A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby find_bruce » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:29 am

Has there been a change in attitude or approach to the road rules by the NSW Police - see jailing of driver wont bring back little Kevin
A driver who fatally struck a five-year-old boy as he walked to a southern Sydney school has been charged with negligent driving occasioning death, following a three-month investigation. ... NSW Police crash investigation unit Chief Inspector Mark Cook said ... drugs, alcohol or speed were not involved in the incident.

Does this mean a new era where the Police are willing to accept that crashes might be caused by something other than just drugs, alcohol or speed, or is it limited to cases involving 5 year old kids on their way to school ?
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3566
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

by BNA » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:38 am

BNA
 

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby biker jk » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:38 am

Alas the maximum sentence for a first offence is just 18 months for killing someone.
User avatar
biker jk
 
Posts: 2506
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby find_bruce » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:44 am

It is the unfortunate consequence of the notorious reluctance of juries to convict drivers for the proper offence - manslaughter, which carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment, but the actual sentence will vary considerably depending on the circumstances.

As a concqeuence of this reluctance the parliaments introduced alternative charges with lesser penalties - dangerous driving causing death, maximum 10 years, aggravated driving causing death, maximum 14 years - both under Crimes Act s 52A, and the negligent driving causing death charges, now under s 42 of the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999, which as you say have a maximum penalty of 18 months.

Getting negligent drivers charged at all is the first step
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3566
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:51 am

find_bruce wrote:As a concqeuence of this reluctance the parliaments introduced alternative charges with lesser penalties

Wouldn't have anything to do with the driving habits of our parliamentarians and legal-heads ????
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18182
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby find_bruce » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:02 am

find_bruce wrote:As a concqeuence of this reluctance the parliaments introduced alternative charges with lesser penalties
il padrone wrote:Wouldn't have anything to do with the driving habits of our parliamentarians and legal-heads ????

Not by the current ones in any event - the offence of Dangerous Driving occasioning death was introduced in NSW in 1951
User avatar
find_bruce
 
Posts: 3566
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby Sydguy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:09 pm

The craziest attitude in the article is the poor lads family - no gaol time. Get serious - wow.

Attitudes need to change, people who break the law on the roads should be social pariahs, modern day lepers. Just last night I was almost hit by a fail to indicate, this morning it was a fail to give way... fail to concentrate, fail to drive safely, fail to penalise drivers and you fail to change community attitudes.

JM
Sydguy
 
Posts: 749
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: Sydney (Rhodes to City Commuter)

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby KonaCommuter » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:13 pm

Sydguy wrote:The craziest attitude in the article is the poor lads family - no gaol time. Get serious - wow.

Attitudes need to change, people who break the law on the roads should be social pariahs, modern day lepers. Just last night I was almost hit by a fail to indicate, this morning it was a fail to give way... fail to concentrate, fail to drive safely, fail to penalise drivers and you fail to change community attitudes.

JM



Quoted for truth.



I knew a retiree that was responsible for killing a pedestrian because he insisted on driving when he knew he shouldn't have been (age related). He voluntarily gave up his licence and that's it, everyone was happy.
User avatar
KonaCommuter
 
Posts: 978
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:28 pm
Location: Brisbane Northside

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby human909 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:34 pm

Sydguy wrote:Attitudes need to change, people who break the law on the roads should be social pariahs, modern day lepers.


Yep all those pedestrians ignoring the red man should be "social pariahs, modern day lepers". :roll:

It isn't breaking laws that kill people. It is careless road behaviour. There are SIGNIFICANT differences between them.
human909
 
Posts: 4728
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 am

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:48 pm

KonaCommuter wrote:I knew a retiree that was responsible for killing a pedestrian because he insisted on driving when he knew he shouldn't have been (age related). He voluntarily gave up his licence and that's it, everyone was happy.

Sounds just like the tragic death of Scott Peoples, except he was a promising road cyclist out riding. :(

pleaded guilty to careless driving and was fined $1287. His licence was disqualified for three years.....

......"As a matter of common sense, when the same motorist runs down from behind and seriously injures one cyclist, and kills another 23 months later on the same road 16 kilometres apart, in bright sunshine, questions need to be asked," Mr Bryant said.

"They were not."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/coron ... z2Od7oN6Px
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18182
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:16 pm

Sydguy wrote:The craziest attitude in the article is the poor lads family - no gaol time. Get serious - wow.

Attitudes need to change, people who break the law on the roads should be social pariahs, modern day lepers. Just last night I was almost hit by a fail to indicate, this morning it was a fail to give way... fail to concentrate, fail to drive safely, fail to penalise drivers and you fail to change community attitudes.

JM


Doesn't matter if the penalty is $100k and the loss of a finger if the odds of being pinged is low enough. Getting caught regularly is a better deterrent than the punishment.
User avatar
Mulger bill
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 25567
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Sunbury Vic

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:37 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Getting caught regularly and having Police who bother to prosecute is a better deterrent than the punishment.

Fixed that :|
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18182
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby Sydguy » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:38 pm

@human909 - lol I was kind of angling towards the more serious cases, running red lights in my world is only illegal in motorised vehicles. But thanks for picking that up - great reason why I suspect a lot of people go to post then decide not to.

@Mulger bill - good point, sad thing is the cost of extra law enforcement is probably more than the cost of the current carnage.

JM
Sydguy
 
Posts: 749
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: Sydney (Rhodes to City Commuter)

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby Ross » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:08 am

il padrone wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Getting caught regularly and having Police who bother to prosecute is a better deterrent than the punishment.

Fixed that :|


But when they go to court the magistrate lets the offendor off with a slap on the wrist, if that. There is a recent case of a taxi driver here in Canberra that dropped off a passenger and then deliberately and maliciously ran him down causing serious injuries including broken pelvis and the taxi driver drove off and left the guy lying injured on the road but was tracked down and arrested a couple of days later. Taxi driver appeared in court and was granted bail and is back driving taxis again. :evil:
User avatar
Ross
 
Posts: 3675
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:39 am

Yes, I'm sure that occurs too. But we have had some serious 'fail to prosecute' cases - Scott Peoples (inadequate penalty) and James Cross (car-door death, no action by Police). In James' case the police were told by superiors not to lay any charges, not even the paltry $350 fine - go figure. A young man was killed. Massive power and influence afoot methinks :evil:

Even had one myself - a seriously close-shave at 100kmh, witness said about 5-8cm, malicious and very deliberate, the driver was blasting the horn at us for no reason from about 200m back. All details were reported to police. The police officer was actually very good, kept in touch, took statements then was to pass them on to the DPP for a decision on prosecuting. I heard no more :x
Last edited by il padrone on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18182
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby simonn » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:42 am

il padrone wrote:Even had one myself - a seriously close-shave at 100kmh, witness said about 5-8cm, malicious and very deliberate, the driver was blasting the horn at us for no reason from about 200m back. All details were reported to police. The police officer was actually very good, kept in touch, took statements then was to pass them on to the DPP for a decision on prosecuting. I heard no more :x


What is the law in VIC? I know in NSW being too close is only too close when someone is hit, so maybe the problem is law itself in this case, therefore a meter matters.
User avatar
simonn
 
Posts: 3575
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:46 am
Location: Sydney

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:48 am

Police officer was in agreeance that it stood a good chance of dangerous driving IIRC. Driver came over a rise and straight-off (200m away) was blasting his horn.... several times. We had been riding double, then moved into single-file. He continued to blast the horn. Two lane road, straight, no oncoming traffic, and yet he flew past me at full speed with 5-8cm of clearance. :evil:

I'd rather a clearer rule - change lanes fully to overtake. It's simple and clear, much more so than a 1 metre rule (Was that 1m or 95cm?). One interpretation of the road rules is that lane-splitting by drivers is illegal anyway (Rule 146), so most drivers overtake illegally.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18182
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby exadios » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:01 pm

Sydguy wrote:The craziest attitude in the article is the poor lads family - no gaol time. Get serious - wow.

Attitudes need to change, people who break the law on the roads should be social pariahs, modern day lepers. Just last night I was almost hit by a fail to indicate, this morning it was a fail to give way... fail to concentrate, fail to drive safely, fail to penalise drivers and you fail to change community attitudes.

JM


In my view the issue is not how law breakers are treated after they break the law - its about how they are trained and tested before they break the law. At the very minimum I believe that drivers should have to pass regular tests in order to keep their licenses.
User avatar
exadios
 
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:07 am
Location: Melville, WA

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby exadios » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:03 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
Sydguy wrote:The craziest attitude in the article is the poor lads family - no gaol time. Get serious - wow.

Attitudes need to change, people who break the law on the roads should be social pariahs, modern day lepers. Just last night I was almost hit by a fail to indicate, this morning it was a fail to give way... fail to concentrate, fail to drive safely, fail to penalise drivers and you fail to change community attitudes.

JM


Doesn't matter if the penalty is $100k and the loss of a finger if the odds of being pinged is low enough. Getting caught regularly is a better deterrent than the punishment.


+1
User avatar
exadios
 
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:07 am
Location: Melville, WA

Re: A change of attitude for NSW Police ?

Postby exadios » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:04 pm

Ross wrote:
il padrone wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Getting caught regularly and having Police who bother to prosecute is a better deterrent than the punishment.

Fixed that :|


But when they go to court the magistrate lets the offendor off with a slap on the wrist, if that. There is a recent case of a taxi driver here in Canberra that dropped off a passenger and then deliberately and maliciously ran him down causing serious injuries including broken pelvis and the taxi driver drove off and left the guy lying injured on the road but was tracked down and arrested a couple of days later. Taxi driver appeared in court and was granted bail and is back driving taxis again. :evil:


That's because he has not yet been tried and, therefore, may be innocent.
User avatar
exadios
 
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:07 am
Location: Melville, WA


Return to Cycling Safety and Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter