NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

diggler
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby diggler » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:41 pm

human909 wrote:So nearly killing somebody has only a slightly larger penalty than not wearing a foam hat.....

Makes sense...


Helmets save lives. To belittle a helmet as a foam hat is about as sensible as calling a seatbelt a bit of material.
Motorists hate cyclists and cyclists hate the motorists and the pedestrians hate the bikers and everybody hates the trucks.

diggler
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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby diggler » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:51 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
Many years ago a duty officer told me my footage was not admissible and was reluctant to accept and action my report. I subsequently git a confirmation from the area commander that the duty officer provided false information. But where there is any doubt, the higher the risk of it being discounted... so the bothersome task of providing the verifications really helps.


This proves police are either stupid or lazy. Most likely both. Why would footage by a private camera be inadmissible? This is stupid beyond belief. Are police cameras magic? Guess what, they have a lens and record onto memory just like any other camera. If any cop is stupid enough to say such nonsense, get their name and badge number. Better still, record their stupidity.
Motorists hate cyclists and cyclists hate the motorists and the pedestrians hate the bikers and everybody hates the trucks.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby diggler » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:05 pm

Scintilla wrote:"In the first year after Minimum Passing Distance was introduced there were only 33 fines given to drivers for this offence, compared with 8,586 fines to cyclists for helmets/footpath/lights/etc (including 463 for not having a bell)... apparently it's 26,000% more important to discourage cyclists than to penalise motorists!!"

Source - interpretation based on NSW Police Infringement Penalty data.


It is a lot easier for a cop to see no helmet, no bell, no light, riding on footpath. It is difficult to see if unambiguously a vehicle is more or less than 1m away.

What do the figures prove anyway? A motorist could argue that drivers were very law abiding because only 33 of them were within the minimum distance.

At the risk of being repetitious, I don't have any fancy cameras and I never get passed too close. I have a horizontal flag which extends 50cm beyond my handlebar. Instead of whingeing about the lack of police enforcement, I have been proactive. The matter is in your hands. You can enforce the law yourself or just sit around whingeing. I know my pleas will fall on deaf ears because people seem to prefer their useless high tech gadgets instead of something as low tech as a flag. Meanwhile nobody passes too close to me.
Motorists hate cyclists and cyclists hate the motorists and the pedestrians hate the bikers and everybody hates the trucks.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby human909 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:01 am

Yeah victims of crime shouldn't get sympathy. They should arm themselves in order to protect themselves. Those that don't and wish for safer streets are just complainers. :roll:

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby StevOz » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:32 am

This is just another law we didn't need and it's introduction has only created greater division amongst road users.

All that was needed was enforcement of the existing road rules, don't overtake unless it is safe to do so.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby find_bruce » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:08 am

StevOz wrote:This is just another law we didn't need and it's introduction has only created greater division amongst road users.

All that was needed was enforcement of the existing road rules, don't overtake unless it is safe to do so.

I used to think enforcement of the existing rules was enough too, however a number of things changed my mind: (1) the realisation that many drivers have no clue where the left edge of their is - one example is the number of cars that can't park anywhere close to the curb & (2) the discovery that NSW Police had a deeply entrenched view, constables, traffic sergeants & senior officers, that any pass was safe if the car didn't hit you - missed by 1cm was safe because they didn't hit you.

I don't agree that it's introduction has created greater division among road users - the vocal idiots were always there (& a small minority) - & if anything the number of close shaves I have experienced has reduced in recent years.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:25 pm

diggler wrote:This proves police are either stupid or lazy.


Well no... this would be like saying all cyclists break the law because one went through a red light. It could be fairer to say that the Police department in general does not prioritise cycling safety - this is in their police culture. But I have met and spoken to various officers who take it much seriously - but for the actual enforcement also find it difficult to impose fines.

A concern raised prior to the introduction by some in the cycling community (and including in this forum) was how it would be enforced because this is a grey area. Speeding in comparison is easier. Where I would like to see a big change is that 'bike rider targeting operations' stop because these have a far lower impact on safety than enforcing the safe passing distance. Currently it appears to be very politically driven to reduce cycling numbers.


StevOz wrote:This is just another law we didn't need and it's introduction has only created greater division amongst road users.


Very similar to the above... safe passing was a problem and for the cycling community it was an opportunity for education and enforcement... but both of these are failing dreadfully so there is very limited practical benefit.

However in one area it helps... WHEN a rider is hit, then the motorist obviously didn't allow for the safe passing distance and with the law it removes some of the ambiguity of whether or not the driver was at fault. In practice a driver can still pull out a lot of excuses as we hear in current legal proceedings:
- The sun was shining
- I wasn't paying attention
- I got confused with the lights
- The rider shouldn't have been on the road

The tragedy is that all of these are used to reduce or remove driver fault.... despite the laws.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:42 pm

AUbicycles wrote:<snip>the Police department in general does not prioritise cycling safety</snip>

How do we get the Police department to prioritise cycling safety?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:58 pm

mikesbytes wrote:How do we get the Police department to prioritise cycling safety?


Good question - my own opinions/thoughts:

- Increase reports to the Police for close passing. When the number of reports grows, they may naturally continue to try and palm them off as many of us may have experienced... but it increases the importance where they feel obliged to tackle it. This would mean internally escalating the priority and also reporting to the government.

- Media pressure as we have seen recently which show a completely unbalanced enforcement.

- Pressure on the Government - they have a big responsibility for police operations targeting bike riders and also influencing their priorities.

- Improve Police processes and training (which is not something 'we' can do - but which should be done so that they can more easily process the reports).

- Get more police on bikes - this is the first chance many will get to experience this and understand why it is important to enforce... but again is something that 'we' have limited say on.

- Support advocacy groups and encourage them to increase the importance of this in their advocacy work.


I realise that these are not new concepts... but unless there is a major event or break though so that it rapidly becomes important, it is plodding away and being active.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:18 pm

mikesbytes wrote:How do we get the Police department to prioritise cycling safety?


They allocate resources and effort where government tell them.

Premier and Transport minister need to support it.
But since they see every close pass fine as a vote lost they aren't really keen on it.

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Re: NSW 1 metre passing distance + increase cyclist fines

Postby Scintilla » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:23 pm

diggler wrote:At the risk of being repetitious, I don't have any fancy cameras and I never get passed too close. I have a horizontal flag which extends 50cm beyond my handlebar. Instead of whingeing about the lack of police enforcement, I have been proactive. The matter is in your hands. You can enforce the law yourself or just sit around whingeing. I know my pleas will fall on deaf ears because people seem to prefer their useless high tech gadgets instead of something as low tech as a flag. Meanwhile nobody passes too close to me.

I do not even use a flag and I have very few problems with close passes. Invariably those incidents I do have occur because I am too generous to motor traffic or have vagued out and I am riding too far to the left.


None of this denies the FACT that close passes occur, through ignorance and even malice, and many riders are suffering fearful incidents. Yet our police forces are refusing to be proactive in enforcing this law to protect the more vulnerable road user.

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