New bike lane fail

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New bike lane fail

Postby Tomca74 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:44 pm

Developers down the road from my place put a new round about onto an existing road. It is quite a wide road and they have narrowed the road leading into the round about from both directions and put a half attempt of a bike lane into the narrowed lane.

The problem I now face is cars getting agro about me claiming the lane through the round about and not using the "bike lane" but it is way to narrow to ride the kerb while cars negotiate the round about. Would it be worth having a whinge to the council about it before the developer finishes the subdivision and hands over the estate?

Here is what it used to look like

https://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&l ... 68,,0,-0.6

I have attached a video of the design heading north.


Ignore the time stamp, I haven't bothered to set it.
Last edited by Mulger bill on Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: embedded video
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by BNA » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:09 pm

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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby trailgumby » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:09 pm

That is one of the dumbest bike lanes I have seen.

Get a can of red spraypaint and do this over the bike symbols:

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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby Tomca74 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:25 pm

the one going in the other direction is worse. You have nearly 2/3 of the round about to go around. Clueless motorist and this design do not go well together.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby biker jk » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:48 pm

That bike lane is designed by a moron. You are correct in that it's setting you up to be severely injured or killed. I was driving back from Canberra today and noticed that at a roundabout they had constructed an off road cycle path which started before it and then rejoined the road. This is how it should be done.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby ironhanglider » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:03 pm

That works well when the lane doesn't cross any other roads.

A recent trend in Canberra has the same idea but with the path then crossing a road at right angles with an obligation to give way to traffic approaching from behind (to turn left) the drivers of which are looking out of their right side windows. Any error in judgement, or mechanical failure puts a cyclist squarely in front of a car that is likely to be accelerating and not in a good position to react.

I'd much rather that they just put the bike symbols squarely in the middle of the lane leading up to the intersection.

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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby cyclotaur » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:36 pm

Just keep claiming the lane - do a quick head check, stick your right arm out early and get in there. Traffic will pretty soon get the idea.

A bike clears a roundabout like that very quickly.


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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby il padrone » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:53 pm

How to do a great roundabout :wink: :P

Image




But more seriously, here's how the Dutch do it on the roads and paths where cyclists are given PRIORITY when crosing all the connecting roads.

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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:17 pm

Nope, no way, no how, not this time, next time or EVER. Sod the "bikelane". Own the road. Better they mutter or horn than stand over your broken body telling the ambos "I thought I had enough room'.

trailgumby wrote:Get a can of red spraypaint and do this over the bike symbols:

Image

This!
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby RobertFrith » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:24 am

It is truly bizarre that painted bike lanes almost always evaporate at the point they're most needed!
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby human909 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:27 am

I don't know what you guys are going on about. There is green paint used so it must be safe. :roll:

:evil:
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby simonn » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:16 am

We have some similar-ish near us, but the cycle lane merges before the roundabout - about 3 meters before. There is also a similar one on my commute without a proper merge.

I indicate as if I am turning right, about 5+ car lengths before and merge out. Once I have merged I drop the right arm and continue straight :).
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby zero » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:25 pm

RobertFrith wrote:It is truly bizarre that painted bike lanes almost always evaporate at the point they're most needed!


Side lanes have little or no safety benefit and they have seriously negative safety repercussions within a roundabout.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby human909 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:31 pm

zero wrote:Side lanes have little or no safety benefit and they have seriously negative safety repercussions within a roundabout.


It's quite sad that traffic engineers don't know this and continue to design roundabouts in this way.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby Diamond1 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:05 pm

Tomca74 wrote:Developers down the road from my place put a new round about onto an existing road. It is quite a wide road and they have narrowed the road leading into the round about from both directions and put a half attempt of a bike lane into the narrowed lane.


It is intentionally narrowed like that via the blister kerbs so that the roundabout sufficiently deflects and slows down traffic, of all modes.

Tomca74 wrote:it is way to narrow to ride the kerb while cars negotiate the round about. Would it be worth having a whinge to the council about it before the developer finishes the subdivision and hands over the estate?


It does appear that way. I suppose if you were going slower you could navigate around the roundabout closer to the kerb although that is less than optimal.

If the road was widened to incorporate a full bicycle lane through the roundabout then from a design perspective, sufficient deflection probably wasn't met and cars would have been able to proceed straight through without slowing down (not an option). The primary role of a roundabout is to slow down traffic which this one appears to do from your video.

You could certainly raise your concerns with Council (preferably in writing) although given their traffic engineer(s) would have approved the roundabout prior to its construction and it appears to be fully constructed now, I can't see much being done. My guess would be that at best Council will remove the 'bicycle lane' (signs & linemarking).

Personally I would ride in the centre of the lane also.

biker jk wrote:That bike lane is designed by a moron. You are correct in that it's setting you up to be severely injured or killed. I was driving back from Canberra today and noticed that at a roundabout they had constructed an off road cycle path which started before it and then rejoined the road. This is how it should be done.


That wouldn't appear to be a realistic option now for that site in the video due to the location of driveway crossover when approaching the roundabout.

If I designed that roundabout I wouldn't have included that bike lane at all. My guess would be that the developers and design consultants didn't want it either although it was strongly 'recommended' by Council etc as part of the consultative approval process...
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby DavidS » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:16 pm

Yep, best option is to get the supposed bike lane removed. Not enough room for a bike and a car therefore the bike lane is a hazard.

The other thing about roundabouts is that bikes tend to be much quicker through a roundabout, so, no need to restrict bikes to a narrow bike lane.

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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby il padrone » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:14 pm

Better to restrict the roundabout entry for longer out, and use a paving change (flat pavers?), to indicate a different speed desirability. Make it clear the bike lane ends and cyclists merge.... and that drivers need to slow and allow space for cyclists. Take the 'shared space' approach.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby neild » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:28 am

Darebin here in Melbourne is doing some good things in regards to roundabouts and bike lanes (and bike use in general). On one of my routes along Dundas St in Preston, there is a marked bike lane and as it approaches the roundabout rather than tapering out or having a dashed line meaning to give way, it's just open ended and they then have a bike symbol with chevrons in the middle of the road. This is both approaching the roundabout and within the roundabout. This indicates to both cyclists and motorists that bikes should, and have the right to claim the lane. Doesn't stop the occasional toot though.

I've had a look on Google streetview but it's too old to show. I'll see if I can find an example somewhere else.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby human909 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:13 am

neild wrote:it's just open ended and they then have a bike symbol with chevrons in the middle of the road.


They are called sharrows. They are meant to tell motorists that it is a shared lane and to expect bikes. I think they are great, they have been used quite effectively in the US. City of Yarra have been rolling them out in quite a few places too.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby neild » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:41 am

That's right. I couldn't remember exactly what they were called.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:51 pm

human909 wrote:
neild wrote:it's just open ended and they then have a bike symbol with chevrons in the middle of the road.


They are called sharrows. They are meant to tell motorists that it is a shared lane and to expect bikes. I think they are great, they have been used quite effectively in the US. City of Yarra have been rolling them out in quite a few places too.


I love sharrows. They should be used to replace BAZ's. Said as much in my submission to the qld parliamentary inquiry.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby il padrone » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:14 pm

neild wrote:I've had a look on Google streetview but it's too old to show. I'll see if I can find an example somewhere else.

Something like this set-up along Pigdon Street??

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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby il padrone » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:18 pm

Another unique Dutch roundabout solution from Zwolle.

8)



Observe the driver behaviour in the roundabout. Dutch law is very clear - drivers must give way to all cyclists on the intersecting bike paths....... and it does not really slow the traffic flow too much. Good flow, safe riding, just requires drivers to give a damn!
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby human909 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:30 am

il padrone wrote:Observe the driver behaviour in the roundabout. Dutch law is very clear - drivers must give way to all cyclists on the intersecting bike paths....... and it does not really slow the traffic flow too much. Good flow, safe riding, just requires drivers to give a damn!


What I found extremely confronting about that video is the confidence the Dutch cyclists had about riding in the path of a moving car! No way would you have that kind of trust in an Australian driver!

I has been too long since I've been there.... I need to head back soon.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby Xplora » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:46 am

Quick link to the 1.5m passing rule petition.

This bike lane clearly demonstrates that a car is able to pass a bike with about 1 foot of space, at speed, through a tight cornering situation. If this lane is remotely safe, or useful, it proves that cars are capable of far more spatial traffic awareness than they are currently given credit for. The speed limit would be 50kmh, there is no way they could even get through that roundabout with a cyclist pulled up in the bike lane and moving forward.

I would NEVER use that bike lane as painted, because it is clear that drivers are not capable of sharing the road. As a cyclist, you MUST MUST MUST force them to share on your terms, because they aren't going to hospital. You will be.
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Re: New bike lane fail

Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:10 pm

il padrone wrote:Another unique Dutch roundabout solution from Zwolle.

8)



Observe the driver behaviour in the roundabout. Dutch law is very clear - drivers must give way to all cyclists on the intersecting bike paths....... and it does not really slow the traffic flow too much. Good flow, safe riding, just requires drivers to give a damn!


That is brilliant. If only it were done like that here. It would make things a heck of a lot safer.

Here, you have to second guess every motor-vehicle driver, is that person going to try and run over me, will they leave me enough room, etc.
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