Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

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InTheWoods
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby InTheWoods » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:28 pm

WarbyD wrote:The motorist made a series of stupid mistakes for which they need to be penalised appropriately.


While I agree with most of what has been written, tailgating somebody is not a "mistake". It is a deliberate choice and act. If the driver had chosen to leave a safe distance to the vulnerable person in front of her, the incident (if it was not an intentional hit) wouldn't have happened. Given the driver had been jumping the queue down the left according to locals who know the road, I'd say there was a lot of impatience involved.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby WarbyD » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:40 pm

I don't dispute any of that, so let's just accept that we're mostly on the same page rather than debating what consitutes a "mistake" ;)

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby spacehopper » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:43 pm

I find it difficult to believe that anyone would maliciously run down another person like that, so I will assume negligence.

Having said that, the driving behaviour,was so poor that the resulting outcome was not only foreseeable but almost a foregone conclusion and I can't see any rational basis upon which the driver can avoid a conviction.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby biker jk » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:25 pm

WarbyD wrote:I don't dispute any of that, so let's just accept that we're mostly on the same page rather than debating what consitutes a "mistake" ;)


"Mistake", "accident". :roll: SMIDSY. Well in that case why fine the driver at all! No one is perfect.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby clydesmcdale » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:04 pm

Having seen the video, ridden that section of road many times and been contacted from family and friends to see if was me (Mt Gravatt local), I’m willing to bet the house this was an act of aggression towards the cyclist.

As others have said, the left lane merges right and going up the left lane may be considered a ‘queue jump’ before being required to merge over. Seeing it for the first time I first thought it was negligence on behalf of the driver, looking right for a gap and not accounting for the cyclist’s pace in front and accidently clipping them.

However, the more I replayed it and put myself in the driver’s spot, the only way the cyclist didn’t end up 100% under the car is if the driver applied the brakes almost instantaneously with the impact. To me, this suggests the driver was looking directly at the cyclist and using the car to intimidate him with his car by getting close. When the impact occurred, seeing that the cyclist was going down, the driver must have immediately jumped on the brakes.

Further role playing, if I was looking over my shoulder to the right looking for a gap and then I hit something it would take me significantly longer to apply my brakes after hearing or feeling a collision. This would have resulted in the rider being fully run over and not just bumped off the front of the car.

I suggest they knew what they were doing and just overcooked their intimidation taking down the rider.

Unfortunately it’ll just be way too easy for the driver to say they were looking away and didn’t account for the rider, before accidentally clipping them. Nothing more will happen other than a traffic infringement for maybe following too closely or some other unfathomable offence.

TLDR – it was on purpose

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby exadios » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:04 pm

biker jk wrote:
I understood your point which is why I said "there's no excuse". Go to MM where a few posters are making excuses for the motorist.


What's 'MM'?

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby m@ » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:39 pm

exadios wrote:
biker jk wrote:
I understood your point which is why I said "there's no excuse". Go to MM where a few posters are making excuses for the motorist.


What's 'MM'?

This topic: Moron Motorists #3 :)
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby trailgumby » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:05 pm

Have to agree with ClydesMcDale. If it was unintentional the rider would have been run over.

It takes 0.4 seconds for the nerve impulse to travel from brain to foot. Add foot travel time from throttle to brake and then hazard perception time to interpret the situation and make the decision to brake on top of that and the answer can only be that the driver saw the impending situation and had the foot staged on the brake already at the moment of collision.

The driver has some pretty serious questions to answer.



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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:25 pm

WarbyD wrote:The motorist made a series of stupid mistakes for which they need to be penalised appropriately, but likening this to attempted murder is silly.

....one of which was letting the car get a touch too close in their intimidatory driving (I'd be certain that this behaviour was deliberate), or maybe they even deliberately intended to nudge the cyclist.... but just did not realise that the bike would be thrown up and over like it did. "Doesn't happen when I tail-gate and 'touch' a car :oops: "
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby warnsey1 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:35 pm

Accidents are called exactly that for a reason. Rear-enders are the most common type of accident. As cyclists we accept that while we have a right to be on the roads, we are less protected than those in a car. Sure the driver should of been further back, paying more attention and I'm sure a host of other things, however the same could be said for 99% of all accidents.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby trailgumby » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:13 pm

No, they're called that when they're unforeseeable.

This is anything but that.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby biker jk » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:30 pm

trailgumby wrote:No, they're called that when they're unforeseeable.

This is anything but that.

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+1 I'm amazed how many on this forum don't know the meaning of the word "accident".

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:39 pm

There is a bit more to the definition than people seem to be implying. Unforeseen event, yes, but another version is an event that was not intentional. So if you say it was not an accident you may be suggesting there was deliberate intent.

accident — n

1. an unforeseen event or one without an apparent cause

2. anything that occurs unintentionally or by chance; chance; fortune: I met him by accident

3. a misfortune or mishap, esp one causing injury or death
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby HiChris » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:42 pm

Too close, too fast, not paying attention or deliberate.

Or all of the above.

A few years back I was rear ended by a bus on my motorcycle, cops came to interview me in the ICU, must have been the morphine that was making me happy, when the cops asked me what I thought I replied "just an accident", cops reply was exactly "too close, too fast, not paying attention or deliberate" driver was charged and lost his license.

This driver MUST be charged.
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby Carrots » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:00 pm

clydesmcdale wrote:Having seen the video, ridden that section of road many times and been contacted from family and friends to see if was me (Mt Gravatt local), I’m willing to bet the house this was an act of aggression towards the cyclist.

As others have said, the left lane merges right and going up the left lane may be considered a ‘queue jump’ before being required to merge over. Seeing it for the first time I first thought it was negligence on behalf of the driver, looking right for a gap and not accounting for the cyclist’s pace in front and accidently clipping them.

However, the more I replayed it and put myself in the driver’s spot, the only way the cyclist didn’t end up 100% under the car is if the driver applied the brakes almost instantaneously with the impact. To me, this suggests the driver was looking directly at the cyclist and using the car to intimidate him with his car by getting close. When the impact occurred, seeing that the cyclist was going down, the driver must have immediately jumped on the brakes.

Further role playing, if I was looking over my shoulder to the right looking for a gap and then I hit something it would take me significantly longer to apply my brakes after hearing or feeling a collision. This would have resulted in the rider being fully run over and not just bumped off the front of the car.

I suggest they knew what they were doing and just overcooked their intimidation taking down the rider.

Unfortunately it’ll just be way too easy for the driver to say they were looking away and didn’t account for the rider, before accidentally clipping them. Nothing more will happen other than a traffic infringement for maybe following too closely or some other unfathomable offence.

TLDR – it was on purpose


That assumes the driver hasn't looked back just prior to hitting the cyclist.

Either way, it doesn't excuse impatient driving nor stupidity.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:27 am

Carrots wrote:
clydesmcdale wrote:Having seen the video, ridden that section of road many times and been contacted from family and friends to see if was me (Mt Gravatt local), I’m willing to bet the house this was an act of aggression towards the cyclist.

As others have said, the left lane merges right and going up the left lane may be considered a ‘queue jump’ before being required to merge over. Seeing it for the first time I first thought it was negligence on behalf of the driver, looking right for a gap and not accounting for the cyclist’s pace in front and accidently clipping them.

However, the more I replayed it and put myself in the driver’s spot, the only way the cyclist didn’t end up 100% under the car is if the driver applied the brakes almost instantaneously with the impact. To me, this suggests the driver was looking directly at the cyclist and using the car to intimidate him with his car by getting close. When the impact occurred, seeing that the cyclist was going down, the driver must have immediately jumped on the brakes.

Further role playing, if I was looking over my shoulder to the right looking for a gap and then I hit something it would take me significantly longer to apply my brakes after hearing or feeling a collision. This would have resulted in the rider being fully run over and not just bumped off the front of the car.

I suggest they knew what they were doing and just overcooked their intimidation taking down the rider.

Unfortunately it’ll just be way too easy for the driver to say they were looking away and didn’t account for the rider, before accidentally clipping them. Nothing more will happen other than a traffic infringement for maybe following too closely or some other unfathomable offence.

TLDR – it was on purpose


That assumes the driver hasn't looked back just prior to hitting the cyclist.

Either way, it doesn't excuse impatient driving nor stupidity.


Agreed. Like many in this thread Clydes was making an argument to suit a pov when there are plenty of ways that i could have described another scenario. You described on such obvious one.

Too many people are trying too hard to attribute more into the driver than we can be sure of. The offence was bad enough as it is. And unchallenge-able. Embellishing with challenge-able baggage achieves nothing other than obscuring the rightness of our complaint about an act of seriously dangerous and bad driving.

Lets keep it simple. And rely only on what is there for all to see. Clear as daylight.
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby sogood » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:36 am

trailgumby wrote:Have to agree with ClydesMcDale. If it was unintentional the rider would have been run over.

Disagree here as one can't be so definitive. It's a merging situations where one often have one foot on the brake. A little distraction and misjudgement and it's into the rear of another vehicle. Take the cyclist out of the scene and this type of collisions happen on a regular basis on our roads. Correct, the driver needs to be punished for various reasons, but calling it intentional at this stage is way too early.
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby wgc138 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:44 am

Its sickening to watch that footage, gives me the creeps knowing someone could easily ram me from behind and once its all said and done, a simple sorry from the driver is sufficient to get on with their day.

The driver's action is direct, calculated and to an extend deliberate. One would always argue to be more cautions driving near a cyclist or pedestrian, ones without metal protecting their body. Mind you, being in SE Qld I've seen some shockers on the merging lanes and not to mention, the dread round abouts (OMG)... even driving near these cars I'd either slow down or move to the right side, way in advance. This applies to some cars who thinks they have right of passage and everyone else should give way ... as someone has said on this thread or another, we have little respect for cyclists which is sad to see when other countries are the complete opposite.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby x8pg2qr » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:09 am

Dashcam webcam footage maybe?

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby zero » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:23 pm

trailgumby wrote:Have to agree with ClydesMcDale. If it was unintentional the rider would have been run over.

It takes 0.4 seconds for the nerve impulse to travel from brain to foot. Add foot travel time from throttle to brake and then hazard perception time to interpret the situation and make the decision to brake on top of that and the answer can only be that the driver saw the impending situation and had the foot staged on the brake already at the moment of collision.

The driver has some pretty serious questions to answer.



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I don't think the driver did react quickly, there is no sign of braking weight transfer on the video, and the braking required to avoid catching the rider once grounded is in the order of 0.5g - 0.6g (the rate at which a person stops when sliding - maybe a little less if the car was rolling the rider). ie in order to actually outbrake a sliding rider, there has to be considerable visible dipping of the car body.

I'd suggest that the only reason this wasn't a GBH or fatality is the low ground clearance on the car concerned and the low initial contact speed difference - didn't require imparting of that much energy in one go to keep the rider ahead of the car. Whilst other vulnerable user collisions are different in this particular case, the rider was largely saved by that not being a land cruiser more than anything else.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby Aushiker » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:45 pm

biker jk wrote:
WarbyD wrote:I don't dispute any of that, so let's just accept that we're mostly on the same page rather than debating what consitutes a "mistake" ;)


"Mistake", "accident". :roll: SMIDSY. Well in that case why fine the driver at all! No one is perfect.


+ 1

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby London Boy » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:45 am

glawrence2000 wrote:Send them to jail. See how they like the radical life change that hitting someone brings to the victim.

I'm at a loss.

Careless driving, 3 months suspension and $600 fine. Apparently.

There will also be the civil case, to compensate the rider (new bike, injuries, etc). The injury will be covered by CTP, but she will have to fork out for a replacement for his damaged bike, clothes, etc.

She'll think twice in future I'm sure.

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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby rpmspinman » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:19 pm

That's something. I hope its a lesson for others too.
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:12 pm

London Boy wrote:but she will have to fork out for a replacement for his damaged bike, clothes, etc.

She'll think twice in future I'm sure.

The bike and clothing costs will be a lot more than her paltry fine. She will have some thinking to do about correct, safe, driving skills.
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Re: Cyclist rammed from behind - webcam footage

Postby cp123 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:59 pm

3 months and $600???

not enough! :evil:

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