Extraordinary school rule

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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby Howzat » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:30 pm

sogood wrote:
il padrone wrote:What happens on the road to and from school has nothing to do with the school and/or teachers. :roll:

In an ideal world yes, but those pesky parents and sensationalistic media will find a way to nail the department, school and teachers. Sad isn't it?

Mate, it's way more than that. There is a strong case for teachers being interested in kid's welfare out of school hours. Many people aren't aware, but a lot of kids get to school unfed, sick, unrested, or worse. Interested teachers may be the only defence the kids have. You can bet the parents get mad when teachers take action, but thank God they do it.

Now it's likely the rule wizdofaus dislikes is just a dumb rule. But it's fair for the school to make it, and fair for parents to challenge it too.
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by BNA » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:36 pm

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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby diggler » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:36 pm

How is this rule enforced? if you rode to school and parked on the street, how would they know?

Having said that, I'm not sure I would want my kid riding to school, even though I rode to school in high school. I'd have to accompany the kid a few times until I was confident the kid knew what they were doing.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:20 pm

diggler wrote:Having said that, I'm not sure I would want my kid riding to school, even though I rode to school in high school. I'd have to accompany the kid a few times until I was confident the kid knew what they were doing.

This is pretty normal, all part of good parenting these days, and what we did with our two.

When I was a kid my first primary school was a bit of a distance along and across busy main roads. The second one was a short walk. So I didn't ride a bike to them. I did ride to high school, but by then I'd been riding the local streets for nearly two years.... an eternity when you're a kid. Mum and Dad never rode bikes at all with us.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby Xplora » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:48 pm

I don't think a public school could hope to enforce that rule. They really couldn't. They can't expel or suspend the kid or do anything really, especially if the parent is willing to take it further. I would. If it is a private school, that's a different thing... but kids are legally allowed to ride bikes, so it is not negligence to allow them to ride to school. Public schools have the disadvantage that they are forced to provide the service regardless of how difficult the kids are.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:53 pm

Riding a bike to school is being a difficult kid???

:shock: :roll:


The most difficult kids are often the prats being driven by mummy in the BMW X3, in my experience.
Last edited by il padrone on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:54 pm

Xplora wrote:I don't think a public school could hope to enforce that rule. They really couldn't...

+1.

The other question is whether it's a matter that's worth getting on the wrong side of the school/principal/teacher. Some may also argue that the parents' decision to flaunt school rules may be setting a poor example to the young child. One needs to make one's own call.
Last edited by sogood on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:58 pm

My kids primary had a no rides policy for all students. Wasn't an issue as we lived all of a 300m walk through a reserve to get there. Only had to cross the street out front to get to the gate.

It's not the bikes that make riding to school potentially dangerous...
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:14 pm

sogood wrote:The other question is whether it's a matter that's worth getting on the wrong side of the school/principal/teacher. Some may also argue that the parents' decision to flaunt school rules may be setting a poor example to the young child. One needs to make one's own call.

Learning to challenge iniquitous rules is a part of a good civic education.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:22 pm

il padrone wrote:
sogood wrote:The other question is whether it's a matter that's worth getting on the wrong side of the school/principal/teacher. Some may also argue that the parents' decision to flaunt school rules may be setting a poor example to the young child. One needs to make one's own call.

Learning to challenge iniquitous rules is a part of a good civic education.

Quoted for truth.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:39 pm

"Shock, Horror, Aunty" on ABC1 right now exploring this very concept of using humour and satire to stand up to the rule-makers.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:44 pm

il padrone wrote:Learning to challenge iniquitous rules is a part of a good civic education.

But whether it's iniquitous is still debatable, even amongst cyclists on this forum (me not included as I don't have a fixed view on this issue yet).
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:02 pm

sogood wrote:But whether it's iniquitous is still debatable, even amongst cyclists on this forum

Looking back, I don't really see this, but I'll let forum posters have their say.

Personally I'd describe a school rule that discriminates against students on the basis of their transport outside of school is iniquitous per se. Particularly when it is likely based on a safety concern and that safety concern is due to people using more dangerous transport modes to get their darlings to school.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby bychosis » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:11 pm

I think our school has a similar policy, but it doesn't state unaccompanied.

I suggested I could take my son to school last year and my wife said no, it's too dangerous. I thought about it and agreed at the time. Narrow streets around the school, too many rushing parents parking all over, not enough footpaths. I have since ridden with a tag-a-long on one ocasion and it was no problem.

Now I need to work out how to get two to school, am thinking little one on tagalong and bigger one on his bike. They certainly wont be riding solo until they get some road sense, but I'll happily ride with them when RDO's etc allow.
Last edited by bychosis on Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby high_tea » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:12 pm

Well, here's an interesting question: would the rule be any better if it was a blanket ban on unaccompanied children below a certain age?
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby bychosis » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:17 pm

high_tea wrote:Well, here's an interesting question: would the rule be any better if it was a blanket ban on unaccompanied children below a certain age?


Probably, but i see many little ones trudging up the footpath/ road shoulders on their way and the unaccompanied rule might see them in cars too. It is more risky riding a bike for a little one with less road sense especially where there are no footpaths.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby Xplora » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm

high_tea wrote:Well, here's an interesting question: would the rule be any better if it was a blanket ban on unaccompanied children below a certain age?

It would make more sense, but it would still be a crappy rule. Children need to learn to look after themselves. That is why we send them to public education - to remove them from mum and dad and indoctrinate them into Parliament mandated culture. Cynical I know LOL

I think they would get more sense and safety from banning parents from parking inside the school zones for any reason. The car is the most dangerous object out there, and parents need to accept that if the school knows best, then banning them from stopping near the school would solve that.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby high_tea » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:58 pm

Xplora wrote:
high_tea wrote:Well, here's an interesting question: would the rule be any better if it was a blanket ban on unaccompanied children below a certain age?

It would make more sense, but it would still be a crappy rule. Children need to learn to look after themselves. That is why we send them to public education - to remove them from mum and dad and indoctrinate them into Parliament mandated culture. Cynical I know LOL

I think they would get more sense and safety from banning parents from parking inside the school zones for any reason. The car is the most dangerous object out there, and parents need to accept that if the school knows best, then banning them from stopping near the school would solve that.

Good luck with that. My daughter's school sent out a letter the other day. It concerned a request to build a carpark. It listed at length all the ways they had tried to get funding. It involved at least two levels of government. So we tried really, really hard but sorry, no money the letter said. There was good news at the end of the letter, though. It stated that there's a perfectly good free carpark just two minutes' walk away. The letter did not mention, but I will, that 90% of the walk was through the school grounds. Yup, enough people wanted to save, I dunno, 90 seconds or something and thought that building a carpark was a reasonable solution to this non-problem. Not only that, but that a freakin state school, a proverbially always-short-of money kind of organisation, should do it!
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby hannos » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:54 am

I think I'd be blaming the parents of the children that go to the school.
For isntance, at Gymea Bay PS, so many children ride bikes or scooters to school! It's great to see.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:54 am

How the Dutch do it. It's really not rocket science and should not be any hazard to your child's safety.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby wizdofaus » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:58 am

hannos wrote:I think I'd be blaming the parents of the children that go to the school.
For isntance, at Gymea Bay PS, so many children ride bikes or scooters to school! It's great to see.


Scooters aren't a problem, in fact several classrooms are completely surrounded with them. Just bikes for some bizarre reason. I had a response from BV's ride2school program indicating other parents have brought up the same concern.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:00 am

il padrone wrote:How the Dutch do it. It's really not rocket science and should not be any hazard to your child's safety.

Now, only if we could all have country living with cows, horses, pastures and no houses along our roads. Yep, now I know how they can do it.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:06 am

sogood wrote: country living with cows, horses, pastures and no houses along our roads.

That sounds a heck of a lot more like the typical Australian road than the typical Dutch path :wink:

A typical day of cycling in Utrecht (kids riding to school too). More people (including kids) riding bikes makes it safer for all on the roads, especially those walking and riding.
Last edited by il padrone on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:20 am

il padrone wrote:
sogood wrote: country living with cows, horses, pastures and no houses along our roads.

That sounds a heck of a lot more like the typical Australian road than the typical Dutch path :wink:

A typical day of cycling in Utrecht (kids riding to school too)

Been to Utrecht many times and a truly lovely place. Food is even better. However, when every second house has to be sought from behind a thick hedge or in the woods, its environment is no comparison to typical Australian population centres.

We can aspire to their style of cycling utopia, but let's build the infrastructures first.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby KenGS » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:26 am

That is SO irresponsible. A gang of kids, no dounbt on drugs, riding unsupervised, bare-headed, three or four abreast, on both sides of the path and inconsiderately holding up a car. And I hope they have adequate shower facilities at the school or the stench in the classrooms would be horrific if not a health hazard.
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Re: Extraordinary school rule

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:30 am

Trouble is, if you build infrastructure and don't also do something about changing rules and entrenched attitudes that work against cycling (like the attitudes of some primary school administrators) you get this:

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And then all the motor-heads bitch about taxes spent on bike facilities that are never used. So they press to have it removed (like the campaigns against Clover Moore's Sydney lanes).
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