Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby bychosis » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:00 am

mikesbytes wrote:What happened to him in prison had nothing to do with the death of the cyclist. He was in prison as punishment for falling outside of the law.

What happened inside the prison was another crime. The 2 are not related .


This.

The second crime occurred because the prison system inadequately cared for the prisoner. I'm sure it has happened for other prisoners too.
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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby find_bruce » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:38 am

While it is easy to blame the prison system, our prison populations are rising, but building and running prisons are expensive ($292 per prisoner per day) & we are not spending the money on increasing our prison capacity - which means more & more prisoners are sharing cells. There is a strong correlation between prison assaults and overcrowded prisons. Whether this is due to opportunity, harder to supervise or tension in prisons is open to debate.

Bringing it back to the immediate relevance, one of the opportunities for us in wanting tougher penalties for people who kill & injure cyclists is to explore what can be done to deter & punish offenders that doesn't involve the massive community expense of gaol - Mr Irvine's 9 month sentence would cost the community around $80,000.

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby Mububban » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:58 am

All us cyclists try to be "cyclist aware" whenever we're behind the wheel, but even so, I'm honest enough to admit that every now and then, I'll get surprised by someone on 2 wheels that I normally would have noticed earlier. A careful driver with a spotless record can still kill someone with one split second of inattention at the wrong time and wrong place.

I've never come close to hitting anyone or made them swerve or do an emergency stop, but it always serves to remind me to always be vigilant.

If I met someone who I considered "a good everyday person" who had just killed my wife or my child with their vehicle, who expressed total sincere remorse that I believed was genuine, would I still want them jailed? I honestly don't know.

But I do know that lots of drivers do not give two sh**s about us cyclists, and actively cheer whenever one of us "gets taken out". So do you give those drivers a free pass?
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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby jules21 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:59 pm

find_bruce wrote:Bringing it back to the immediate relevance, one of the opportunities for us in wanting tougher penalties for people who kill & injure cyclists is to explore what can be done to deter & punish offenders that doesn't involve the massive community expense of gaol - Mr Irvine's 9 month sentence would cost the community around $80,000.

license suspension/loss

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby find_bruce » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:52 pm

find_bruce wrote:Bringing it back to the immediate relevance, one of the opportunities for us in wanting tougher penalties for people who kill & injure cyclists is to explore what can be done to deter & punish offenders that doesn't involve the massive community expense of gaol - Mr Irvine's 9 month sentence would cost the community around $80,000.
jules21 wrote:license suspension/loss

Drive whilst disqualified is the 3rd most common criminal offence in NSW, with 12,748 offences, behind drink driving 20,040 and Common assault 15,543. (from BoSCAR)

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby bychosis » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:20 am

jules21 wrote:
find_bruce wrote:Bringing it back to the immediate relevance, one of the opportunities for us in wanting tougher penalties for people who kill & injure cyclists is to explore what can be done to deter & punish offenders that doesn't involve the massive community expense of gaol - Mr Irvine's 9 month sentence would cost the community around $80,000.

license suspension/loss

When combined with weekend detention, home detention, community service etc. licence suspension only works for the few that don't actually drive during the suspension and even then it isn't much of a punishment for killing someone.
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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby jules21 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:42 am

find_bruce wrote:Drive whilst disqualified is the 3rd most common criminal offence in NSW, with 12,748 offences, behind drink driving 20,040 and Common assault 15,543. (from BoSCAR)

oh I know they keep driving. but I don't understand how the solution is to let them keep their licences.

"we've reduced the frequency of driving while licence suspended by 37%"
"how?"
"we stopped suspending their licenses"

oldest trick in the book

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby jules21 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:44 am

bychosis wrote:even then it isn't much of a punishment for killing someone.

it's not a punishment. it's a protection* for other other road users. other measures serve as punishment.

*it doesn't work at the moment, but that should mean additional measures are called for, not giving up

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:02 pm

What the penalty is for a particular action is always going to be debatable. Ultimately we want the action to be prevented in the first place and having a penalty in place for performing an action acts as a deterrent to performing that action. I'm thinking that part of the problem is a lack of awareness as to what the penalty is for that action
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby jules21 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:49 pm

mikesbytes wrote:having a penalty in place for performing an action acts as a deterrent to performing that action.

that's true bit it's also known to be pretty ineffective. people are known to often disregard a penalty if they don't believe it will be applied to them. I agree on your point about preventing crimes in the first place. the truth is we don't have any really effective options for this. court actions and penalties are a bit for show. if I was a victim, I'd certainly rate them as important so I'm not saying let people get away with stuff, but they're of limited benefit in reducing crime rates. (not no benefit - let me be clear)

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby London Boy » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:04 pm

Derny Driver wrote:Its not my problem what happens in gaol.

Actually it is very much your problem. It is everyone's problem. The sentence is imprisonment, not being murdered or being turned into a vegetable. If being in prison is that dangerous, we need to spend more money on it so it is safer.

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby London Boy » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:11 pm

find_bruce wrote:Bringing it back to the immediate relevance, one of the opportunities for us in wanting tougher penalties for people who kill & injure cyclists is to explore what can be done to deter & punish offenders that doesn't involve the massive community expense of gaol - Mr Irvine's 9 month sentence would cost the community around $80,000.

What I was taught at law school was that the penalty itself is far less important as a deterrent than the likelihood of being caught.

What is really going on is that people, being people, look for revenge and that equates to heavier sentences. Gaol time. And one problem with that is the recidivism rates associated with prison, particularly where the idea of punishment trumps the idea of rehabilitation. Prison is good at turning out better (worse) criminals.

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:36 pm

That's because the suffering that the victim endures is usually harsher than what the perpetrator receives.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby outnabike » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:45 am

London Boy wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:Its not my problem what happens in gaol.

Actually it is very much your problem. It is everyone's problem. The sentence is imprisonment, not being murdered or being turned into a vegetable. If being in prison is that dangerous, we need to spend more money on it so it is safer.


I reckon your right, but it is not our problem all the way. I mean they are crap people in the jail because they were crap out side it. Then they develop a system of retribution among themselves that only deranged fools can accept.
A thief is honorable, a dobber is a dog, police are pigs Levels of ok or not ok.

But in the courts none of the same ideologies are, or can be applied to them. they all plead innocence and the public wrings their hand collectively.
Putting folks away in goal doesn't seem to work as a deterrent and not as a turner out of nice folk either.

Are we now going to be blamed for crims carrying on as crims in goals? Maybe we should have more isolation in nice little flats so the poor dears don't harm them selves.
Mean while their victims are six feet under, mums and dads are crying, and not long now and the perpetrator will be free to recommence his activities.
For mine, I don't car if he comes out a new man or not. But the reason he is not, shouldn't be put back on the victims, which is society. It is not our fault that these guys and gals fail to live correctly.
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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby redsonic » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:27 am

There is an interesting article (again on ABC News website) about how prisons are stuck 100 years in the past, but are about to evolve with new technology:
Link

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Re: Driver Jailed for Killing Cyclist Badly Brain Damaged After Being Bashed in Jail

Postby outnabike » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:17 pm

I like it.....an inmate spills a bit of water on the thing and Zap! The bracelet thinks he was jumping into a river to escape....... :)

Litigation paradise.... :)
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