Left turn hand signal

[silentC]

Here's a question:

There's an intersection on my regular route with is a left hander for me off the main road and into a side street. It's halfway down a hill and the side street is a main route to another town, so fairly busy. The speed limit is 50, and because it's downhill, I'm usually doing that as I approach. I then want to slow down for a couple of reasons, one being that I don't want to take it too fast and the other being that it is not completely unheard of for someone to turn right into that street in front of you. So as I'm on the brakes reducing speed and getting ready to take the corner, making a meaningful hand signal is a bit difficult.

I know that it's not mandatory to make a left turn signal, but I feel I want to for a couple of reasons. One is that there are often cars turning out of that side street and the nice ones will wait (more frequent now that I have the blinky light). I'd like to be able to let them know I'm turning so they can go. Secondly, despite travelling at or near the speed limit, there is often a car up your backside, and so I want them to know that I'm about to turn off in the interests of not having a road rage incident because I'm holding them up and, even worse, slowing down.

Removing one hand from the bars to stick out an arm in a clear signal like I would usually do is a bit unsettling, so I usually just do a little flicky gesture which most people ignore. I've tried indicating with my head, but that doesn't work either. I'm touched that these drivers care enough to not pull out in front of me, so I want to let them know it won't bother me if they do.

What should I do?

[Parker]

You practise removing your left hand from the bar to indicate appropriately.

[silentC]

I hear ya, but how do you brake and do that at the same time? Might be me, might be the bike, but one handed braking on the front brake only at 50 with the other hand off the bars makes things get a bit wobbly.

[KenGS]

Unclip and indicate with your leg.
Seriously though, safety comes before courtesy.

[silentC]

safety comes before courtesy

Yeah that's how I've been running pretty much. Just trying to be a good road citizen...

When I was a kid, my cousin had indicators on his pushy, activated by a button next to each grip. Only on the back though.

[Parker]

I hear ya, but how do you brake and do that at the same time? Might be me, might be the bike, but one handed braking on the front brake only at 50 with the other hand off the bars makes things get a bit wobbly.

Well, with your right hand you brake and with your left hand/arm you indicate and you do this at the same time.

Coming into a corner at 50km per hour? Is that what you're doing? If so, get to a crit track or a road race and do it there. I would think that that is too fast to come into a corner and be sure that you have enough time to stop if there is something coming at you from the right.... ie: round-a-bout

[silentC]

Well, I'm coming down the hill at 50, which is the speed limit, and then I'm slowing down to make the turn, which is why I have the brakes on. I'm probably doing 20 or 30 when I take it I guess, don't hammer me on it, because I could be wrong. It's perfectly safe

So I start slowing down maybe 50 metres out, and I want to indicate that I'm turning left, but I'm still braking. So yeah, one-handed on the front brake only, other hand off the bars, going down hill and slowing from 50. It's all a bit dodgy I reckon. Actually what I do now, is I stop braking momentarily and flash the signal, then back on the brakes.

Maybe I'm just being a wuss. I've had a recent incident involving single-handed bar work and not keen to repeat it

[il padrone]

I have just such a turn on my commute home, except it is a right-turn, and often there is traffic (inluding PT buses) waiting to pull out of the road I am turnng in to. I make a lane change at traffic speeds (~45-50kmh) to get into the right-turn lane, but then have to hammer both the brakes for my right turn. Waiting drivers should see me comng down (with my headlight on) in the right-turn lane, however there have been numerous times where these drivers (including the bus drivers) have pulled out straight in front of me Useless tools!

On such a road I will be braking hard both brakes to control the speed. Once I had that down to a manageable level I may be able to brake one-handed and give a left-turn signal. This may be as little as 20-30m before the intersection. As has been said earlier - safety comes before courtesy.

[Parker]

To be honest, ever since I started doing core work (Planks) at the gym my bike control has gotten better and I can ride for heaps longer without hands, I can signal with my left hand which for most of my riding time I've found that a little difficult as well.

When I signle left I do have a habbit of squeezing my top tube with my legs as I brake, maybe it feels more stable doing that, once I've signalled and I've been going down a hill I'll then brake further and then turn assuming it's safe to do so.

Does that help at all?

[silentC]

Yeah I generally don't have trouble riding one-handed (unless there's a hidden speed bump in front of me, in which case I fall off) or no-handed when it's flat or up hill. Down hill under brakes is the problem. If I hit just the front brake on my bike when I'm travelling at any speed > 20k or so, the front end becomes unstable and starts to shake. Could be the bike, or me as I said. If I let go of the brake all is good and I could conduct an orchestra if I had to.

I'll try a few things on the next ride. Probably a combination of taking off more speed earlier and try to get a decent signal in before the corner. I guess I was more curious as to whether anyone else bothered...

[Parker]

I always signal... unless I forget, so yep, mostly

[il padrone]

Rarely signal left-turns. Only ever do it when it may be polite to a waiting driver and it is feasible to do so safely.

In the left-turn you describe, mostly I would never bother. It has no impact for drivers pulling out really, and those doing a right turn into the side street have to give way to you regardless. Following traffic must overtake safely, so they can deal with it and wait or change lanes. I may sound mercenary on this but a bicycle is a vehicle, just like any other car.

[silentC]

Yep sounds fair enough. I indicated a left yesterday at a different intersection and the driver ignored me. It was as if they were thinking "I'm not pulling out until I know where you're going..." Either that or they were blinded by my 'DayLightning'

[Mulger bill]

Find somewhere similar in topography but quieter and practice Parkers trick, it should help with the wobbles.

I try to indicate twice for these if possible, once before braking which will give followers the tip and when a little closer for people waiting to come out.

[ColinOldnCranky]

While your question is a good one, the bit that I focussed on was...

...with is a left hander for me off the main road and into a side street.

My advice is to not swweat it and to avoid signalling left off main roads as a general riding practice. Let me explain.

In the many years that I commuted by bike I can count on one hand the number of times that I truly got surprised by circumstances not predicted which almost undid me.
I was heading along a significant road - 60kph limit - that carried a steady stream of traffic. I signalled to turn left with about twenty or thirty metres.

Now drivers in cars do NOT appreciate how much they slow down to take a corner. If quizzed I woudl guess that many think they knock off a third of their speed. In fact it is a hard hoon turn if you take a corner at 40kph. Typically the car will be doing 15kph, and maybe even less.

On the other hand, a cyclist on a bike, with the dynamics of a banked turn and with the advantage of thin round-profile tyres, will slow down a lot less on a clean dry road.

So, as I am akmost on that corner and focussing on the a point further up front and around the corner, a car passes me on the outside and turns left. RIGHT IN MY PATH! She was going slowly, regardless of her understanding, and I had to brake hard, lock my front wheel almost at right angles and stalled atop it with cleats holding firmly on. I managed to thump my hand onto her boot to stop the topple that was about to happen and somehow steady myself back into an upright riding-stable position.

I reported the woman who, after realising, bolted as quickly as she could negotiate thru traffic.

Indicating left off a major road is an invitation to drivers to do the same to you. Not out of malice but out of a lack of appreciation of the different approaches to turning and a desire to pass what they think is a slower vehicle.

My advice - generally not to signal left off busy and significant roads. Perhaps with an exception as a courtesy to a driver coming out of the side street but ONLY if you KNOW that there are no trailing vehicles.

If you are concerned about the driver up your clacker, then really it is best to simply slow down over a bit of distance and not to hit the corner and then slow down right on it. That car up your clacker is, anyway, the one highly likely to cut past you if you signal left in that mistaken beklief that bikes take corners in the manner that cars do.

If you are seriously concerned about drivers on your tail, then an alternative strategy is to signal, but if you do, maybe you should also corner as a car would - at an unnaturally slow speed on a bike so that you are less likely to intersect their path. As they mistakenly expect anyway.

[outnabike]

I am with you Colin, but my experience has been that of drivers indicating a right turn into the street that I will turn left into.If I get left and indicate, the car behind wants to do a shave pass or if nothing is behind, the car turning right tries to whizz in front.

So I sit and claim the lane whatever, don't indicate so that a waiting right turner is not going to know that I intend to turn left until the last minute. Then only when right on the corner I may give a signal, but it is usually so the car behind will know.

Most times the car drivers are ok, some get angry. But they are angry to begin with, and when I blast them after I have given a signal and get cut off, I get angry.
My way I feel ok and go on my merry way. No point in both of us getting angry.

[ColinOldnCranky]

My way I feel ok and go on my merry way. No point in both of us getting angry.

I love your twisted survival instincts.

[Xplora]

If you have to signal, for your own peace of mind, then just do it early. Sometimes you want to make it clear you are doing something - if that means signalling 100m before the corner, then do that. You have to have your hands on the bars to brake!

Also bear in mind that they can't see brake lights so they are going to have to give you space and time regardless. "you can't win"

[human909]

If I hit just the front brake on my bike when I'm travelling at any speed > 20k or so, the front end becomes unstable and starts to shake. Could be the bike, or me as I said.

Hmmm.... Possibly something bent in the geometry?

I normally don't use the rear brake at all as it is totally unnecessary most of the time. The front alone has all the stopping power you need.

(When slowing for a right hand turn I would use the rear brake while slowing and signalling. But if I'm hitting the turn at speed then my hands will be back on the front brake as soon as possible.)

[bychosis]

Similar when you need to power before the turn, one hand off while pedalling hard is also difficult. I have a roundabout on my commute which is on a bit of an incline so I'm on the pedals on the approach, especially if there is traffic behind. Pedal, pedal, sit up a bit and signal, pedal, pedal.

I would suggest a slight over-brake, quick-ish signal, then continue on. Same under power, over power for a second, signal while you take a little breather, back on the power.

[il padrone]

I normally don't use the rear brake at all as it is totally unnecessary most of the time. The front alone has all the stopping power you need.

(When slowing for a right hand turn I would use the rear brake while slowing and signalling. But if I'm hitting the turn at speed then my hands will be back on the front brake as soon as possible.)

That approach can bring you very badly unstuck (pun intended) in a turn on any sort of wet roads. Ask me how..... I know only too well.

I nearly always brake using both front and rear, but when going into a turn (if I still need any brake) I will only use the rear brake. Yes, it is a lot less effective, but it will slow you, and if there's any traction loss it will slide rather than dumping your front end. I also have experienced concerns when using the front brake only and trying to raise the arm - weight transfer forwards under braking load can mess with your steering stability when you have just one hand on the bars. Generally not to be advised if you are braking hard.

[human909]

That approach can bring you very badly unstuck (pun intended) in a turn on any sort of wet roads. Ask me how..... I know only too well. I nearly always brake using both front and rear, but when going into a turn (if I still need any brake) I will only use the rear brake. Yes, it is a lot less effective, but it will slow you, and if there's any traction loss it will slide rather than dumping your front end.

It should be noted that I am NOT braking in the turn, only before it. So it will be SIGNAL, BRAKE, TURN. In straight line braking your front will still have excellent grip. I'm not worry about losing traction in the wet on front wheel braking. The only time I even feel the need to use the rear is when braking when cornering (rare) or off road. I do MTB and I used both brakes liberally when needed.

(I can honestly can't remember ever losing traction in the wet on my bike except about 8 years ago when I had a mechanical failure. My middle chainring bent under load and chain came off. Foot slipped off pedal and weight went right, bike went left. I might have still not recovered had it been dry.)

I also have experienced concerns when using the front brake only and trying to raise the arm - weight transfer forwards under braking load can mess with your steering stability when you have just one hand on the bars. Generally not to be advised if you are braking hard.

Completely agree. I would never brake hard one handed, no matter which brake you use you need both hands to brace yourself.

[il padrone]

That approach can bring you very badly unstuck (pun intended) in a turn on any sort of wet roads. Ask me how..... I know only too well. I nearly always brake using both front and rear, but when going into a turn (if I still need any brake) I will only use the rear brake. Yes, it is a lot less effective, but it will slow you, and if there's any traction loss it will slide rather than dumping your front end.

I've never had any issues.

But you live in the northern suburbs, where they think Ruckers Hill is a big descent

(I can honestly can't remember ever losing traction in the wet on my bike except about 8 years ago when I had a mechanical failure

Yes, I guess that's pretty right. You don't often lose the front. Maybe just my issue, as I have had a few rather nasty falls when the front wheel has lost traction. Nasty bone breaks I'm just that bit more wary in corners and turns now.

[human909]

But you live in the northern suburbs, where they think Ruckers Hill is a big descent

I'll have to wear that one.

Yes. My regular riding rarely includes steep hills. But yes on steep curvy hills I'll be using both brakes if cornering and braking.

[silentC]

My bike is a twenty year old lug frame so probably not as stable as a modern bike. It's definitely not happy about braking the front wheel only with one hand off the bars.

Regarding front/rear, I always use both but more on the front which is how I was taught.

All the above makes sense, even where it is contradictory I guess I will just stop worrying about anyone who want's to come out and just concentrate on getting around the corner. It gets even more interesting down the road where you have to turn right up hill with a dip in front of you big enough to hide a car and potentially someone coming up behind you wanting to go straight through, but I won't bore you with the detail