday hitting last year's total of 269 deaths, The Courier-Mail has been told the Q-SAFE driving test will be redesigned in the first half of next year to include more emphasis on "high-impact skills".


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/quee ... 6536433239

Contact details:
http://www.scottemerson.com.au/contact- ... erson.html

I certainly will be, if others too that would be great.


Holders of a driver's license, like the holders of an aircraft pilot's license, should be tested on a yearly basis.


In my letter I did say that I thought the multi choice test should have to be done each time you renew your license.

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queequeg
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby queequeg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:22 pm

exadios wrote:
InTheWoods wrote:Would this not be a good time to write to the minister, and the department, asking that some bicycle specific road rules be included? Eg. not dooring, 2 abreast, lane claiming, safe passing, giving way etc.

DRIVING tests for Queensland motorists will be overhauled with Transport Minister Scott Emerson set to introduce new measures to stop the carnage on the state's roads.

With the road toll yesterday hitting last year's total of 269 deaths, The Courier-Mail has been told the Q-SAFE driving test will be redesigned in the first half of next year to include more emphasis on "high-impact skills".


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/quee ... 6536433239

Contact details:
http://www.scottemerson.com.au/contact- ... erson.html

I certainly will be, if others too that would be great.


Holders of a driver's license, like the holders of an aircraft pilot's license, should be tested on a yearly basis.


it would be a good start to immediately require all learners to progress to their P plates only with a qualified instructor. the problem at the moment is that anyone can "teach" a learner, whether they have the skills or not.

as for retesting, at least when i got my licence you only need to have a biannual review, and you only need that if you not undertaken any other training in the meantime. I never had a review as my two years kept resetting every time I added a new rating to my licence.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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exadios
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby exadios » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:47 pm

queequeg wrote:
exadios wrote:


Holders of a driver's license, like the holders of an aircraft pilot's license, should be tested on a yearly basis.


it would be a good start to immediately require all learners to progress to their P plates only with a qualified instructor. the problem at the moment is that anyone can "teach" a learner, whether they have the skills or not.

as for retesting, at least when i got my licence you only need to have a biannual review, and you only need that if you not undertaken any other training in the meantime. I never had a review as my two years kept resetting every time I added a new rating to my licence.


Yes, I should have made clear what sort of pilot's license I was talking about. Actually, I think that the interval between retests is not so important - the most important thing is that they occur.

PS Under US FAR 61.153 (c) "To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must: Be of good moral character". Possibly we could adopt this requirement for driver's licenses as well. :)

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queequeg
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby queequeg » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:07 pm

exadios wrote:
queequeg wrote:
exadios wrote:


Holders of a driver's license, like the holders of an aircraft pilot's license, should be tested on a yearly basis.


it would be a good start to immediately require all learners to progress to their P plates only with a qualified instructor. the problem at the moment is that anyone can "teach" a learner, whether they have the skills or not.

as for retesting, at least when i got my licence you only need to have a biannual review, and you only need that if you not undertaken any other training in the meantime. I never had a review as my two years kept resetting every time I added a new rating to my licence.


Yes, I should have made clear what sort of pilot's license I was talking about. Actually, I think that the interval between retests is not so important - the most important thing is that they occur.

PS Under US FAR 61.153 (c) "To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must: Be of good moral character". Possibly we could adopt this requirement for driver's licenses as well. :)


when I was learning to drive (in QLD), my instructor had another student who was, in his words, "unteachable". no matter how many times she drove, she continued to make the same mistakes and constantly argued as to why it was not a mistake. I hope she never got a licence! it would be nice to have a character check as part of the licence process.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

wilddemon
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby wilddemon » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:13 am

I have received a reply from Paul Alsbury, acting GM (Transport Regulation).

With regard to a cyclist component to the practical test (which I did not ask for?)
"It is important to note that cyclists may not always be on the road when Q-safe driving tests are being conducted. It is for this reason that it is not practical to incorporate mandatory 'cyclist' components into the on-road assessment. However, I can assure you that as part of the Q-safe assessment, drivers who fail to give way to other road users, including cyclists, will not pass"

"In terms of the road rules test for learner drivers, I can assure you that the current bank of questions already includes a number of questions about sharing the road with cyclists. TMR is not planning on reviewing the road rules questions at this time."

If you have not been thoroughly assured...

Further information;
Michael Skinner,
Manager - Transport Regulation Branch
07 3066 2142

demon

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InTheWoods
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby InTheWoods » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:23 am

wilddemon wrote:I have received a reply from Paul Alsbury, acting GM (Transport Regulation).

With regard to a cyclist component to the practical test (which I did not ask for?)
"It is important to note that cyclists may not always be on the road when Q-safe driving tests are being conducted. It is for this reason that it is not practical to incorporate mandatory 'cyclist' components into the on-road assessment. However, I can assure you that as part of the Q-safe assessment, drivers who fail to give way to other road users, including cyclists, will not pass"

"In terms of the road rules test for learner drivers, I can assure you that the current bank of questions already includes a number of questions about sharing the road with cyclists. TMR is not planning on reviewing the road rules questions at this time."

If you have not been thoroughly assured...

Further information;
Michael Skinner,
Manager - Transport Regulation Branch
07 3066 2142

demon


I haven't heard back from my letter yet. At least you got a reply, but a shame they aren't going to add more questions.

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ekib
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby ekib » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:27 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
wilddemon wrote:I have received a reply from Paul Alsbury, acting GM (Transport Regulation).

With regard to a cyclist component to the practical test (which I did not ask for?)
"It is important to note that cyclists may not always be on the road when Q-safe driving tests are being conducted.
demon


Well if thats the case, maybe we need to organise a system where in every area where Q-safe driving tests are being conducted there just happens to be a lot of cyclists riding around. :D

I think retesting driver's knowledge of the road rules is much needed. After all, most of us have not looked at the road rules since we were 17 or 18 years old and going for our licence!

Ekib.
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RonK
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby RonK » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:45 pm

ekib wrote:I think retesting driver's knowledge of the road rules is much needed. After all, most of us have not looked at the road rules since we were 17 or 18 years old and going for our licence!

Can't disagree with that idea. And I assume by "us" you mean cyclists should be regularly tested too.
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby Sydguy » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:47 pm

The driving test should be conducted when the candidate is exhausted and stressed. Some kind of obstacle course to be driven through, complete with moving peds, kids playing street cricket and random animals. You start once you get off your bicycle from a 100km ride, plenty of climbs, no stopping but at own pace.

Have a couple of armed guys in the rear seats firing automatic weapons from the windows at random targets/intervals. CD of screaming baby up full blast and every time the driver looks to be making a mistake the tester should scream at them.

This test should be done on a yearly basis. End of road carnage.

JM

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wombatK
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby wombatK » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:10 pm

It's an interesting premise that you can somehow design a driving test that will stop carnage.

Does anyone have some thoughts on just how you would test who would be likely
to drink-drive, speed excessively, drive while inattentive or fatigued, or just randomly
fail to see objects (like cyclists) in front of them ?

Is there any evidence that proves an association between testing and stopping carnage ?

To those who think more frequent tests will do it, why ? What is the evidence ? Why
should it be every ten years, two years, or one year, or six months, monthly or daily ? Which
testing period can be proven to stop drink-drivers or speedsters ?

If you make the testing process too tough, the low-lifes will simply drive unlicensed.

The real problem isn't the test required to allow you on the road. It's the failure to regard
actual driving offences as failures in a test that should result in your disqualification to drive.
At least on a three-strikes and you're out basis, and possibly less for drink-driving.

The difficulty with tougher consequences is detecting and arresting the
disqualified drivers - but its no more difficult that identifying unlicensed
drivers in a tougher license test world.

Cheers
WombatK

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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby Sydguy » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:47 pm

Driving is a perishable skill, so annual testing makes sense. You can stop the CARnage but a zero road toll is unlikely.

Testing would need to be extreme so people realise driving is serious, you are operating heavy machinery.

Few hours watching the aftermath of serious accidents, senior first aid certificate and a chat to some survivors would help.

JM

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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby Sydguy » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:10 pm

Technology will play a big part in detecting cars that are not registered, and hopefully erratic driving and other infringements.

Penalties should be more harsh, it can be less time but the time should be hard, model it on the fat camps they run in South Korea. Parents drop the kids off at these camps if they are fat, conscripts also go there if they fail army fitness tests. These are places you really do not want to be. Think 16 hour days of running and push-ups with three small taste-free meals!

Plain packaging should also be brought in for cars, standard hi-vis yellow so they are easy to see and have warnings painted on them. Perhaps graphic pictures of maimed people???

"The annual economic cost of road crashes in Australia is enormous—estimated at $27 billion per annum—and the social impacts are devastating."
Source: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/

Imagine if they decided to spend $27bn on trains/buses/cycle ways each year.... :shock:

JM

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KenGS
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby KenGS » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:05 pm

Sydguy wrote:Imagine if they decided to spend $27bn on trains/buses/cycle ways each year.... :shock:

We'd still have sub-standard public transport and cycleways - just lots more of them :P
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RonK
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:30 pm

Sydguy wrote:Technology will play a big part in detecting cars that are not registered, and hopefully erratic driving and other infringements.

Quite so. It won't be long before cars will be fitted with collision avoidance, speed control, alcohol detection, video cams and black boxes.

No doubt there will be a public outcry, but it can't come soon enough I think.
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il padrone
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Re: New driving tests designed to stop carnage

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:45 pm

The Dutch approach - everyone learns to ride a bike first, with a series of tests at school. Then later on they might do stringent road tests for a motor car licence. This ensures people have some experience of riding a bike, and have friends/family who ride. Helps to ensure that they care - the no. 1 failing of Australian drivers.
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