Right turning cars when passing to the left

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby Sepoy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:57 pm

I was involved in an accident today and I am trying to establish who was legally at fault.
I was riding in a lane occupied by parked cars to the left of a lane filled with congested traffic. Another car travelling in the opposite direction made a right turn in to a driveway front of me (through a gap in the traffic) and I collided with his side door. I know that when passing to the left of slow traffic cyclists must make way for cars turning left, but cannot find any information about this circumstance.
The police said they thought I might be at fault, but were not sure and said that there was "no rush" for me to get in contact with them once it was established that I had no major injuries.

Any ideas which party is liable?
Trek 1.7 2009
Cell MTX-O 2010
User avatar
Sepoy
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:26 pm

by BNA » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:05 pm

BNA
 

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby mick243 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:05 pm

The other driver is at fault, as they are turning across traffic lanes that they *MUST* give way to.

They would seem to be guilty of failing to give way, and driving without due care.
mick243
 
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:44 am

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby Sepoy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:06 pm

Yeeesh, just got off the phone with the police and they are claiming I have no right to cycle past parked cars and if they go ahead with investigating it I will be fined. He has asked me to provide him with legislation that says I can ride on the left. Pretty shocked this is how the police operate.
Trek 1.7 2009
Cell MTX-O 2010
User avatar
Sepoy
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby il padrone » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:33 pm

Sepoy wrote:The police said they thought I might be at fault,

Not a chance. Those coppers are revealing their ignorance. A right turning vehicle is required to give way to all oncoming traffic. If they cannot see all lanes clearly they must stop!. This includes cyclists passing to the left of a line of traffic - there is a specific exemption in the road rules that allows cyclists to do this. It does not require us to give way to right-turners.

Rule 141 in Victoria

Victorian Road Rules wrote:141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle
(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle


Don't let anyone spin this furphy on you.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19586
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby Sepoy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:08 pm

In NSW the legislation says

141 No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle

(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless:
(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the left of the vehicle, or
(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle, or
(c) the vehicle is stationary and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle.

I contacted the officer with this and he claimed that it still does not give me a right to ride in the same lane as parked cars. He said it would only apply if I had been riding on the extreme left side of the left lane. The officer also tried to tell me that witnesses said that I was not wearing a helmet despite the fact that both they and the EMT on the scene confirmed to me verbally at the time that I had.

He has given me the contact details of the driver and has said that they will not be pursing action against anyone. He suggested that we sort it out amongst our insurance companies.
Trek 1.7 2009
Cell MTX-O 2010
User avatar
Sepoy
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby il padrone » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:51 pm

That police officer obviously has a big chip on his shoulder about cyclists. Many do - they are just people after all, and often not too bright on the law. I'd be putting in a big fat complaint to his superiors about such actions (or rather lack-of).

1. You may overtake in any lane, together with cars, subject to there being room to do so safely (drivers try to do this with cyclists all the time);
2. There has been a collision, apparently with damage (and injury?). Police attendance is required and a statement would normally be involved. You will get nowhere with insurance claims without a police statement; and
3. No action "Please give me the name of your supervising officer". Take it to the next level - if there is sufficient damage/injuries to warrant the effort.
Plenty of people on here have got action, especially when the letter goes to the Assistant Commissioner.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19586
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby Sepoy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:01 pm

il padrone wrote:That pokice officer obviously has a big chip on his shoulder about cyclists. I'd be putting in a big fat complaint to his superiors about such actions (or rather lack-of).

1. You may overtake in any lane, together with cars, subject to there being room to do so safely (drivers try to do this with cyclists all the time;
2. There has been a collision, apparently with damage (and injury?). Police attendance is required and a statement would normally be involved. You will get nowhere with insurance claims without a police statement
3. No action "Please give me the name of your supervising officer". Take it to the next level - if there is sufficient damage/injuries to warrant the effort.
Plenty of people on here have got action, especially when the letter goes to the Assistant Commissioner.


I was taken away by an ambulance and the police took a statement, but I was lucky enough to avoid any serious damage. My bike is pretty buggered and this is what I am concerned about. The officer who called me was a different one to the ones who took my statement. Also, the officer did get quite agitated and combative in the second call.
I will make a follow up call tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice, it is pretty intimidating trying to argue legislation with a police officer.
Trek 1.7 2009
Cell MTX-O 2010
User avatar
Sepoy
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby il padrone » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:08 pm

Don't argue with cretins because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Much better to put all details down on paper and send the letter, to the superior officer. Once it is on paper they have to take action.



BTW - re the helmet allegations. How does the presence or absence of a helmet have any relevance to the actions of the driver and the damage to your bicycle??

Tosser he is!! :evil: Pfft!
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19586
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby Sepoy » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:27 pm

il padrone wrote:BTW - re the helmet allegations. How does the presence or absence of a helmet have any relevance to the actions of the driver and the damage to your bicycle??

Tosser he is!! :evil: Pfft!


Yup, he was clearly trying to scare me into not pursuing the matter any further.
Trek 1.7 2009
Cell MTX-O 2010
User avatar
Sepoy
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby human909 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:38 pm

Il Padrone's replies are on the money. The police are idiots. Parked cars on the road/lane doesn't change the fact that it still is a road/lane. You are still completely in your right to ride or driver there. The driver is at fault. The driver should receive a fine but you are clearly dealing with cops who don't know the law and/or are biased against cyclists. Raise the matter with their superiors..

Regarding getting your bike fixed, you need send a letter of demand to the driver regarding compensation. There are various pro-formas around. A police report in your favour will make things much easier.
human909
 
Posts: 5268
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 am

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby Sepoy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:35 pm

Hey all. I have had further correspondence with a different officer, who is claiming that because there was no injuries, no one left the scene and a car was not towed it is a civil matter and not a police concern.
Trek 1.7 2009
Cell MTX-O 2010
User avatar
Sepoy
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby il padrone » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:45 pm

*Cough* :shock:

So breaking road rules and causing a collision with property damage does not matter?? Does your local state bicycle group have any teeth that you could apply to this officer's a*#$e ??

"Can I please speak to your supervising officer?"
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 19586
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby human909 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:23 am

Sepoy wrote:Hey all. I have had further correspondence with a different officer, who is claiming that because there was no injuries, no one left the scene and a car was not towed it is a civil matter and not a police concern.


I'll make sure I remember to tell the cops that if I get pulled over for speeding. :roll: That is a standard response for police choosing to not get involved with traffic incidents. They are stone walling and you wont get far. If you really do want a police report then do report the injuries you did sustain. You did get a bruise, a graze?

il padrone wrote:So breaking road rules and causing a collision with property damage does not matter??

No it doesn't as far as the police are generally concerned. Too many bingles in the motoring world to waste police time.


My advice. Make a formal complaint about the treatment you have received or let is slide and simply follow up the civil claim. Ultimately if you want reimbursement for your bike, you need to take that path regardless.
human909
 
Posts: 5268
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:48 am

Re: Right turning cars when passing to the left

Postby diventare » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:37 pm

il padrone wrote:Don't argue with cretins because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. .....


Quote of the month!

So very true; especially where a blue uniform is worn
Image
diventare
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:41 am


Return to Cycling Safety and Advocacy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit