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High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:35 pm
by Aushiker
The Guardian (UK) has an interesting article looking at the topic of high-viz clothing and cycling. In 2010 an Australian study looking at the stame subject, well night-time use of high-viz to be more specific found that
that reflective ankle and knee markings are particularly valuable at night, while fluorescent clothing is not. Cyclists wearing fluorescent clothing may be at particular risk if they incorrectly believe themselves to be conspicuous to drivers at night.


I ride Audax rides and we are required to wear high-viz on night rides.

Thoughts?

Andrew

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:45 pm
by grantw
Technically we are required to wear a "reflective garment" on night audax rides, they can be fluoro but its the retroreflectivity that is important not the colour. The Audax Guidelines are pretty clear.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:48 pm
by im_no_pro
There's a slang term for it in the U.K. that pretty much sums up my feeling on it's value, trying to remember what it was....

edit:
Got it: Urban Camouflage.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:54 pm
by il padrone
I never bother too much with 'hi-viz'. Bold coloured clothing - yes, at times. Reflective striped clothing - yes. Bold riding behaviour is very important as well IMHO. Very good lights at night - yes.

Audax's lighting rules are a good deal of overkill, but you need to know the history to that.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:07 pm
by grantw
Didn't someone post a link recently to an amusing piece of satire where a local council was painting everything Hi Viz to prevent people bumping into large obstacles, like buildings :D

When on rides I seem to notice people wearing red as standing out more, goes to that point in the article about contrast with the surroundings I imagine. Or perhaps it's just my subconcious memories of Kelly LeBrock.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:11 pm
by twizzle
Hi-Viz (fluorescent) requires UV light to fluoresce, therefore doesn't work at night. Reflective strips on the clothing are a different matter.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:15 pm
by Howzat
twizzle wrote:Hi-Viz (fluorescent) requires UV light to fluoresce, therefore doesn't work at night

Exactly. Hi Viz really does work during the day. You wouldn't expect it to be more visible than any other colour at night.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:39 pm
by outnabike
Just my experience,
But I reckon high vis is not all its cracked up to be. We imagine that it is great, as we see workers etc wearing it, but it doesn't seem to stop vehicles shaving riders or constantly tooting horns at them. I reckon I could wear a toy helicopter on my helmet with a flashing light on every rotor end, and it will only affect the good motorist.
In nature colour is well used as camouflage. I know this, and I do use brighter clothing in dark conditions , but the empirical evidence of smidsy's we read about, indicate that the average driver has his mind in neutral and just looks, but doesn't see.
Being a pedalling motorist most riders have a better look out for our counterparts, rather than just being in a hurry. You some times get the feeling that with all the workers out there wearing high viz that it may just add to the kaleidoscope of colour that effects our vista as we drive.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:47 pm
by bychosis
Default Night time garb for road workers is white overalls with reflective tape. Its all about the reflective stuff and a light colour helps a bit too. I dont bother with hi vis for riding, but do have a red, yellow and light/bright blue shirts in regular use. In rainy or poor light conditions I'll put a hivis cover on my commuter pack.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:02 pm
by il padrone
outnabike wrote:but the empirical evidence of smidsy's we read about

I reckon a very high proprtion of these are really SMIDGAFs :|

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:19 pm
by RonK
Not your normal hi-viz. I took a set of these Foskas jerseys on tour with me recently, and received numerous comments from motorists about how visible they are.
Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:14 pm
by Howzat
That's not a hi-vis jersey - this is a hi-vis jersey.

Image

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:19 pm
by Howzat
outnabike wrote:We imagine that it is great, as we see workers etc wearing it, but it doesn't seem to stop vehicles shaving riders or constantly tooting horns at them.

Yeah, hi-vis won't change bogan driving habits. Not sure what would - blue and white checks, maybe. But as a driver, I see the hi-vis-wearing cyclists much more easily.

Update: Image
Image

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:13 pm
by RonK
Howzat wrote:That's not a hi-vis jersey -

Ouch - turn it off...

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:53 pm
by fatdudeonabike
Howzat wrote:That's not a hi-vis jersey - this is a hi-vis jersey.

Image


Thats ugly as balls. But I love that their profits go to bike safety projects. I'd consider getting on of those actually.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:11 pm
by Toyopet
Agree that Hi Viz is not much use at night.
Reflective is what you need at night - 3M scotchlite or similar.

Does it work?
There was a long term study of NZ motorcyle accidents published in the British Medical Journal.
This study suggests that wearing Hi Viz or reflective reduces the risk of accident by 37%
http://www.bmj.com/content/328/7444/857
Similar risk reduction probably applies to cyclists too.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:35 pm
by il padrone
It'd be good to see a study into the risk reduction of simply riding wide to claim the lane (with good lights at night of course)

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:42 pm
by Mulger bill
I've got various reflective bits scattered around bike, bag and clothes, I'm not shy about pumping lumens but bright clothes do not blow my hair back.

Strong reds and blues and riding where people expect to see something has worked pretty well for me so far.

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:57 pm
by Aushiker
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB3lGxIhtCw&feature[/youtube]

Andrew

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:06 am
by podoco
Howzat wrote:
outnabike wrote:We imagine that it is great, as we see workers etc wearing it, but it doesn't seem to stop vehicles shaving riders or constantly tooting horns at them.

Yeah, hi-vis won't change bogan driving habits. Not sure what would - blue and white checks, maybe. But as a driver, I see the hi-vis-wearing cyclists much more easily.

Update: Image
Image


Is the blue and white check vest legal in Aus??

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:30 am
by The 2nd Womble
Wasn't this vest banned from sale by the courts?

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:30 am
by Howzat
il padrone wrote:It'd be good to see a study into the risk reduction of simply riding wide to claim the lane

Bags not being in the control group! :D

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:02 pm
by twizzle
Equisafety registered "POLITE" as an Australian trademark last March.


Sent from my iThingy...

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:47 pm
by wombatK
Are these audax rules - reflective garments the rules you refer to ?
Audax Australia – Reflective Garments Guidelines

Minimum requirement
Riders should ensure that the reflective garment uses retroreflective1 materials which are not less than 10mm wide and are placed horizontally across the front and back of the rider (refer picture 1) or from the shoulder to the waist (refer picture 2) or have an equivalent amount of retroreflective material on the front and back (picture 3).
Reflective piping is not considered sufficient.

Best Practise
It is recommended that riders use retroreflective garments which satisfy the Australian Standard for high visibility night (Class N) garments. These garments will be made from retroreflective materials which are not less than 50mm wide and will either (i) encircle the waist with additional strips over each shoulder to waist level or (ii) have two 50mm strips encircle the waist/chest and strip over each shoulder (but not full length to the waist).

If so, they seem to be a little on the soft side. In our litigious society, it would be very understandable if the audax rides mandated Class D/N garments (i.e. garments for both day and night hi-vis).

With shooters now being set loose in NSW National Parks, I suspect having 50 mm wide reflective material would be a
very smart idea. Too many animals have eyes 10 mm or bigger - so maybe less chance of being mistaken for an animal by a bogan with a spotlight if you have 50 mm width reflectors.

Cheers

Re: High-Viz ...Does it really work for cyclists?

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:08 pm
by il padrone
Howzat wrote:
il padrone wrote:It'd be good to see a study into the risk reduction of simply riding wide to claim the lane

Bags not being in the control group! :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUKZipHuUJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUNKox4-W90

No fluoro, hi-viz, reflective, bells, whistles nor disco lights. But notice how the traffic behaves. See cyclist, change lane, pass. No grief.

Everybody seems to think it is so much more dangerous, when in fact it makes your cycling so much easier and safer :roll: