NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

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Nate
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:48 pm

So I put another 4 incidents in this morning...
3 close passes & one very "VERY" interesting incident where a car drove into me.

Apparently my previous ones have had some success - the cabbie on the crossing above has been issued a fine. However its really hard to track if its gone through. If it goes to court - then i'll know.
Otherwise there's only a note that goes in the system to state "fine paid" - do i trust the police to report accurately on that? No. Also what if they're on a payment plan due to financial hardship? it can take months to pay the fine.

I put 2 in & was told "too much time had passed" - after continually chasing for feedback. That was <3months & all 3 were well within the 6 month limit. (This was north Sydney police - Harbourside LAC - so no surprises what so ever.)
One this morning I was told "i'll call them & give them a warning" - Harbourside... told him that wasnt good enough & I wish to seek further action. He was really nice on the phone when we spoke later.

Either way the little project is coming along nicely & the "VERY" interesting one above is really the icing on the cake & very timely indeed.

g-boaf
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby g-boaf » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:43 pm

Autogefuhl review of a Mini: https://youtu.be/F0A9nBNdRy0?t=32m47s

If only all journos would advocate passing riders as he does at 32:47 above. He makes it very clear to pass riders with plenty of distance. Such a difference between him (a German motoring journo) and the local journos here in Australia. If only everyone were so responsible.

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trailgumby
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:19 am

Nate wrote:I put 2 in & was told "too much time had passed" - after continually chasing for feedback. That was <3months & all 3 were well within the 6 month limit. (This was north Sydney police - Harbourside LAC - so no surprises what so ever.)

I've currently got one dragging along with them as well. It's time I chased up with them again. The senior constable investigating wouldn't give me an ETA when I spoke a fortnight ago, as he's deskbound on restricted duties due to a workplace injuries and dependent on other officers to interview the driver.

I might email the Duty Officer again and enquire.

I have another from Wednesday morning where identifying the driver won't be an issue. He stopped and wanted to have a "chat" so got his mug on the forward camera. I'll go back for measurements tonight.



Good to hear you're getting some wins and that the burden for these things is not on my shoulders alone.

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Bunged Knee
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Bunged Knee » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:50 pm

^^ What a jerk driver?
Is that yesterday? Timestamp is different, you'd need to adjust it to correct date.
ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:15 pm

Bunged Knee wrote:^^ What a jerk driver?
Is that yesterday? Timestamp is different, you'd need to adjust it to correct date.

Yeah, I need to get around to that. But the camera timestamps drift anyway. Hence why I called out the time on the video. The date of the offense I will mention in my statement. It happened Wednesday this week.

Next up: a near-dooring by (apparently) a fellow cyclist. Just as well I saw it coming and had time to stop. There was a bus overtaking at the time too, and I'm glad *he* left me a metre.


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Nate
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:47 pm

trailgumby wrote:I've currently got one dragging along with them as well. It's time I chased up with them again. The senior constable investigating wouldn't give me an ETA when I spoke a fortnight ago, as he's deskbound on restricted duties due to a workplace injuries and dependent on other officers to interview the driver.

I might email the Duty Officer again and enquire.

I have another from Wednesday morning where identifying the driver won't be an issue. He stopped and wanted to have a "chat" so got his mug on the forward camera. I'll go back for measurements tonight.

Good to hear you're getting some wins and that the burden for these things is not on my shoulders alone.


Lol... well lets just say things got REAL interesting...
anyone see that 60mins episode... about 7years ago? a ute... GW267... guess who popped up again.

Really interesting conversation too... especially about his recollection of the previous incident... compared to the statement he gave them.
i really dont think the police will come up rosy on this one... especially after he drove into the back of me deliberately... *cough*

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:34 pm

Nate wrote:i really dont think the police will come up rosy on this one... especially after he drove into the back of me deliberately... *cough*
Say what? :shock: Msg me off-line if it's sensitive.

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Nate
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:24 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Nate wrote:i really dont think the police will come up rosy on this one... especially after he drove into the back of me deliberately... *cough*
Say what? :shock: Msg me off-line if it's sensitive.


Same behaviour as 7 years ago really.
Waiting at a roundabout, i was in front & he just drove into the back of me. He'd been following me for a few hundred meters & over taking up the inside & all sorts of stuff - so cant use "didnt see me".
Usual stupidity from this guy - seen it before...

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Thoglette » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:39 pm

Nate wrote: He'd been following me for a few hundred meters & over taking up the inside & all sorts of stuff - so cant use "didnt see me". Usual stupidity from this guy - seen it before...

Then you might want to spend a few dollars and talk with a solicitor about pushing to have assault charges laid.

Plus filling for damages and an AVO (or whatever it's called locally).

Finally, see if you can get the vehicle seized as evidence for a few months :twisted:
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

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trailgumby
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:18 pm

Nate wrote:Same behaviour as 7 years ago really.
Waiting at a roundabout, i was in front & he just drove into the back of me. He'd been following me for a few hundred meters & over taking up the inside & all sorts of stuff - so cant use "didnt see me".
Usual stupidity from this guy - seen it before...
So am I understanding you correctly -- this is the second time you've been hit by this guy in similar circumstances? :shock:

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Nate
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:04 pm

trailgumby wrote:Usual stupidity from this guy - seen it before...
So am I understanding you correctly -- this is the second time you've been hit by this guy in similar circumstances? :shock:[/quote]

wasnt hit previously - but the pass was fscking close... was within 10cm... (AT) 50km/h... in a school zone.. .overtaking on the left... across an unbroken white line... with school kids around.

bigger concern is what the police told me after a formal complaint & investigation... and what he said they told him....
dont worry - all on camera & emails :)

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:17 pm

Nate wrote:bigger concern is what the police told me after a formal complaint & investigation... and what he said they told him....
dont worry - all on camera & emails :)
The traffic sergeant at North Sydney initially said he wouldn't investigate because he couldn't verify my measurements. Puh-lease. :roll: So I offered to meet him on site with a BNSW rep to teach him how to use a tape measure.

Would you mind doing me a favour mate, and message me (or post here) how many successful MPD infringements you had issued off your footage in the year to 31 March? BNSW is looking to compile some numbers on the pitiful enforcement efforts by the 16,000-strong NSW police force.

So far it's two from me, 1 from another fellow, and I think two from you versus 31 from NSWPol. Compare that to the millions in fines levied against riders for things like not wearing helmets or having bells fitted. :evil:

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:37 pm

trailgumby wrote:Would you mind doing me a favour mate, and message me (or post here) how many successful MPD infringements you had issued off your footage in the year to 31 March? BNSW is looking to compile some numbers on the pitiful enforcement efforts by the 16,000-strong NSW police force.

So far it's two from me, 1 from another fellow, and I think two from you versus 31 from NSWPol. Compare that to the millions in fines levied against riders for things like not wearing helmets or having bells fitted. :evil:


I'll PM you...
I'm going to drop something pretty damn sizable soon - will be reaching out to BNSW soon too & a few others

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Leethal » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:58 pm

I wasn’t sure if I should post this here or not (didn’t want to add fuel to the fire), but given the numerous posts above regarding one-sided charade with respect to police enforcement against cyclists in NSW, figured I should. Mods, delete if not appropriate.

EDIT: there is a rear-facing video but will keep it offline for now.

Image
Road: S-Works Tarmac SL5 etap
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:34 pm

Nate wrote:
trailgumby wrote:Would you mind doing me a favour mate, and message me (or post here) how many successful MPD infringements you had issued off your footage in the year to 31 March? BNSW is looking to compile some numbers on the pitiful enforcement efforts by the 16,000-strong NSW police force.

So far it's two from me, 1 from another fellow, and I think two from you versus 31 from NSWPol. Compare that to the millions in fines levied against riders for things like not wearing helmets or having bells fitted. :evil:


I'll PM you...
I'm going to drop something pretty damn sizable soon - will be reaching out to BNSW soon too & a few others

Let me know when and I'll put you in touch with the key guy directly.

Bear in mind the 6 month limitation under the Summary Offenses Act. Older offenses are less likely to get priority than newer ones due to the time it takes to investigate and the likelihood of it creates of running out of time. MPD offenses get pushed the back of the pile due to their restricted resources and more urgent matters like violent crime.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:36 pm

Leethal wrote:I wasn’t sure if I should post this here or not (didn’t want to add fuel to the fire), but given the numerous posts above regarding one-sided charade with respect to police enforcement against cyclists in NSW, figured I should. Mods, delete if not appropriate.
Not seeing it. Privacy settings?

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:58 pm



Went back today with the tape measure. This will be number 4.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:27 pm

Of course no updates given on status..

Called them up...

The officer spoke with Highway Supervisor
- "No action to be taken"
- "Not able to accurately judge distance between vehicles"
Image

Time to get out the crayons?
add these 2 to the ever growing list!

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby g-boaf » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:31 pm

Nate wrote:Of course no updates given on status..

Called them up...

The officer spoke with Highway Supervisor
- "No action to be taken"
- "Not able to accurately judge distance between vehicles"
Image

Time to get out the crayons?
add these 2 to the ever growing list!


If I'm ever in Silver Service 1561 Ford G6E, I'll show the driver that image and give him a telling off.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Scott_C » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:50 pm

Nate wrote:Time to get out the crayons?

I guess so. I just can't see how they can be so dense that they can't see that the road markings show exactly how far away the vehicles are, particularly on the frame with the truck where it is clearly only a single zebra crossing stripe between the camera mounting position and the edge of the truck. Unless they think the zebra crossing stripe is over 1m wide (or larger if your camera is mounted centrally) there is no way that truck isn't within 1m.

Edit: for what it is worth my local standards specify 60cm wide stripes/60cm wide gaps on a zebra crossing.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Nate » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:19 pm

Scott_C wrote:I guess so. I just can't see how they can be so dense ...


That's the problem - they're not.
Multiple LAC's, multiple officers, multiple incidents, multiple people reporting, multiple complaints up the chain to Commanders - all coming to the same outcome: NSW Police are continually & deliberately choosing to NOT enforce laws in place for the safety of cyclists.

This is not incompetence, this is negligence & a deliberate act.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby jasonc » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:04 pm

Nate wrote:
Scott_C wrote:I guess so. I just can't see how they can be so dense ...


That's the problem - they're not.
Multiple LAC's, multiple officers, multiple incidents, multiple people reporting, multiple complaints up the chain to Commanders - all coming to the same outcome: NSW Police are continually & deliberately choosing to NOT enforce laws in place for the safety of cyclists.

This is not incompetence, this is negligence & a deliberate act.


sounds familiar - oh QLD!
Image

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby trailgumby » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:41 pm

Nate wrote:Of course no updates given on status..

Called them up...

The officer spoke with Highway Supervisor
- "No action to be taken"
- "Not able to accurately judge distance between vehicles"

IMAGE SNIPPED

Time to get out the crayons?
add these 2 to the ever growing list!


Getting out the crayons (the electronic equivalent thereof: Microsoft Paint) and marking up the photo with the distances from the paint marks on the road is *exactly* what I do. Based on the responses I have had fro the police, I have formed the view it is what you *have to* do to get them interested.

Here is what became infringement #2. I got no traction until I sent them this image.

Image

It is my view that bringing my software procedure manual writing habits to bear on the problem, and using this kind of visual communication is the *ONLY* reason I've had the successes I've managed to date.

"Not able to judge accurately distances between vehicles" is exactly what Sgt Mick Sweeney at North Sydney LAC said.

I suppressed a sarcastic reply and sweetly offered - via his Duty Officer - to buy Sgt Sweeney a tape measure, meet him on site, and provide a lesson on how to use it, free of charge. I mentioned my contact at Bicycle NSW, who is also a chartered engineer, was also keen to come along and help with the lesson, and then I drew teh Duty Officer's attention to the image in my submission shown below.

The next phone conversation with Sgt Sweeney was a bit more practical.

Image

Your written submissions MUST include images like the above.

If you don't, they won't join the dots. They're not detectives. Deduction and logic are not their skill set.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby wellington_street » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:17 am

Nate wrote:Of course no updates given on status..

Called them up...

The officer spoke with Highway Supervisor
- "No action to be taken"
- "Not able to accurately judge distance between vehicles"
Image

Time to get out the crayons?
add these 2 to the ever growing list!

Completely agree with what TrailGumby said in the post above, however this behaviour is just not on from Police. These two are the perfect images that need to go - along with details of LAC, "investigating" officers etc. to your local pollie, the Roads Minister, the shadow Roads Minister and perhaps a friendly Greens Senator to get the Police attitude raised at a political level. Minister/Shadow Minister for Police might even be worth it.
Even the most uninterested in cycling person should see these images, the Police lack of action, and think it is completely unreasonable.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby BJL » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:24 pm

Nate wrote:Of course no updates given on status..

Called them up...

The officer spoke with Highway Supervisor
- "No action to be taken"
- "Not able to accurately judge distance between vehicles"



I'm not sure why they would need to accurately measure the distance between the vehicles? Surely the only requirement under the legislation would be to reasonably prove that the distance apart is less than one metre. Is it a requirement to demonstrate the exact measurement?

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