Another fatality, Cairns today

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Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby Ken Ho » Sat May 11, 2013 11:45 am

Three lines on breaking news, less than Fifi Box's baby, whoever she is.
No other details at present, other than female rider killed by white ute.
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by BNA » Sat May 11, 2013 11:59 am

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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby trailgumby » Sat May 11, 2013 11:59 am

Sheesh. :(
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby Ken Ho » Sat May 11, 2013 12:27 pm

I've ridden out eh north side a few times. There is a good shoulder in most places, but there is also a series of roundabouts, with cycle lanes on the left that separate you from the traffic stream, with a concrete divider, but invite a left hook as you enter the roundabout itself. I don't use the cycle lanes, preferring to take a lane. The alternative is to pretty much stop to check for the left turning car before I enter to cross the lane. The cycle lanes are a nice idea, but they are a very flawed design.
I don't know if this contributed.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby find_bruce » Sat May 11, 2013 5:00 pm

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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby oxonabike » Sat May 11, 2013 6:07 pm

Ken Ho wrote:I've ridden out eh north side a few times. There is a good shoulder in most places, but there is also a series of roundabouts, with cycle lanes on the left that separate you from the traffic stream, with a concrete divider, but invite a left hook as you enter the roundabout itself. I don't use the cycle lanes, preferring to take a lane. The alternative is to pretty much stop to check for the left turning car before I enter to cross the lane. The cycle lanes are a nice idea, but they are a very flawed design.
I don't know if this contributed.


I didn't realise this had happened until I opened this thread. Earlier today I rode past in the opposite direction what I now know is the site of the fatality - police, emergency services, traffic controllers etc were still on site. This was on a straight section of road, with a decent width of 'bike lane'. News (just came on) is reporting that she was in the 'bike line' but catapulted over the a safety barrier. Apparently the ute driver recorded a positive Blood Alcohol reading according to the same news item.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat May 11, 2013 7:34 pm

Sign the petition!!!
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby oxonabike » Sat May 11, 2013 7:49 pm

Yep, signed already.

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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby ozzymac » Sat May 11, 2013 10:42 pm

Said on the news tonight she was riding in a bike lane and was hit by a drunk p plate driver.

Guess were not safe even in bike lanes.



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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun May 12, 2013 1:52 pm

ozzymac wrote:Said on the news tonight she was riding in a bike lane and was hit by a drunk p plate driver.

Guess were not safe even in bike lanes.



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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby JessicaAlba » Sun May 12, 2013 2:05 pm

Got a txt from mate's Mrs at 8am yesterday "You aren't out riding are you??"

That was the first I had heard of something being up. Checking headlines this morning, I found out just what had happened.

It is a bit dicey heading up the highway at times, although the bike lanes are mostly ample in space.

A real tragedy. Not only has the driver ruined the lives of someone's family and friends, he's pretty much ruined his own life too...
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun May 12, 2013 2:22 pm

JessicaAlba wrote:Got a txt from mate's Mrs at 8am yesterday "You aren't out riding are you??"

That was the first I had heard of something being up. Checking headlines this morning, I found out just what had happened.

It is a bit dicey heading up the highway at times, although the bike lanes are mostly ample in space.

A real tragedy. Not only has the driver ruined the lives of someone's family and friends, he's pretty much ruined his own life too...

Please don't feel angything but disgust for the driver. He has grown up with the knowledge that drink driving can and does kill. He made that decision at some point knowing the risks. He may be a P Plater, but drink driving is not a right of passage.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby Ken Ho » Sun May 12, 2013 3:05 pm

Blood alcohol was 0.076.
Legal limit used to be 0.08.
There is more at play than alcohol here. I sense an elbow shave gone wrong.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby coyote » Sun May 12, 2013 3:34 pm

"Carins Post"

Man charged after crash where cyclist died

Grace Uhr

Sunday, May 12, 2013

© The Cairns Post

A MAN involved in a crash where a cyclist died early Saturday has been charged.

The 19-year-old Mt Isa man allegedly recorded a blood alcohol reading of 0.076 per cent.

Tanya Roneberg died after the collision on the Captain Cook Highway around 7.15am on Saturday.

Police allege the cyclist was struck when the utility was heading northbound between the Holloways Beach and Yorkeys Knob intersections.

The man was charged with one count of dangerous operation of a motor vehicle causing death and one count of drink driving.

He was bailed to appear in the Cairns Magistrates Court on June 17.

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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby find_bruce » Sun May 12, 2013 4:38 pm

Ken Ho wrote:Blood alcohol was 0.076.
Legal limit used to be 0.08.
There is more at play than alcohol here. I sense an elbow shave gone wrong.

There are very good reasons why the limit was dropped from 0.08 to 0.05 - the scientific explanation is long & detailed & I won't bore you with it, but the summary is that there are two factors at play (1) different impairment comes into play the higher the alcohol level - from memory it goes something along the lines of perception of risk, balance, response times, fine motor skills, gross motor skills - a person may still have the physical ability to drive but lack the judgement to do so safely & (2) not everyone is affected equally - the correlation between level of alcohol & accident risk has been studied many times over & starts to rise around 0.05, even though you could not state with certainty that a person is impaired.

In this case however a 19 year old driver will be on p plates and have a zero alcohol limit. A person on p-plates who is prepared to drive with a blood alcohol of 0.076 has already demonstrated seriously impaired judgement
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby thecaptn » Sun May 12, 2013 5:06 pm

While not wishing to take the focus away from the poor lady who was killed, it'l be interesting to see what penalty the queensland legal system gives the driver.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby JessicaAlba » Sun May 12, 2013 5:30 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:
JessicaAlba wrote:Got a txt from mate's Mrs at 8am yesterday "You aren't out riding are you??"

That was the first I had heard of something being up. Checking headlines this morning, I found out just what had happened.

It is a bit dicey heading up the highway at times, although the bike lanes are mostly ample in space.

A real tragedy. Not only has the driver ruined the lives of someone's family and friends, he's pretty much ruined his own life too...

Please don't feel angything but disgust for the driver. He has grown up with the knowledge that drink driving can and does kill. He made that decision at some point knowing the risks. He may be a P Plater, but drink driving is not a right of passage.


O, I assure you, there is no sympathy there and he will absolutely get all that he deserves.

Might someone please define "elbow shave" for me?
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby Percrime » Sun May 12, 2013 6:19 pm

Without saying that one was intended; lthough I will say it is a manoeuvre practiced mostly by young men in utes or holden commodores, its a pass as close as the judgement of the driver allows to throw a scare into a cyclist. . A couple of cm is the desired closeness. Sadly I have been brushed by a car and then caught him at the lights. With an escape avenue a metre wider than his car that he was not game to use. So judgement can be an issue.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby Ken Ho » Sun May 12, 2013 6:30 pm

find_bruce wrote:
Ken Ho wrote:Blood alcohol was 0.076.
Legal limit used to be 0.08.
There is more at play than alcohol here. I sense an elbow shave gone wrong.

There are very good reasons why the limit was dropped from 0.08 to 0.05 - the scientific explanation is long & detailed & I won't bore you with it, but the summary is that there are two factors at play (1) different impairment comes into play the higher the alcohol level - from memory it goes something along the lines of perception of risk, balance, response times, fine motor skills, gross motor skills - a person may still have the physical ability to drive but lack the judgement to do so safely & (2) not everyone is affected equally - the correlation between level of alcohol & accident risk has been studied many times over & starts to rise around 0.05, even though you could not state with certainty that a person is impaired.

In this case however a 19 year old driver will be on p plates and have a zero alcohol limit. A person on p-plates who is prepared to drive with a blood alcohol of 0.076 has already demonstrated seriously impaired judgement


I think you have misinterpreted me. My point was not that his alcohol level should be ignored or excused. Nor am I disputing the current limits.
My point was that it was not high enough to fully explain a loss of control in such circumstances and that I suspect hat he deliberately drove close. I am, of course, speculating.
I'm a bit touchy about this, as I've recently been elbow shaved by a Wide load which barely missed me though I was over a metre to the left of the white line on a wide shoulder, a caravan and a B-double, who both had a full clear lane to give me room with, as well as the usual trades and mine vehicles.
It old easily be me you are reading about. I think we all get shaved regularly and feel that.
Last edited by Ken Ho on Sun May 12, 2013 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby jcjordan » Sun May 12, 2013 6:30 pm

I have always felt that the limit for driving shoild be 0. There is no excuse for getting behind the wheel while impaired.

Add to that of you do the first offense need to begin with a 2 year loss of license and require you to go through the whole L and P plate processes.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby thecaptn » Sun May 12, 2013 6:44 pm

jcjordan wrote:I have always felt that the limit for driving shoild be 0. There is no excuse for getting behind the wheel while impaired.

Add to that of you do the first offense need to begin with a 2 year loss of license and require you to go through the whole L and P plate processes.

Sounds appropriate to me.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby Mulger bill » Sun May 12, 2013 7:02 pm

thecaptn wrote:While not wishing to take the focus away from the poor lady who was killed, it'l be interesting to see what penalty the queensland legal system gives the driver.

Based on recent history in QLD, a voucher to get his smokebox panel beaten and a written apology from the young ladies family?[/sarcasm]
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby JessicaAlba » Sun May 12, 2013 8:50 pm

Percrime wrote:Without saying that one was intended; lthough I will say it is a manoeuvre practiced mostly by young men in utes or holden commodores, its a pass as close as the judgement of the driver allows to throw a scare into a cyclist. . A couple of cm is the desired closeness. Sadly I have been brushed by a car and then caught him at the lights. With an escape avenue a metre wider than his car that he was not game to use. So judgement can be an issue.


That is seriously messed up.

I feel physically ill just thinking of such a thing happening.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby find_bruce » Sun May 12, 2013 8:57 pm

Ken Ho wrote:I think you have misinterpreted me. My point was not that his alcohol level should be ignored or excused. Nor am I disputing the current limits.
My point was that it was not high enough to fully explain a loss of control in such circumstances and that I suspect hat he deliberately drove close. I am, of course, speculating.
I'm a bit touchy about this, as I've recently been elbow shaved by a Wide load which barely missed me though I was over a metre to the left of the white line on a wide shoulder, a caravan and a B-double, who both had a full clear lane to give me room with, as well as the usual trades and mine vehicles.
It old easily be me you are reading about. I think we all get shaved regularly and feel that.

I am sorry as there appears to be some misunderstanding both ways, which says m post was poorly drafted - what I was clumsily attempting to show was how alcohol is likely to have contributed. It is not just about whether someone can drive in a straight line & even in your all too real scenario it can contribute in 2 ways - (1) the poor judgement of "it would be funny to terrify that cyclist with a close shave" & (2) the poor judgement of "I am 10 cm from that cyclist", oops not I wasn't.
Mulger bill wrote:
thecaptn wrote:While not wishing to take the focus away from the poor lady who was killed, it'l be interesting to see what penalty the queensland legal system gives the driver.

Based on recent history in QLD, a voucher to get his smokebox panel beaten and a written apology from the young ladies family?[/sarcasm]

I really, really want you to be wrong on this, as no doubt do you.
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby jules21 » Mon May 13, 2013 10:29 am

Ken Ho wrote:Blood alcohol was 0.076.
Legal limit used to be 0.08.
There is more at play than alcohol here. I sense an elbow shave gone wrong.

the "beauty" of him being over the BAL is that it curtails excuses for why he failed to safely overtake.

SMIDSY works well when you're sober - after all, "it could happen to any of us" and under no circumstances does a court want to hold "ordinary" motorists criminally accountable for their driving standards - but not so well when you're over the limit.

suddenly, SMIDSY looks like you weren't concentrating enough on the road, after a few drinks. you can't argue "no, your honour, it wasn't that at all! i was perfectly in control - in fact i was delibera... no wait, i can't say that."
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Re: Another fatality, Cairns today

Postby human909 » Mon May 13, 2013 1:11 pm

jules21 wrote:
Ken Ho wrote:Blood alcohol was 0.076.
Legal limit used to be 0.08.
There is more at play than alcohol here. I sense an elbow shave gone wrong.

the "beauty" of him being over the BAL is that it curtails excuses for why he failed to safely overtake.

SMIDSY works well when you're sober - after all, "it could happen to any of us" and under no circumstances does a court want to hold "ordinary" motorists criminally accountable for their driving standards - but not so well when you're over the limit.

suddenly, SMIDSY looks like you weren't concentrating enough on the road, after a few drinks. you can't argue "no, your honour, it wasn't that at all! i was perfectly in control - in fact i was delibera... no wait, i can't say that."


Which I see as a total imbalance of justice. The same often occurs even if cyclists aren't involved. Incompetent driving leading to death BAC<0.05 equals life continues as normal. Incompetent driving leading to death BAC>0.05 equals ten year prison sentence. :roll:

Personally I don't see it quite so black and white.
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