NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

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Nate
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:02 pm

wellington_street wrote:Completely agree with what TrailGumby said in the post above, however this behaviour is just not on from Police. These two are the perfect images that need to go - along with details of LAC, "investigating" officers etc. to your local pollie, the Roads Minister, the shadow Roads Minister and perhaps a friendly Greens Senator to get the Police attitude raised at a political level. Minister/Shadow Minister for Police might even be worth it.
Even the most uninterested in cycling person should see these images, the Police lack of action, and think it is completely unreasonable.


lol - dont worry... i'm on it well & truely ;)

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby wellington_street » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:19 pm

Nate wrote:
wellington_street wrote:Completely agree with what TrailGumby said in the post above, however this behaviour is just not on from Police. These two are the perfect images that need to go - along with details of LAC, "investigating" officers etc. to your local pollie, the Roads Minister, the shadow Roads Minister and perhaps a friendly Greens Senator to get the Police attitude raised at a political level. Minister/Shadow Minister for Police might even be worth it.
Even the most uninterested in cycling person should see these images, the Police lack of action, and think it is completely unreasonable.


lol - dont worry... i'm on it well & truely ;)

Excellent! I wish you the best of luck

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:53 pm

BJL wrote:I'm not sure why they would need to accurately measure the distance between the vehicles? Surely the only requirement under the legislation would be to reasonably prove that the distance apart is less than one metre. Is it a requirement to demonstrate the exact measurement?


While it's the road rules, transgressions fall under the coverage of criminal law. That means the standard of proof for a prosecution is much higher than balance of probability, comfortable satisfaction or being able to reasonably prove something; it needs to be proved beyond reasonable doubt

That said, it doesn't need to be accurately measured if it is severe enough.

When it gets down to 500mm or less in a 60 zone or less, 800mm or less above 60 and your measurements show that, then it's pretty much beyond reasonable doubt that they didn't give the minimum required safe passing distance.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Mon May 15, 2017 9:16 am

ahhh Harbourside LAC...
"The driver of the close pass has been contacted and a warning has been issued in regards to the passing cycles and the required conditions that need to be observed and followed."

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Last time the officer put it in bold that they're getting an "official caution" ooooooohhhhh

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Mon May 15, 2017 11:13 am

LOLs...

So the driver that deliberately drove their car into me?
"As stated the details were exchanged between both parties for the first accident so police don't need to be involved, you just need to lodge a claim with their insurance company for damages. (no cops event as details exchanged)
The passing issue no cops event for a warning."

Given the guy that drove his car into me was reported 7 years ago for driving like an absolute nutter... by me! (he even made 60 minutes!)... hmmm this isnt looking very good.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby hunch » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:17 am


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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Cheesewheel » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:58 pm


One has to wonder even how many of these were proactively pursued by police and how many involved cyclists handing in their video footage along with all their paperwork to substantiate the veracity of distances ....
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby find_bruce » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:17 pm

I would be surprised if any of the 17 were the result of observations by a police officer, let alone any active pursuit by NSW Police.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:34 pm

Two of those 17 relate to submissions made by me, one from Nate (I think) and one from a rider by the name of Alan Corvy. The rest are from police observing close passes or collisions.

Here is part 3of my series on how to do it.

http://www.simplycyclingtraining.com/mi ... nce-part3/

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:22 pm

Fines for not having a bell have far exceeded unsafe passing fines by something like 27 times. Is this saying that the NSW Govt and NSW Police see not having a bell as being considerably more dangerous than close passing?

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If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:53 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Fines for not having a bell have far exceeded unsafe passing fines by something like 27 times. Is this saying that the NSW Govt and NSW Police see not having a bell as being considerably more dangerous than close passing?

More like they prefer soft targets.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Comedian » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:20 pm

trailgumby wrote:Two of those 17 relate to submissions made by me, one from Nate (I think) and one from a rider by the name of Alan Corvy. The rest are from police observing close passes or collisions.

Here is part 3of my series on how to do it.

http://www.simplycyclingtraining.com/mi ... nce-part3/

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I love all this stuff. It's all logic and reason. My experience is though.. if the cop doesn't like cyclists you've just wasted a heap of your time.

At least that's how it is in QLD. If the cop doesn't want to do it, then it's over.. dead as. There is no ability to escalate it, and all the other cops will just say "what he said". :(

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby human909 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:35 pm

trailgumby wrote:More like they prefer soft targets.


I was one of those last week and got a $476. And a lecture on cycling safety..... (

Yeah... How about you follow up on ACTUAL incidents like a hit&run and a road rage physical assault. The latter the driver was identified and with several witnesses on hand. But somehow following up on ACTUAL crimes is too hard work.

Far easier to write out a fine for a harmless action. :roll:

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby human909 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:37 pm

human909 wrote:Yeah... How about you follow up on ACTUAL incidents like a hit&run and a road rage physical assault. The latter the driver was identified and with several witnesses on hand. But somehow following up on ACTUAL crimes is too hard work.


:oops:
I spoke a day too soon. (Its has been 18 months!)

In the mail today I received an advisory notice from the Victoria Police saying that the road rage guy was found guilty (charge unspecified) and fined $1500... Presumably he either pleaded or he was convicted on his own statements...

The cogs of justice do turn slowly. But at least they turn... Though unfortunately my fine is going 1/3 of his yet I didn't deliberately hit a pedestrian and assault a cyclist in the course of 5 minutes.....

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:53 am

human909 wrote:I spoke a day too soon. (Its has been 18 months!)

In the mail today I received an advisory notice from the Victoria Police saying that the road rage guy was found guilty (charge unspecified) and fined $1500... Presumably he either pleaded or he was convicted on his own statements...

The cogs of justice do turn slowly. But at least they turn...

Yes, it's slow. Part of the beyond reasonable doubt framework designed to address the mismatch in resources between the state and individual accused - they need to be given every chance to defend themselves.

I was on the receiving end of a guy with an anger problem on Anzac Day this year. He deliberately drove into me and damaged my car. Then, stole my phone while I was taking photos of the point of collision and drove directly at me when I tried to prevent him leaving, carrying me some 30-40m on his hood at high acceleration (well, for an old Corolla) before braking hard.

Among other things (assault etc) he is facing a menacing driving with intent charge - possibly up to 10 years gaol.

I expect it to take quite awhile to run its course. The good thing is I have two independent witnesses and CCTV footage to back my side. He is still pleading not guilty, though.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby human909 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:06 pm

trailgumby wrote:Yes, it's slow. Part of the beyond reasonable doubt framework designed to address the mismatch in resources between the state and individual accused - they need to be given every chance to defend themselves.

18months for a basic charge? In my mind there are better ways of going about such things. Many other systems operate on weeks not months or years. Seems to me a more sensible answer would be a quick preliminary judgement and then a accessible and thorough appeal avenue. But this is hardly the forums to discuss the flaws in our justice system.....

trailgumby wrote:I was on the receiving end of a guy with an anger problem on Anzac Day this year. He deliberately drove into me and damaged my car. Then, stole my phone while I was taking photos of the point of collision and drove directly at me when I tried to prevent him leaving, carrying me some 30-40m on his hood at high acceleration (well, for an old Corolla) before braking hard.


Doesn't sound too disimilar to my situation except a different order. Driver deliberately drove through a crowd of pedestrians all managed to dodge him except one who ended up on his bonnet for a couple dozen meters. He then took off... I was an onlooker who after staring in shock for a few seconds took off after him on my bike....

When I started taking pictures of him, his car and his number plate he got out of the car. I initially stood my ground but then the sensible choice of flight overcame the pride driven choice of standing my ground. He ripped me off my bike and things got physical. No strikes were thrown but it was all quite unpleasantly aggressive behaviour. He was itching for the fight, but it is surprising the number of people who hold back when the other person isn't willing to join the fray. Short of being ready for a strike and staying on my feet I didn't fight back.....

I'm not certain but he probably just got charged as low level assault. As I understand it the victim of the hit and run did not want to come forward (he was grazed but nothing serious).

(Sometimes I really also thing it is confusion and uncertainty that holds people back... In another circumstance I had one guy strike me to the helmet.... Then keep continuing to threaten. But my passive yet confident response seems to stop further action. I suppose it isn't much different in the animal kingdom. Plenty of animals posture to scare off potential danger. In contrast turning your back and running just encourages the attacker.)

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Re: Demerit points for cyclists

Postby Bunged Knee » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:42 am

There`s been a debate of including demerit points for cyclists on Ch7 Sunrise at 6.50am this morning about cyclists running thru red lights/stop signs.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/watch/38649702/should-cyclists-have-a-demerits-system/

Should Police be back to training to be educated about cyclists rights of not including the demerit points for riding fines...

From the Terrorgraph subscriber web in which I have no account and will never pay them.

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It should be noted that demerit points don`t apply to bicycles which don`t have the high powered motors and belching the polluting fumes in the air. :evil:

I think that the officer should be demoted to desk job for a minimum of 2 years for making a mistake of including the demerit points for cyclists to teach him a lesson. :)
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:00 am

I cannot see that Daily Telegraph article as it is behind a paywall, but that's a terrible look and I'm sure this has been brought up before (actually on this very forum). :roll: It makes it look bad for those of us who do stop for red lights (which I always do).

I could guess the day of the week this happened, and the approximate time along with the location.

Edit: suspicions confirmed from another forum. They were also out in Parramatta Park conducting speeding fines for riders going above 30km/h. I hope they got car drivers too, as I've been overtaken in Parra Park by cars doing much more than 30km/h.
Last edited by g-boaf on Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Bunged Knee » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:26 am

^^ It was in google search of "cyclists demerit points" that I grabbed the screenshot in computer and the links can't open up and my above screenshot don't appears in phone search.
But links do go to paywall in which it's a rip off.
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:40 am

On those notes, also be careful at the traffic lights on Reconciliation Road, Prospect (the pedestrian/bicycle crossing to go up to Prospect Dam). These lights are extremely slow to change after 7:30am and the Police may well get there to ping riders who are fed up waiting for ages.

The Police often get there doing speed checks on cars...

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:46 pm

g-boaf wrote:Edit: suspicions confirmed from another forum. They were also out in Parramatta Park conducting speeding fines for riders going above 30km/h. I hope they got car drivers too, as I've been overtaken in Parra Park by cars doing much more than 30km/h.


I'd like to see proof that you can use a radar gun & its been calibrated against a cyclist etc...

no surprises with any of the above.
I've been tapping away at my end with such incredibly poor responses from NSW police... as expected... and of course all documented :)

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:49 pm

trailgumby wrote:Yes, it's slow. Part of the beyond reasonable doubt framework designed to address the mismatch in resources between the state and individual accused - they need to be given every chance to defend themselves.

I was on the receiving end of a guy with an anger problem on Anzac Day this year. He deliberately drove into me and damaged my car. Then, stole my phone while I was taking photos of the point of collision and drove directly at me when I tried to prevent him leaving, carrying me some 30-40m on his hood at high acceleration (well, for an old Corolla) before braking hard.

Among other things (assault etc) he is facing a menacing driving with intent charge - possibly up to 10 years gaol.

I expect it to take quite awhile to run its course. The good thing is I have two independent witnesses and CCTV footage to back my side. He is still pleading not guilty, though.

Just to follow up on this, it went to court in October. From my recollection the guy got $800 in fines, 18 month suspended sentence and license suspension, and (the best part) mandatory anger management counselling. The magistrate made it clear van Bree had to engage with the counselling or she would see him back in court for more serious consequences.

There was a partial discount for a guilty plea at court and the fact he was dependent on welfare, being a "reformed" drug addict and carer for a dependant parent. Defence lawyer pleaded mea culpa for giving him bad advice about not pleading guilty earlier, and then tried to minimise the seriousness of what he did in sentencing submissions, but the intake of breath from the magistrate when viewing the video gave me some confidence it would not be glossed over. The prosecutor's rebuttal was a single sentence: "If not for the complainant being a man of some agility, the result would no doubt have been very different."

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Philistine » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:13 am

I was confused when the one metre passing rule became law in NSW, because I already believed there to be a 1.5 metre rule in existence. I don't know where I got this idea. Possibly it was advisory only, or perhaps I had read the rules from another jurisdiction and mentally grafted them on to NSW. Perhaps I dreamt it.

A few days ago,I took delivery of a cycling jersey from a SE Asian E-Bay store (stay with me, this is going somewhere). The E-Bay entry only showed the jersey from the front, and I could hardly have complained if the back had carried abusive messages aimed at motorists. It didn't, but it did have an image of a car passing a bike, and an arrow between them with"1.5 metres" on it. The SE Asian rag trade is not noted for original designs, and I have to conclude that there exists a western country where cycling is popular and motorists drive on the right - and where there is a 1.5 metre passing rule!

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby bychosis » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:28 am

It's not going to have much impact at that size though.
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby redsonic » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:53 pm

bychosis wrote:It's not going to have much impact at that size though.


I'm sure they can read it if they are closer than 1.5m behind you :wink:

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