Husband's first crash

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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby tallywhacker » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:38 am

trailgumby wrote:You may remember Lian Neeson's wife passed away after declining medical attention after a skiing crash. You only get one life,

AND she wasn't wearing a helmet
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by BNA » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:45 am

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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby MREJ » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:45 am

I agree with everyone else, it should be reported to the police. I hope your husband heals up quickly.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby Summernight » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:18 am

tallywhacker wrote:
trailgumby wrote:You may remember Lian Neeson's wife passed away after declining medical attention after a skiing crash. You only get one life,

AND she wasn't wearing a helmet

:lol:

A bit OT but I use my skiing helmet to move (more like knock) branches out of the way. That way my poles are used for turning and not blocking. Got some nice dints on the helmet now. I'm used to just dipping the head and letting the helmet take the hit. Plus it is a lot warmer than a beanie and won't shift on your head. Whether or not a helmet would have helped Mrs Neeson is another question, but the self diagnosis issue is key. Also her accident was a fair bit different to road riding, IMO, not that I'm going to get involved in the helmet debate.

Back on topic, I have a feeling my partner has a similar personality to yours, TraceyG, and would be reluctant to report anything not serious as he doesn't want to be a burden to anyone and just wouldn't want the hassle. I'm currently waiting on him to get his act into gear and get his passport application finalised (I had to play secretary and fill all the details out myself to even get to this stage, even though the form is a quick online one). I think it may be coming up to two months now since the need arose and the request was made. Not to mention that his previous employer may not have paid him his superannuation for the 5 years he was working there, which requires an investigation by the ATO and he just wants to stick his head in the sand about it, even though that is thousands of dollars he will be missing out on and potentially more thousands of dollars in compound interest that he won't have when he retires.

He knows he should do something but doesn't do it unless it becomes urgent or has been made so easy to do it isn't funny. Maybe suggest you'll accompany him to the police station or (if you can) draft up a really rough statement that he can take with him and print out copies of all the photos ready for him to hand over to the police?
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby Red Rider » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:57 pm

That was a good insight into how a driver with incomplete skills may assess a given situation. If it does not fit what they are used to (i.e. big object in front of them going at similar speed), they will revert to what they usually do, continue at normal speed and make a turn across a cyclist.
My mum was injured in a similar fashion, she was riding in a bike lane and a car passed her and immediately turned left across the front of her to go into a car park, she hit the front side of the car.

So if I am going straight when there is a turning lane emerging on the left, particularly when it is unmarked and therefore the 'lanes' are vague, I will look behind and and even put my right arm out for a few seconds if there is a car. This alerts the inattentive driver behind and they will then begin to watch what I am doing.

It always irks me when cars race past to turn, the sound of their tyres labouring to keep grip, they didn't have approximately 3 seconds to spare to wait for me! :roll:
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:41 am

Red Rider wrote:It always irks me when cars race past to turn, the sound of their tyres labouring to keep grip, they didn't have approximately 3 seconds to spare to wait for me! :roll:


3 seconds? Try no time at all. I know all of the choke points on my routes and whenever traffic furniture is coming up I will take the lane. I was traveling down hill at 50kph (the speed limit) and still had a douche bag put the power on and come around me to get to the choke point ahead of me. Since I wasn't almost killed, I didn't feel it necessary to go all hulk smash on him, but I did ride past him casually a hundred meters or so up the road at the lights.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby hannos » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:33 am

TraceyG wrote: I want him to report it to the police but he is reluctant.



You witnessed an accident. You're able to report it yourself! That driver needs some serious education and I reckon the only way they'll learn is to hit them in the hip-pocket otherwise it will only happen again.

Let's see, what did they do?
1. Caused an accident
2. Left scene of an accident without exchanging particulars.

That's enough to cause quite an education...
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby arkle » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:37 pm

I don't normally get involved in these reporting type discussions but in this case I think your husband should definitely report the accident and driver to the police. I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be reported but I can think of many reasons why it should.

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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby WarbyD » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:44 pm

What a joke some of the attitudes on here are....
(1) The OP did not make any suggestion of her husband having hit his head, losing consciousness or anything else that would suggest it appropriate for an ambulance to be called;
(2) A broken collarbone is not an emergency situation which would justify the call out of an ambulance;
(3) You will NOT die from shock as the result of a relatively minor cycling accident (if you really believe that, you're off in the clouds somewhere);
(4) Spending time sitting in an ER waiting room to be attended to is completely different to calling an ambulance out to "check you over;"
(5) Ambulance officers WILL begrudge you the call if you're wasting their time coming out to check on your sore elbow primarily so you can drive a point home to someone else;
(6) The fact that not everyone has completed a first aid course is not justification for wasting the time of emergency services;

They are called emergency services for a reason. Most broken bones, relatively minor cuts/grazes, etc are NOT emergencies. They are injuries yes, but you do not need to take up the ambulance service's valuable time coming to put a bandaid on you and kiss it better. You are not going to die if you do not receive immediate care for these injuries nor are they going to significantly escalate - call a friend or family member to pick you up and drive you to the ER for evaluation. The ONLY time I would suggest it is acceptable to call out an ambulance "just in case" (ie when it isn't already pretty obvious that one is required) is in the event of head trauma (any loss of consciousness, even momentarily = call that ambo immediately), suspected neck/back injury or reason to suspect internal bleeding.

If you really believe it's OK to call an ambulance out every time you fall off your bike, then I really hope that you don't have a friend or family member genuinely need one at the time that you, or someone else who shares your belief, is busy tieing up their time with a bit of gravel rash.

To the OP - again, I hope your husband's injuries heal well and I apologise for going off-topic here;
To those who will no doubt want to piss and argue about this because someone has dared to disagree with their arrogance - I won't be bothering to reply anymore, I've said my piece;
To everyone else - if you haven't already, go and do a first aid course!! It could be the most valuable 2 days of your adult life.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby Howzat » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:47 pm

WarbyD wrote:They are called emergency services for a reason. Most broken bones, relatively minor cuts/grazes, etc are NOT emergencies.

According to my health insurance, broken bones do constitute an emergency for which they cover ambulance costs.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby Howzat » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:52 pm

Red Rider wrote:So if I am going straight when there is a turning lane emerging on the left, particularly when it is unmarked and therefore the 'lanes' are vague, I will look behind and and even put my right arm out for a few seconds if there is a car. This alerts the inattentive driver behind and they will then begin to watch what I am doing.

+1 That is a good tip. I find the head check works quite well to let drivers know that you know they are there.
Speaking of people with, um, "incomplete skills", TraceyG's husband would do well to listen to his wife more often. :D
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby Summernight » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:39 pm

An ambulance isn't automatically called out if you call the '000' number and request an ambulance, as far as I know.

The Emergency Services Telecommunications Authority (the body that handles the '000' calls at least here in Victoria) would surely have their operators vetting calls prior to pressing the 'send job to ambulance' button. Then again, I may know nothing as I don't work in that area.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby Howzat » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:19 pm

You're not always at your most perceptive after a crash, either. A few months ago a friend hit the deck and broke his collarbone. But, he said, it could have been worse and he was relieved that he hadn't hit his head on anything.

At least, that's what he thought, until shown the remains of his helmet.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby KonaCommuter » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:28 pm

Summernight wrote:An ambulance isn't automatically called out if you call the '000' number and request an ambulance, as far as I know.

The Emergency Services Telecommunications Authority (the body that handles the '000' calls at least here in Victoria) would surely have their operators vetting calls prior to pressing the 'send job to ambulance' button. Then again, I may know nothing as I don't work in that area.



Sorry but you are wrong.


The initial 000 call is only vetted as far as establishing which service (Police, Fire Brigade or Ambulance) is required and to which communications centre to forward the call based on the area the service is required. In Queensland the Ambulance will be sent out regardless of the reason.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby Summernight » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:30 pm

KonaCommuter wrote:
Summernight wrote:An ambulance isn't automatically called out if you call the '000' number and request an ambulance, as far as I know.

The Emergency Services Telecommunications Authority (the body that handles the '000' calls at least here in Victoria) would surely have their operators vetting calls prior to pressing the 'send job to ambulance' button. Then again, I may know nothing as I don't work in that area.



Sorry but you are wrong.


The initial 000 call is only vetted as far as establishing which service (Police, Fire Brigade or Ambulance) is required and to which communications centre to forward the call based on the area the service is required. In Queensland the Ambulance will be sent out regardless of the reason.


Really? Thank you for the clarification. :)

Personally I'm one of those people who is a bit scared in calling the 000s as I think I'd be wasting their time. Hopefully I'll never have to make that kind of decision.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby DentedHead » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:18 am

KonaCommuter wrote:
Summernight wrote:An ambulance isn't automatically called out if you call the '000' number and request an ambulance, as far as I know.

The Emergency Services Telecommunications Authority (the body that handles the '000' calls at least here in Victoria) would surely have their operators vetting calls prior to pressing the 'send job to ambulance' button. Then again, I may know nothing as I don't work in that area.



Sorry but you are wrong.


The initial 000 call is only vetted as far as establishing which service (Police, Fire Brigade or Ambulance) is required and to which communications centre to forward the call based on the area the service is required. In Queensland the Ambulance will be sent out regardless of the reason.


Not so, here in Vic. My neighbour used to be a paramedic, and now is the one who vets such calls. It is also his job to determine to perform "triage" of sorts, and determine the urgency of each call, and direct the ambo's to the most urgent etc. His girlfriend is an operator, and they can vet some calls themselves (such as deciding that the Maccas drive thru giving incorrect change is in fact NOT an emergency... yes, it happened).


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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:51 am

WarbyD wrote:They are called emergency services for a reason. Most broken bones, relatively minor cuts/grazes, etc are NOT emergencies. They are injuries yes, but you do not need to take up the ambulance service's valuable time coming to put a bandaid on you and kiss it better.

I have had friends call an ambulance for me on two occasions when I had broken bones. In neither case did the ambos begrudge the call-out or laugh at my "minor injury", and they gave me neither a band-aid nor a "kiss better" :| I was given painkiller pens to breath on, morphine and a great deal of attention, before the drive out along rough bush tracks.

Broken NOF is a bit more than most people with first aid training would like to deal with, and the concept of someone trying to move me without substantial pain relief in that situation does not bear thinking about :o :cry: . Come to think of it, the 50mins in a car with a dislocated shoulder (having to hold the arm in a cyclist's 'stop signal') was probably something that may have been better dealt with in an ambulance :?
Last edited by il padrone on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby London Boy » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:53 am

WarbyD wrote:I find the suggestion to call out an ambulance just to drive home a message or to try and secure cover of costs absolutely abhorrent and massively irresponsible. Would you call an ambulance if you tripped over on the pavement and had a grazed knee and a bit of a sore wrist?

Most people are perfectly capable of assessing whether they require the urgent care provided by an ambulance following a minor accident [...]

No, that's plainly wrong. You can have all sorts wrong without realising it. You could have a haematoma but not know about it it for some considerable time, and then it paralyses or kills you. You could have a spinal injury which does not become evident until you stress a vertebra in a particular way, or until inflammation sets in and your spinal cord packs in as a result. You could have an abdominal bleed which does not cause immediate symptoms that we would consider serious, but which later leads to shock and possible death. Etc.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby KonaCommuter » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:37 pm

DentedHead wrote:
KonaCommuter wrote:
Summernight wrote:An ambulance isn't automatically called out if you call the '000' number and request an ambulance, as far as I know.

The Emergency Services Telecommunications Authority (the body that handles the '000' calls at least here in Victoria) would surely have their operators vetting calls prior to pressing the 'send job to ambulance' button. Then again, I may know nothing as I don't work in that area.



Sorry but you are wrong.


The initial 000 call is only vetted as far as establishing which service (Police, Fire Brigade or Ambulance) is required and to which communications centre to forward the call based on the area the service is required. In Queensland the Ambulance will be sent out regardless of the reason.


Not so, here in Vic. My neighbour used to be a paramedic, and now is the one who vets such calls. It is also his job to determine to perform "triage" of sorts, and determine the urgency of each call, and direct the ambo's to the most urgent etc. His girlfriend is an operator, and they can vet some calls themselves (such as deciding that the Maccas drive thru giving incorrect change is in fact NOT an emergency... yes, it happened).


Dent.



Well, I used to do both jobs, on road and comm's for Queensland Ambulance. If you call an Ambulance an Ambulance will come. You will be triaged on the phone according to a rigid system which will be used to determine the appropriate response. You will be asked specific questions in a specific order. The operator has NO leeway in this regard. They need that information and they need it in that order.

So my advice is this

* If you think you or someone else needs an ambulance you need an ambulance. You can always call back and cancel or refuse treatment / transport.


* The very first question you will be asked by the Ambulance is for the phone number you are calling from. This is so that they can call you back if the call gets disconnected. If you don't know it don't stress because your number should show up on their screen and be logged (private number doesn't exist if you call 000) Caveat - Skype call don't show up. If it's a borrowed phone just say so, maybe get a number they can call back on (mobile of someone else there?)
* The second question is "what is the exact address of the emergency". Again, if the call is disconnected at least they know where to send the troops
* The Third question "What is the problem? Tell me exactly what happened".


If you call from your home phone the address will show up as well which is very helpful. But we are on a cycling forum and the OP was on the road. So the address becomes a bit more problematic. Think to yourself how you'd give directions to where you are when you're out and about. Sometimes it's easy. Oft times it's not so clear cut. "I'm upside down in a ditch" was all one young lady could tell me when she rolled her car. Or "You know that red building on the hill?" was the helpful directions I got from a party goer who stumbled across someone that was bashed and dazed. I digress though, knowing where you are and being able to direct someone whom is unfamiliar with the area (but has a very good map) is helpful as well.


Again, I'm banging on. The long and short of it is, if in doubt, call 'em out.
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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby arkle » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:42 pm

Since most smart phones now sport GPS and know where they are perhaps the firmware could be made to automatically transmit details of the phone's exact location whenever a 000 call is made, or an app could be developed that enables a 000 operator to locate the phone via the internet in the same way that Find My Friends works.

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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby ozzymac » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:25 pm

arkle wrote:Since most smart phones now sport GPS and know where they are perhaps the firmware could be made to automatically transmit details of the phone's exact location whenever a 000 call is made, or an app could be developed that enables a 000 operator to locate the phone via the internet in the same way that Find My Friends works.

arkle


Road service app supposedly does that, so it would be a simple thing to implement.

As for not calling ambulances for a broken bone, that is the most ridiculous thing I have read on here for a while.

Wife fell off her bike and broke her ankle, how was i going to get her to hospital without any pain relief etc.


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Re: Husband's first crash

Postby sogood » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:12 pm

arkle wrote:Since most smart phones now sport GPS and know where they are perhaps the firmware could be made to automatically transmit details of the phone's exact location whenever a 000 call is made, or an app could be developed that enables a 000 operator to locate the phone via the internet in the same way that Find My Friends works.

I understand that the emergency service already have access to this data when specifically required.
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