Cyclist killed in Townsville

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Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby AKO » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:21 pm

Just saw this on the news. It was a truck carrying a wide load. The driver decided that a narrow bridge was the best place to overtake a bunch ride. :cry: Another three in hospital with non life threatening injuries.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/lat ... lle-crash/
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:44 pm

Very unfortunate. :( not a whole lot else you can do about it. Getting cranky doesn't change the way tabloids stir up hatred against cyclists, nor how authorities have to be dragged along to the present because some crisis has occurred.

This tragedy is so needless.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby winstonw » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:15 pm

I hope this driver spends time in prison. I am sick of hearing drivers craap all over cyclists, like the gutless slobs they are, and think their view is shared by the majority.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:27 pm

:cry:
No sense charging him with anything that'll go before a jury.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby g-boaf » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:02 pm

The jury in QLD will find it was probably the fault of the cyclists. :(
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:39 am

Non life threatening injuries, still but still horrific as described to me by a close friend of the cyclists this evening. I am fairly certain that my parents know the Bell's as well and still live in Townsville. The accident happened directly over the fence from Mums place.
I will be watching this closely and encouraging the nation to do likewise. I will not let this go now that fault has fallen squarely at the feet of the driver so early on.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby The_Eggman » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:31 pm

Without wanting to prejudge the case (though it is close to home - I grew up in Tsv, and have ridden these roads) I think cycling really needs to address the perception issues with motorists ad the courts & police.

It is now to the point where a feeble defence gets people off the hook ("I thought I could squeeze through", and ""there was a boat parked nearyby " an even "I didn't see them").

I put this down to a key issue: I think most drivers (which includes court members & police) believe cyclists are fundamentally mad and massive risk takers. I know this because before I started riding I thought cycling in peakhour was madness - Roads were the domain of the car. We also see some cyclists flouting road rules - running lights, ignoring signs, etc. This adds to that perception of all cyclists being somewhat crazy even though there's only a small percentage who ride in this manner. As such being hit is more seen as a matter of time, and our own fault, rather than something that should be prosecuted

We need someone to go after this issue hard and turn this perception around. A meter matters is good, but perhaps a little gentle and soft to cut through.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby human909 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:55 pm

The_Eggman wrote:As such being hit is more seen as a matter of time, and our own fault, rather than something that should be prosecuted.


Precisely! There is a massive attitude problem and it has infiltrated our police and our courts. Cycling advocacy groups worth their salt need to address this.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby AKO » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:51 pm

Eggman pretty much nailed it. Before I took up cycling I used to try and guess what each cyclist had lost his license for. No one with half a brain would cycle if they could drive. There is definitely a perception among the public that we don't gelong on the roads. However It was refreshing to hear the Police spokesman on this case remind the public that cyclists have as much right to use the roads as anyone else and due to their vulnerability, extra care should be taken when interacting with cyclists.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby Ross » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:31 am

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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby The 2nd Womble » Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:03 pm

We've been told one of the cyclists involved is echoing SCA's calls for at least 1.5m to pass cyclists safely. How do we stop the nonsensical 1 metre message derailing the Qld Cycling Issues enquiry? It is being reported that 3ft(1m) laws in the US are having little or no impact. Either overtake safely - 1.5 to 2 metres - or don't overtake at all. If you don't, start expecting a jail sentance! Simple!
Now that this has happened in my hometown I'm even more fired up :evil:
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby The 2nd Womble » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:27 pm

If you live in Townsville, please sign:
http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/t ... e_petition
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby KonaCommuter » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:23 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:We've been told one of the cyclists involved is echoing SCA's calls for at least 1.5m to pass cyclists safely. How do we stop the nonsensical 1 metre message derailing the Qld Cycling Issues enquiry? It is being reported that 3ft(1m) laws in the US are having little or no impact. Either overtake safely - 1.5 to 2 metres - or don't overtake at all. If you don't, start expecting a jail sentance! Simple!
Now that this has happened in my hometown I'm even more fired up :evil:



I must confess I'm getting more than a little angry at the calls for 1 metre. Stop trying to dilute what looks like about to be achieved :x
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby Howzat » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:52 pm

KonaCommuter wrote:I must confess I'm getting more than a little angry at the calls for 1 metre. Stop trying to dilute what looks like about to be achieved :x

The "1m matters" message has been around for a while, it's not new.

Mixed numbers are not ideal, but also not the main problem. If either 1m or 1.5m is adopted into law, that's a step forward.

Making roads safer for cycling will involve scoring wins over the motoring lobby, not wins over rival cycling advocates.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby The 2nd Womble » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:08 pm

Howzat wrote:
KonaCommuter wrote:I must confess I'm getting more than a little angry at the calls for 1 metre. Stop trying to dilute what looks like about to be achieved :x

The "1m matters" message has been around for a while, it's not new.

Mixed numbers are not ideal, but also not the main problem. If either 1m or 1.5m is adopted into law, that's a step forward.

Making roads safer for cycling will involve scoring wins over the motoring lobby, not wins over rival cycling advocates.

Again mate, our politicians have resisted calls for a 1 metre law because they believe its less than our "law" currently provides. Even to the suits 1 metre is taking a step backwards.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby Xplora » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:54 pm

But our current laws don't provide S*&^, so how is it a backwards step?

eggman, you're offbase with the angle of your intent. Everyone must be forced to share the space. Using a car isn't a bloody excuse to switch your brain off. A lot of incredibly stupid crap gets done by drivers that deserves removal from the gene pool. Vehicle use is often frantic and childish, and needs to be addressed because that aggression and stupidity isn't directed at just bicycles. It's other cars, motos, pedestrians, CHILDREN.

We talk about European traffic utopias - the simple fact of the matter is that Australians need to get their crap together, or stop driving. I honestly dislike driving these days, because it just doesn't suit me anymore. It is only a convenience because of 2 children that I continue to drive. I want to be aggressive on the road. Riding at 40kmh instead of 20 isn't much more dangerous and it certainly redirects my energy. If you want to be a roadtwit, put your energy into something productive - you can't get rid of it behind the wheel.

It doesn't matter what the perception is in the general public. Cars kill. Trucks kill. Roads are for people, not engines. If you can't focus on the people, then you don't have a place in Australian society.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby high_tea » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:23 pm

Xplora wrote:But our current laws don't provide S*&^, so how is it a backwards step?


The argument I've heard (not, I hasten to add, from womble) is that 1m is not enough in some circumstances, so this law would have the effect of encouraging unsafe overtaking in those circumstances. Why the law wouldn't read "leave a distance of 1m or what is safe in the circumstances, whichever is greater" or words to that effect, I don't know. It doesn't seem like a particularly deep bit of legislative drafting.

Then there is the argument that it's not enough. Compared with an unsafe-overtaking law that is, as you point out, basically unenforced, it's debatable whether it's a backwards step.

I've watched this debate for a long time and have never seen any sensible argument to support the contention that it's actually a bad thing.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby The 2nd Womble » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:19 am

high_tea wrote:
Xplora wrote:But our current laws don't provide S*&^, so how is it a backwards step?


The argument I've heard (not, I hasten to add, from womble) is that 1m is not enough in some circumstances, so this law would have the effect of encouraging unsafe overtaking in those circumstances. Why the law wouldn't read "leave a distance of 1m or what is safe in the circumstances, whichever is greater" or words to that effect, I don't know. It doesn't seem like a particularly deep bit of legislative drafting.

Then there is the argument that it's not enough. Compared with an unsafe-overtaking law that is, as you point out, basically unenforced, it's debatable whether it's a backwards step.

I've watched this debate for a long time and have never seen any sensible argument to support the contention that it's actually a bad thing.

It's an 8 year debate. With 1.5 there was no debate. The law is suddenly being reviewed because our Pollies now see a worthwhile reason to advance.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby exadios » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:28 am

high_tea wrote:
The argument I've heard (not, I hasten to add, from womble) is that 1m is not enough in some circumstances, so this law would have the effect of encouraging unsafe overtaking in those circumstances. Why the law wouldn't read "leave a distance of 1m or what is safe in the circumstances, whichever is greater" or words to that effect, I don't know. It doesn't seem like a particularly deep bit of legislative drafting.

Then there is the argument that it's not enough. Compared with an unsafe-overtaking law that is, as you point out, basically unenforced, it's debatable whether it's a backwards step.

I've watched this debate for a long time and have never seen any sensible argument to support the contention that it's actually a bad thing.


What I do not understand, given the burden of proof, is how the supporters of either the 1 or 1.5 meter law expect it to operate.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby human909 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:45 am

In some ways I agree. In the requirement of "safe" overtaking is actually a HIGHER hurdle than 1.5m in the event of a incident.

The problem is judicial, police and community attitudes empathise with motorists.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby exadios » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:25 am

human909 wrote:In some ways I agree. In the requirement of "safe" overtaking is actually a HIGHER hurdle than 1.5m in the event of a incident.

The problem is judicial, police and community attitudes empathise with motorists.


There seems to be a community attitude problem. But I have seen no evidence of a police or judicial problem. I think that the community problem needs to be addressed. I just do not see how a fixed distance passing law will do that.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:07 pm

From http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2013/06/25/384256_news.html

"The reason we cycle together is because we're all about the same age and we're all very careful.
Police yesterday confirmed the riders were in single file when the crash occurred.
...
"I know we were riding safely. We all had lights. We were all single-file. I'm sure we were inside the white line and I'm sure the truck driver didn't mean to do it. It was an accident." He said it was vital motorists remembered how vulnerable cyclists were on the road and took care.


Assumingthe journo got it right re police confirmation and guessing that "within the while line" means on the shoulder and nt even on teh road then such an accident seems remarkable. What more can riders do other than not be on the road at all?
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby Ken Ho » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:57 am

Ironically, if they had been two abreast and/or occupying the lane, maybe the truck might have slowed, the lack of room being obvious.
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby The_Eggman » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:16 am

We're too damn polite for our own good. He should be utterly wild with the truckie, given what he outlined. Just an accident is not a good enough excuse.....
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Re: Cyclist killed in Townsville

Postby petie » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:50 pm

Well I reckon the 3 surviving cyclists should have made sure the truck driver was beaten to death at the scene. Life for a life and just punishment! :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:


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