AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

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AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:22 am

Apparently AM this morning is running a piece on the great dangers of riding a bike. WTH are they on about? I won't be able to listen but would love to know the context.
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by BNA » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:36 am

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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby g-boaf » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:36 am

Yeah, I agree it is disturbingly dangerous. Especially when you don't see brown things that slither along in front of you on the ground. :shock:

That was my dangerous encounter yesterday. :shock: I should have remembered about that snake since I've seen it before. Too close, way too close.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby rustychisel » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:35 am

trivial, ignorant, the usual suspects.

"cyclists must wear high viz lada da"

you could argue they had some balance, but really, AM should do better
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby Aushiker » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:41 am

The transcript will be available online later today

The headline for the story is "NSW cyclist deaths double in 2013" ...Maybe listen to it before jumping to conclusions ... http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2013/s3890562.htm

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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby g-boaf » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:29 am

The transcript says it all. I quote from it:

MARG PRENDERGAST: Cyclists need to ride predictably. They need to have high visibility.


Okay, so you ride predictably and take the lane early to be highly visible and predictable heading up to junctions. And then someone in a car or truck behind you tries to run you down for doing it.

Okay Marg Prendergast, what do you say to that? I suppose you say we should "share the road", ie, ride in the gutter where we can be killed so we don't cost your motorvehicle driving friends 5 seconds on their precious journey?

Just the way that statement was made seems to apportion more blame to cyclists than to drivers, with the throwaway line at the end almost as an afterthought to avoid being seen as biased.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby simonn » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:38 am

Out of the "three cyclists", one there was no motor vehicle involved and another was the cyclists fault.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby queequeg » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:03 pm

simonn wrote:Out of the "three cyclists", one there was no motor vehicle involved and another was the cyclists fault.


...and all three had helmets on.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby nezumi » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:37 pm

I emailed the program to point out a few items that it is worth raising in issues of cycling danger.

1. The study showing 80% of collisions between motor vehicles and bicycles are the fault of the driver.
2. The study showing car drivers don't look for cyclists - they scan for other cars.
3. The push to mandate a minimum safe passing distance, as cars will pass too closely out of either ignorance or malice.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:44 pm

And isn't it a shame on society that the majority of "The Disturbing Dangers Of Riding A Pushbike" are from extraneous sources?

Not just talking tramtracks on a frosty morning here :(
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby biker jk » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:55 pm

nezumi wrote:I emailed the program to point out a few items that it is worth raising in issues of cycling danger.

1. The study showing 80% of collisions between motor vehicles and bicycles are the fault of the driver.
2. The study showing car drivers don't look for cyclists - they scan for other cars.
3. The push to mandate a minimum safe passing distance, as cars will pass too closely out of either ignorance or malice.


Well done for doing this. :) We as cyclists often remain silent when the media gets it wrong.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby simonn » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:33 pm

g-boaf wrote:The transcript says it all. I quote from it:

MARG PRENDERGAST: Cyclists need to ride predictably. They need to have high visibility.


Okay, so you ride predictably and take the lane early to be highly visible and predictable heading up to junctions. And then someone in a car or truck behind you tries to run you down for doing it.

Okay Marg Prendergast, what do you say to that? I suppose you say we should "share the road", ie, ride in the gutter where we can be killed so we don't cost your motorvehicle driving friends 5 seconds on their precious journey?

Just the way that statement was made seems to apportion more blame to cyclists than to drivers, with the throwaway line at the end almost as an afterthought to avoid being seen as biased.


That's your interpretation. I interpret it as "Cyclists should ride big and drivers need to leave the space to do so."
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby il padrone » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:41 pm

simonn wrote:That's your interpretation. I interpret it as "Cyclists should ride big and drivers need to leave the space to do so."

+1
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby The 2nd Womble » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:00 pm

il padrone wrote:
simonn wrote:That's your interpretation. I interpret it as "Cyclists should ride big and drivers need to leave the space to do so."

+1

As far as I know she has never spoken about cyclists riding big. Ever. She has spoken previously about the need for cyclists to wear hivis. I'm happy to intetpret it this way.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby Aushiker » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:08 pm

JAN GARRARD: I think for a long time our road safety strategy has made great improvements for motor vehicle occupants and it's focused on improving the safety of motor vehicle occupants. We now have to think, okay, how can we do a lot more to promote the safety of people that are not strapped in with airbags and collapsible things inside their cars that don't hurt them and all the things that protect drivers. We have to think outside the car.


This is a far more important point in my view than the comment by Marg PRENDERGAST. This is a critical issue picked up by AA Australia today (see their press release). Road deaths for motorists are trending down at around 3.6% per year whereas for cyclists it is increasing at 3.3% a year (Australia wide figures) [1]. The road safety strategy is only working for one group of users; this needs to change.

[1] http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/on ... ct2013.pdf

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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby winstonw » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:38 pm

nezumi wrote:I emailed the program to point out a few items that it is worth raising in issues of cycling danger.

1. The study showing 80% of collisions between motor vehicles and bicycles are the fault of the driver.
2. The study showing car drivers don't look for cyclists - they scan for other cars.
3. The push to mandate a minimum safe passing distance, as cars will pass too closely out of either ignorance or malice.


right on the money. good on you.

meanwhile, I get the impression the AM story was determined by a committee.
Committee Member A: "do you think if we highlight motorists cause most deaths, it will do more to deter people from taking up cycling?"
Committee Member B: "yes I think that's a fair risk. Let's just keep it calm and collected, and highlight that after all, it is the cyclists who consciously determine to take the higher risk, not the drivers.....so let's focus on what the cyclists can do to minimize the chances of being run over"
Insignificant Committee Tea Lady (who cycles): "but there was no evidence the 15 people killed in NSW this year were not highly visible or riding predictably"
CM A: "never mind about that Doris. There's a lot of highly paid very important and expert people here, who have better insight into these things!"

BTW, Jan Garrard consistently impresses me....though I wonder what she said about motorist responsibility that was left on the editing room floor.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:12 pm

I knew I was right here:
http://mobile.news.com.au/national/deat ... 6760958780
"At the Centre for Road Safety in Sydney, Marg Prendergast is preparing for a massive radio advertising blitz of a safety campaign which may become a national push for improved road rules.

"Two things have to happen," she said.

"Drivers need to look out and acknowledge cyclists, particularly when they are making turns.

"Cyclists have to obey road rules, stop at red lights, ride predictably, wear clothes that increase their visibility.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby winstonw » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:13 pm

It's about time the traffic authorities acknowledge a very large % of traffic lights are not triggered by bicycles.....or motorbikes....as happened to me at the T junction of Ashgrove Av and Waterworks Rd last weekend. After a long time passed, the Motorider turned to me and said looks like neither of us triggered the light, and he was going through. I did the same.

If authorities want to have simplistic either/or rules, then let them put in simplistic infrastructure that backs such rules.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:32 pm

winstonw wrote:It's about time the traffic authorities acknowledge a very large % of traffic lights are not triggered by bicycles.....or motorbikes....as happened to me at the T junction of Ashgrove Av and Waterworks Rd last weekend. After a long time passed, the Motorider turned to me and said looks like neither of us triggered the light, and he was going through. I did the same.

If authorities want to have simplistic either/or rules, then let them put in simplistic infrastructure that backs such rules.


I hear this but I never found it to be common when I rode years ago.

However I DID have a little understanding (mostly ride along the strips, not between two parallel ones. And I always knew to look for the slice-marks in the road where the strips were buried.

I expect that most such exposed cuts were covered over years ago with fresh hot mix. However they now add an extra strip so that obviates that problem a lot.

I wonder if all the plastic bikes are less able to register.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby Xplora » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:59 pm

I was just having a think about this, and the serious cycling accidents seem to involve "serious cyclists" who have the helmet on, running with the traffic, behaving like a vehicle.

The seriously nonserious cyclists (POBSOs, people riding helmetless on the footpath, others you wonder if they stole the bike, people riding in poor suburbs) don't feature in the statistics, or the anecdotal evidence, at all. The comments made by Prendergast are completely off the money, because the cyclists who DO behave the way she wants are the ones getting splattered. The Optus guy in northern Sydney was doing everything right except a touch too fast for the conditions (and let's face it, this happens to everyone, he was very very unfortunate).

POBSOs just don't have these issues because riding isn't dangerous. They don't interact with the road at all. Oblivious drivers are dangerous, and riding carries a bigger penalty for failure when a car makes a mistake.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby human909 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:37 pm

Xplora wrote:I was just having a think about this, and the serious cycling accidents seem to involve "serious cyclists" who have the helmet on, running with the traffic, behaving like a vehicle.

The seriously nonserious cyclists (POBSOs, people riding helmetless on the footpath, others you wonder if they stole the bike, people riding in poor suburbs) don't feature in the statistics, or the anecdotal evidence, at all. The comments made by Prendergast are completely off the money, because the cyclists who DO behave the way she wants are the ones getting splattered.


I agree. If you look at the most of the cycling deaths they have little to do with cyclists disobeying laws. All the complaints about cyclists breaking laws is largely a red herring regarding cyclist safety.


Xplora wrote:The Optus guy in northern Sydney was doing everything right except a touch too fast for the conditions (and let's face it, this happens to everyone, he was very very unfortunate).


Doing the little things "right" won't keep you safe if you are doing the big things wrong. There is nothing to suggest that this guy was a safer cyclist than a helmet-less guy riding on the footpath. Excessive speed is one of the biggest killers on our road there really is only one person to be held responsible here. From what I have seen excessive speed and poor bike control is more common than it should be amongst "serious cyclists".

The frequency of bike-on-bike incidents on beach road on Saturdays is disappointing IMO.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby winstonw » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:04 pm

The majority of close calls I've had come from drivers accidentally or not, misjudging how close they are from me when passing from behind.
The 2nd most common is drivers accidentally or not, not seeing me (as in pulling out from a side street in front of me, doing a right hand turn across my path.)
The 3rd most common is drivers overtly driving aggressively and breaking rules of the road, as in cutting corners.
The 4th most common is drivers heading in same direction, overtaking, then cutting across my path to do a left hand turn into a side street or petrol station....obviously not appreciating my speed, which is rarely fast in such incidences.
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby jasonc » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:09 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:I wonder if all the plastic bikes are less able to register.


I have more problems activating lights on my roadie (carbon) than I do on my flatbar (alloy)
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Re: AM: The disturbing dangers of riding a pushbike

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:36 pm

jasonc wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:I wonder if all the plastic bikes are less able to register.


I have more problems activating lights on my roadie (carbon) than I do on my flatbar (alloy)

Which is what you would expect if the sensors work on a changing inductance - which is what I understand is the most common technology. Move a chunk of iron next to an inductance coil and it affects the rate of flow of current for a short period (which can serve as the trigger to relevant circuitry). Other materials like flesh and blood and plastic affect it less. The less mass of a metal bike also has a lesser effect than a motor vehicle.
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