High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby jules21 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:18 pm

i think a lot of people get the visibility debate a bit wrong. the saying "if they see you, they see you" is a fair one in 99.9% of clear, daylight conditions. cyclists are not hard to see - almost invariably the reason for not seeing a cylist is simply not looking.

the risk is really around older drivers with poor vision. it only takes one and they're out there. hi-viz can be the difference in such cases.

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by BNA » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:50 pm

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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby ILMB » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:50 pm

My most recent SMIDSY (bright daylight) was a young (mid 20s) lass, despite me wearing high-viz, reflective jacket, and flashing front & rear-light. :roll:
It seems there is a class of driver out there that are just not aware of what's around them.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:58 am

ILMB wrote:My most recent SMIDSY (bright daylight) was a young (mid 20s) lass, despite me wearing high-viz, reflective jacket, and flashing front & rear-light. :roll:
It seems there is a class of driver out there that are just not aware of what's around them.

Not a SMIDSY there ILMB, that's a
Sorry
Mate
I
Don't
Give
A
Frack

Seems to be popular with younger ladies in small hatchbacks, tool laden (front and back) utes, certain makes of urban 4WD and small delivery vans.

Apart from not falling off, this is one of the first things I taught my kids about riding on road.

Shaun
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Howzat » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:02 am

il padrone wrote:Everybody seems to think it is so much more dangerous, when in fact it makes your cycling so much easier and safer :roll:


...I'm totally with you il padrone - the "control group" would be the ones riding in the gutter, with the B-doubles trying to squeeze past in the same lane.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby il padrone » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:03 am

Mulger bill wrote:Not a SMIDSY there ILMB, that's a
Sorry
Mate
I
Don't
Give
A
Frack

Seems to be popular with younger ladies in small hatchbacks, tool laden (front and back) utes, certain makes of urban 4WD and small delivery vans.

Yep Shaun, and I tend to think jules21's right hook was one of these as well.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby jules21 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:07 am

il padrone wrote:Yep Shaun, and I tend to think jules21's right hook was one of these as well.

the driver was an older gentleman and when i caught up with him he claimed the sun was in his eyes, which was true. he either didn't see me, or he grossly misjudged my speed (~35 km/h), maybe blended with a bit of SMIDGAF. the cops certainly didn't GAF when i sent it to them. i have no idea if hi-viz would have helped me (i was only wearing light coloured clothing), but there are recorded cases of older drivers with impaired vision running over cyclists - scott peoples being a notable one. for that reason, i won't wear dark clothing.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Howzat » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:48 am

jules21 wrote:he claimed the sun was in his eyes


Then he should have taken more care. That was a reckless turn - very scary.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:58 pm

Howzat wrote:
jules21 wrote:he claimed the sun was in his eyes


Then he should have taken more care. That was a reckless turn - very scary.

+10
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Cheesewheel » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:29 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:Wasn't this vest banned from sale by the courts?


I hope not.

I bought one.

I also bought one of these from the same guys since I thought I might as well capitalize on the stiff postage rate

Image

The writing on the back isn't reflec and I have seen cars whizzing around with blue and white cheques(for a customer replacement car for a crash repair mechanic of all things) - can't recall if it was reflec or not.

Seems like local distributors also have it
http://www.campbellfloatsstore.com.au/i ... duct_id=72

although you can buy a yellow one it also says : Exclusive for our Australian Customers this waistcoat is now available in Pink
:cry:
(just sent the distributor an email to see if they have any low-down on the legal specs for wearing it in Australia)

Maybe you can get off the hook if you are riding a horse?
("Officer I was just on my way riding my bicycle to my horse")


Obviously hi-viz doesn't work at night time since an absence of atmospheric light simply renders all colours more or less on a greyscale. Thats where reflec comes in handy. Anyone who spends quite a bit of time on the road day and night can understand (behind a wheel of course - what else would be at the apex of the predator pyramid for cyclists?) what does and doesn't work.

Basically the essence of cycling safety is to be visible (and predictable), so anything that adds to that equation is a plus. Its not just being visible but being visible at the greatest distance (since that will give on coming traffic more time to consider their options as opposed to simply whizzing past within a hair's breadth of you). More than once I have spotted a high viz (during daylight) /relfec (at night) cyclist way further down the road than someone not outfitted as such. When conditions worsen (such as in the middle of a shadowy rainforest/during rain/etc) the benefits increase even more. I am so convinced that I even stick 3M reflec tape of assorted colours (white, red, yellow and blue) on various parts of the bike frame (You should see what I did to my fairing equipped ICE trike :oops: ) .

I guess it does make the bike look a bit daggy, ... but when weighing up the value I know which side of the equation I want to be on

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(edit in "live fast, die young on a 2013 De Rosa Protos ")
:lol:
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Cheesewheel » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:20 pm

podoco wrote:
Howzat wrote:
outnabike wrote:We imagine that it is great, as we see workers etc wearing it, but it doesn't seem to stop vehicles shaving riders or constantly tooting horns at them.

Yeah, hi-vis won't change bogan driving habits. Not sure what would - blue and white checks, maybe. But as a driver, I see the hi-vis-wearing cyclists much more easily.

Update: Image
Image


Is the blue and white check vest legal in Aus??

just got word from the australian distributor


(I queried them since they said "pink is exclusively available for our australian customers" on their web site


quote:

"Pink is for our female customer nothing more.

This clothing is trademarked in Australia and holds Australian Patents
"

:D :D :D
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:23 am

Interesting... Any idea of shipping from the local distro?
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Cheesewheel » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:36 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Interesting... Any idea of shipping from the local distro?

If you go through their website they will probably give you a postage rate. I bought mine overseas - + £15.00 postage so I got a tail light and a chequered blue and white helmet band too
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby dynamictiger » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:16 pm

As one of the older drivers whose eyesight is less than 100% and waiting for my new glasses I must admit the best visibility of a cyclist I have noticed on the raod was a chap wearing a flourescent reflective ankle strap as he rode. The flashing light and movement attracted even my poor eyes from the fartherest distance I can see which is a huge acheivement.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Mrfenejeans » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:25 pm

dynamictiger wrote:As one of the older drivers whose eyesight is less than 100% and waiting for my new glasses I must admit the best visibility of a cyclist I have noticed on the raod was a chap wearing a flourescent reflective ankle strap as he rode. The flashing light and movement attracted even my poor eyes from the fartherest distance I can see which is a huge acheivement.


I started wearing the Scotchlite ankle straps a few months ago when it gets dim/dark. Good to know they do actually work.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:35 pm

Such ankle straps with reflective fabrics are one of the best conspicuity aids. They are always in motion and lie right where the following (or approaching) cars headlights will be shining. The will be picked up quicker than a reflective harness on your back or over top of a backpack.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby cp123 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:18 am

those polite vests have been discussed ad nauseum on horse forums since they Equitana trade show at the end of last year. I remember one comment from a person who questioned the sellers on "impersonating a police officer " or something similar and remember reading their response was very antagonistic. i could cut and past those threads if anyone wants them. But the overall thought was that by the time you were close enough to read them at 80 kmph that you'd better have a rock solid steady horse....
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:32 am

cp123 wrote:But the overall thought was that by the time you were close enough to read them at 80 kmph that you'd better have a rock solid steady horse....

I thought that was the point of them. Recognition cuts in gradually, beginning from a distance.

Yellow Hi-viz
Checkered blue & white
Label starting with 'P'
P-O-L-I-...

Ohh, POLITE :oops: by which time the motorist has tamed their speed and behaviour.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Cheesewheel » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:25 pm

il padrone wrote:
cp123 wrote:But the overall thought was that by the time you were close enough to read them at 80 kmph that you'd better have a rock solid steady horse....

I thought that was the point of them. Recognition cuts in gradually, beginning from a distance.

Yellow Hi-viz
Checkered blue & white
Label starting with 'P'
P-O-L-I-...

Ohh, POLITE :oops: by which time the motorist has tamed their speed and behaviour.

I do quite a bit of night driving and blue neon lights from restaurants, blue reflective lights from road signs and a host of other things that vaguely point in the general direction of police draw an immediate, practically instinctual response from me.

Also when riding my bike and similarly equipped, I can hear many motorists ease off the accelerator for that (*precious*) briefest of moments as they take in the situation
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Easy rider » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:50 pm

IMO Hi Viz during daylight has had a significant effect on the way people drive around me. Yes there will always be people who still might not see it or care, but after almost not noticing a cyclist in neutral clothing (and no helmet) at dusk while driving, I realised how easily we can blend into the landscape from the more restricted view within a car with all its obstructions and distractions.

So I bought a cycling jersey that happened to be Hi Viz, and I can hear people decelerating or braking behind me far sooner than they used to, and I'm convinced it's because they notice me sooner. As I approach intersections, people seem to be more cautious around me, driving slower and giving way, seemingly as though I'm some sort of "special case" - and I'd be happier with that assumption than taking a hit and becoming one. Perhaps they subconsciously think "This guy is so plainly visible I'd be so culpable in a Court if I hit him". I don't know what it is, I just feel way safer - but I ride just as defensively, always assuming I haven't been seen, which is the only way to ever go.

You know those times when you're about to cross in front of a car stopping (or slowing) at a stop line, and instead of waiting for you to pass they just pull out right in front of you? That happened to me several times a year before, but over the last three Hi Viz years: never. Maybe they weren't just being inconsiderate before, I was just less visible.

As a driver and a Hi Viz convert it's great to see more and more people wearing it (but sometimes obscured by a backpack), and I would never go back to my days in darker or neutral colours, particularly after I was softly knocked a couple of times in London by people who couldn't see me amidst the madness moving in all directions. I blamed them then, but I blame me now.

I cannot recommend it highly enough for daylight riding. Perhaps using my rear light day or night has helped as well.

Black lycra together with other dark colours seem to be popular choices for cyclists -and while you might think it's a better look, drivers aren't likely to notice what you look like if you're effectively invisible to them, blending into the shadows.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Marto » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:29 pm

Good to see an emphasis in this vid/promo on how easy it is to don Hi Viz gear (btw: is the last sentence in this video correct?)

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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby jules21 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:54 pm

no it isn't. i'd say that's probably why ch.10 has removed the video.
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby Sparx » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:12 am

This morning as I was tootling in to work I thought of another benefit of hi-viz.

This was my reasoning: who are some of the worst offending drivers - tradies. What do tradies often wear - hi-viz.

So maybe by wearing hi-viz, tradies might consciously or unconsciously recognise you as one of their own and be more careful.

:lol:
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby KenGS » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:53 am

Sparx wrote:This morning as I was tootling in to work I thought of another benefit of hi-viz.

This was my reasoning: who are some of the worst offending drivers - tradies. What do tradies often wear - hi-viz.

So maybe by wearing hi-viz, tradies might consciously or unconsciously recognise you as one of their own and be more careful.

:lol:

Don't you think the fact you're on a bike and not in a ute might give the game away :lol:
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby tallywhacker » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:08 am

the tradie may think you're on the bike because you've lost your license for either hooning, dui, or hitting a cyclist. You will be immediately elevated to hero status and given a wide berth :wink:
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Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Postby wellington_street » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:42 am

jules21 wrote:
il padrone wrote:Yep Shaun, and I tend to think jules21's right hook was one of these as well.

the driver was an older gentleman and when i caught up with him he claimed the sun was in his eyes, which was true. he either didn't see me, or he grossly misjudged my speed (~35 km/h), maybe blended with a bit of SMIDGAF. the cops certainly didn't GAF when i sent it to them. i have no idea if hi-viz would have helped me (i was only wearing light coloured clothing), but there are recorded cases of older drivers with impaired vision running over cyclists - scott peoples being a notable one. for that reason, i won't wear dark clothing.


For what its worth, I was also hit by an 'older driver' at night while wearing a bright yellow shirt and lights, in a streetlit area.

Other drivers on the road saw us but not the one that hit us. I'll never forget hearing the long beep of the car horn and thinking 'oh that can't be good' a moment before being hit - it was a bloke 2 lanes across who saw that the dumb fellow who hit us wasn't going to stop/slow.
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