Police in USA enforcing passing distance

AndrewBurns
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Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby AndrewBurns » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:47 am

http://ireader.olivesoftware.com/Olive/iReader/AustinAmericanStatesman/SharedArticle.ashx?document=AAS%5C2013%5C08%5C05&article=Ar02304

Shows that safe passing distances are definitely enforceable, even somewhere as traditionally bicycle unfriendly as the USA.
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r2160
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby r2160 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:03 am

awesome

just awesome!!

cheers
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TimW
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby TimW » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:15 am

AndrewBurns wrote:http://ireader.olivesoftware.com/Olive/iReader/AustinAmericanStatesman/SharedArticle.ashx?document=AAS%5C2013%5C08%5C05&article=Ar02304

Shows that safe passing distances are definitely enforceable, even somewhere as traditionally bicycle unfriendly as the USA.


That went into my "Virtual poolroom" straight onto the FB page :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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AndrewBurns
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby AndrewBurns » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:25 am

From the article, an F150 driver who gets pulled over for a close pass:

“It’s not that I wasn’t aware (of the 3-foot passing law), I just didn’t see them,” says Kirby Green.
SMIDSY! (this excuse should require the driver to re-pass their license vision inspection)

“When it’s not enough room, it’s going to be you or the cyclist.... I’ll share the road, but wish they’d be a little more careful.”
I wish cyclists would be a bit more careful when I pass illegally close to them! Also it's them or me on the road!
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familyguy
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby familyguy » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:08 am

Statesman website article, complete with usual comments:
http://www.statesman.com/news/lifestyle ... oad/nZCBS/

article wrote:Rheannon Cunningham tucks a radio into her backpack, turns up the volume on her ear buds, climbs onto a bicycle and heads into traffic.


<personal opinion> She lost me at the intro by doing this. </personal opinion> Despite that, good to see enforcement taking place.

Jim

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TimW
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby TimW » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:15 am

It's not a commercial radio, it's a Police Radio, for communication to and from the other officers, not to bop along to the latest tunes :roll: :roll: :roll:
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familyguy
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby familyguy » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:31 am

Ah. The commenters didn't pick up on that little wrinkle, either.

Jim

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exadios
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby exadios » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:11 am

AndrewBurns wrote:http://ireader.olivesoftware.com/Olive/iReader/AustinAmericanStatesman/SharedArticle.ashx?document=AAS%5C2013%5C08%5C05&article=Ar02304

Shows that safe passing distances are definitely enforceable, even somewhere as traditionally bicycle unfriendly as the USA.


There's no mention of a court case!

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TimW
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby TimW » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:58 am

familyguy wrote:Ah. The commenters didn't pick up on that little wrinkle, either.

Jim

If they didn't have the radio they would be forced into the English style of Policing ie "Stop or i will say stop again". :mrgreen:
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TimW
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby TimW » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:59 am

exadios wrote:
AndrewBurns wrote:http://ireader.olivesoftware.com/Olive/iReader/AustinAmericanStatesman/SharedArticle.ashx?document=AAS%5C2013%5C08%5C05&article=Ar02304

Shows that safe passing distances are definitely enforceable, even somewhere as traditionally bicycle unfriendly as the USA.


There's no mention of a court case!



If they pay the ticket there never is a court case, that goes for here as well.Tim
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KenGS
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby KenGS » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:43 pm

the officers say handing out a ticket is better than working an accident

Commendable attitude :D
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby g-boaf » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:19 pm

Awesome! Can we borrow these police and their enforcement abilities for Sydney?

Drivers would be a lot more careful around cyclists if they thought the cyclist ahead might be an undercover cop!

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exadios
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby exadios » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:42 pm

TimW wrote:
exadios wrote:
AndrewBurns wrote:http://ireader.olivesoftware.com/Olive/iReader/AustinAmericanStatesman/SharedArticle.ashx?document=AAS%5C2013%5C08%5C05&article=Ar02304

Shows that safe passing distances are definitely enforceable, even somewhere as traditionally bicycle unfriendly as the USA.


There's no mention of a court case!



If they pay the ticket there never is a court case, that goes for here as well.Tim


And if they decide to defend the case the law becomes unenforcable. That's the point.

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TimW
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby TimW » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:57 pm

Not if they lose.
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RonK
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby RonK » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:01 pm

exadios wrote:And if they decide to defend the case the law becomes unenforcable. That's the point.

Not so - the law is enforceable if in the opinion of the police officer an offence has been committed.

Once a ticket has been issued the offender has been found guilty, and to successfully defend the case must prove that no offence has been committed.

That is the way on the spot traffic fines work.
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby high_tea » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:18 pm

RonK wrote:
exadios wrote:And if they decide to defend the case the law becomes unenforcable. That's the point.

Not so - the law is enforceable if in the opinion of the police officer an offence has been committed.

Once a ticket has been issued the offender has been found guilty, and to successfully defend the case must prove that no offence has been committed.

That is the way on the spot traffic fines work.

(emphasis added)

The italicised bit is simply not correct. There is no statute law and no caselaw that even remotely supports this claim.

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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby human909 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:08 pm

high_tea wrote:The italicised bit is simply not correct. There is no statute law and no caselaw that even remotely supports this claim.


But there is reality! And that exists outside on caselaw and statute law! :wink:

Several times I have paid fines where no offence was committed. The costs and risks involved in challenging fine are too great to risk. Internal 'reviews' know this and unsurprising are not too keen to withdraw fines.
Last edited by human909 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RonK
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby RonK » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:20 pm

high_tea wrote:
RonK wrote:
exadios wrote:And if they decide to defend the case the law becomes unenforcable. That's the point.

Not so - the law is enforceable if in the opinion of the police officer an offence has been committed.

Once a ticket has been issued the offender has been found guilty, and to successfully defend the case must prove that no offence has been committed.

That is the way on the spot traffic fines work.

(emphasis added)

The italicised bit is simply not correct. There is no statute law and no caselaw that even remotely supports this claim.

You can quibble about the particular wording, but the fact remains that to defend such a case it will be the offenders word against the police officers opinion, and the police officers opinion will have to be proved wrong.

So when police officer plod says to the magistrate "in my opinion the defendant failed to overtake safely in that he came within 1 metre of the cyclist", what will be your defense? Whose testimony will the magistrate accept?
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby high_tea » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:50 pm

RonK wrote:
high_tea wrote:
RonK wrote:Not so - the law is enforceable if in the opinion of the police officer an offence has been committed.

Once a ticket has been issued the offender has been found guilty, and to successfully defend the case must prove that no offence has been committed.

That is the way on the spot traffic fines work.

(emphasis added)

The italicised bit is simply not correct. There is no statute law and no caselaw that even remotely supports this claim.

You can quibble about the particular wording, but the fact remains that to defend such a case it will be the offenders word against the police officers opinion, and the police officers opinion will have to be proved wrong.

So when police officer plod says to the magistrate "in my opinion the defendant failed to overtake safely in that he came within 1 metre of the cyclist", what will be your defense? Whose testimony will the magistrate accept?


I've heard of it working the other way - people court-electing and the prosecution not going ahead for want of evidence. The Crown is still put to proof. Your suggestion to the contrary is simply wrong. They get an awful lot of help with some offences(e.g. speeding) but they still have to make their case.

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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby high_tea » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:55 pm

human909 wrote:
high_tea wrote:The italicised bit is simply not correct. There is no statute law and no caselaw that even remotely supports this claim.


But there is reality! And that exists outside on caselaw and statute law! :wink:

Several times I have paid fines where no offence was committed. The costs and risks involved in challenging fine are too great to risk. Internal 'reviews' know this and unsurprising are not too keen to withdraw fines.


It's not surprising that it's more appealing to pay a fine than court-elect, but it's beside the point. If you do court-elect, the burden of proof is on the Crown.

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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby exadios » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:30 am

high_tea wrote:
RonK wrote:
exadios wrote:And if they decide to defend the case the law becomes unenforcable. That's the point.

Not so - the law is enforceable if in the opinion of the police officer an offence has been committed.

Once a ticket has been issued the offender has been found guilty, and to successfully defend the case must prove that no offence has been committed.

That is the way on the spot traffic fines work.

(emphasis added)

The italicised bit is simply not correct. There is no statute law and no caselaw that even remotely supports this claim.


Well, now I'm going to have to disagree with you. This was the case in the Soviet Union and is still the case in any self respecting police state. I will have to conceed that it has never been the case in Australia but I assume RonK wants to change that.

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exadios
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby exadios » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:53 am

human909 wrote:
high_tea wrote:The italicised bit is simply not correct. There is no statute law and no caselaw that even remotely supports this claim.


But there is reality! And that exists outside on caselaw and statute law! :wink:


Several times I have paid fines where no offence was committed. The costs and risks involved in challenging fine are too great to risk. Internal 'reviews' know this and unsurprising are not too keen to withdraw fines.


And so you want to extend the system so that drivers are fined where no offence has been committed. How will that make cyclists safer?

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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby RonK » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:31 am

high_tea wrote:
RonK wrote:
exadios wrote:And if they decide to defend the case the law becomes unenforcable. That's the point.

Not so - the law is enforceable if in the opinion of the police officer an offence has been committed.

Once a ticket has been issued the offender has been found guilty, and to successfully defend the case must prove that no offence has been committed.

That is the way on the spot traffic fines work.

(emphasis added)

The italicised bit is simply not correct. There is no statute law and no caselaw that even remotely supports this claim.

None? Then you need to read the traffic camera law, for example.
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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby high_tea » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:50 am

Please cite the exact bit of this statute that reverses the onus of proof. I'm aware of some deeming provisions, but that's a whole nother thing.

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Re: Police in USA enforcing passing distance

Postby cyclotaur » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:51 am

It's amazing how quickly an interesting threat can be made boring by bush lawyers and/or serial pedants .... :roll:

Re: the OP, the main upside to the on-road enforcement by patrolling police is to gradually change the culture of 'priority road-use entitlement' by drivers.
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