Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

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find_bruce
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Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby find_bruce » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:51 am

5 cyclists have been injured in Brisbane, including 1 with "critical head injuries", caused by a car doing a u-turn

I am appalled that the Queensland Ambulance Service is already supplying excuses for the car driver, saying it was an accident and that he was blinded by the sun.

Here's a thought - if you can't see oncoming traffic because you are blinded by the sun, don't do a u-turn!

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby silentC » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:53 am

Yes heard that on the radio this morning. They were careful to mention the sun-blinding excuse.
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby Toyopet » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:33 am

And the victim blaming has already started. This, from a local resident.

Mr Veerman said the road was very popular with cyclists.

"Especially Friday mornings, Saturday mornings, hundreds of them travel down here at incredible speed," he said.

"It's just an accident waiting to happen."


(As per this morning's Brisbane Times article)

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby biker jk » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:01 am

It just highlights the role played by the police and other officials in promoting our car centric culture. To the point that moronic driving is excused as an accident.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby K2 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:07 am

Worst attempt at a u-turn ever? It's almost in the gutter and hasn't yet reached the half way point of the turn. Perhaps just another twelve point turn...

QAS spokesman reported to have said, "What we do know is the car was essentially turning out onto the road and didn't have visibility of the cyclists." Read "Didn't look" [It was not a lone cyclist}, "Can't judge trajectories" [They often think they move at light speed whilst the bike is at walking pace], "Didn't care" [Bingo], etc...it occurred on a straight section.

Graphic images show the result of serious impact. :cry:

All the best and a speedy recovery to all those involved.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby silentC » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:44 am

And so the amateur forensics begin... I really should not read the comments section on these news sites. Apparently, because the panel damage is mostly on the side of the car, it indicates the cyclists rode into the car and so therefore it was their fault. When you have absolute morons who think like that on the road, what hope have we got? I really do think we are getting collectively dumber as a species.
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby RonK » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:12 am

Dornoch Terrace runs from the top of Highgate Hill. It is part of the very popular river ride and literally hundreds of cyclist would ride it most mornings. It is a traditional Brisbane ride, has been for many years - a bit like Beach Road in Melbs I guess.

There is a 20% grade for several hundred metres before flattening slightly. By then I would spin out of my gears and would be doing 60kph. If a driver did a u-turn in front of me I'd have no chance of stopping.
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby tabb » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:40 am

Toyopet wrote:And the victim blaming has already started. This, from a local resident.

Mr Veerman said the road was very popular with cyclists.

"Especially Friday mornings, Saturday mornings, hundreds of them travel down here at incredible speed," he said.

"It's just an accident waiting to happen."


(As per this morning's Brisbane Times article)


How I love that line. The silly old c... pouring his cup of tea every morning is also an accident waiting to happen isn't it? But if everyone does the right thing then of course there's no "accident". Morons.

This is the same section of road where they are merging two bus stops, apparently after a complaint from a wealthy resident that didn't want a bus stop outside their million-dollar house. Maybe the residents would prefer they give up street parking on one side of the road for dedicated bike lanes given there is no alternative route through that section?

Old mate in the car is lucky it wasn't a bus coming down their at full-speed that he turned in front of. I guess that would be just as excusable given the sun in his eyes defence already offered.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby uart » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:32 pm

Toyopet wrote:And the victim blaming has already started. This, from a local resident.

Mr Veerman said the road was very popular with cyclists.

"Especially Friday mornings, Saturday mornings, hundreds of them travel down here at incredible speed," he said.

"It's just an accident waiting to happen."


How I love that line. The silly old c... pouring his cup of tea every morning is also an accident waiting to happen isn't it?


Yes, and if he was behind them in his car he would probably complain that they would be going too slow.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby g-boaf » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:48 pm

uart wrote:
Toyopet wrote:And the victim blaming has already started. This, from a local resident.

Mr Veerman said the road was very popular with cyclists.

"Especially Friday mornings, Saturday mornings, hundreds of them travel down here at incredible speed," he said.

"It's just an accident waiting to happen."


How I love that line. The silly old c... pouring his cup of tea every morning is also an accident waiting to happen isn't it?


Yes, and if he was behind them in his car he would probably complain that they would be going too slow.


I suppose they should all just be pottering along with a walking frame.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:59 pm

A nasty crash and I hope that the riders can all recover completely.

With big events it is human nature to want to understand why and quickly get answers so the media take on this role and speculate and interview people and get them to speculate.

The best case is when the police are thorough and the entire event can be understood when it comes to repercussions / fines / charges.


When it comes to creating safer infrastructure, would double-lines (No - U-Turn) be more appropriate if visibility of other road users is diminished?

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby BJL » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:17 pm

AUbicycles wrote:With big events it is human nature to want to understand why and quickly get answers so the media take on this role and speculate and interview people and get them to speculate.


I don't think many people want to understand at all and probably couldn't care less about any answers. I just saw this on Channel 7 news Melbourne and the first thing that comes out is 'cyclists collide with car'. All the media and authorities want to do is blame cyclists regardless of the circumstances and paint cycling in a bad way. I bet the idiot wouldn't have done a U-turn in front of a another car, bus or truck.

:evil:

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby fat and old » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:52 pm

AUbicycles wrote:

When it comes to creating safer infrastructure, would double-lines (No - U-Turn) be more appropriate if visibility of other road users is diminished?


I really think that anyone who'd turn without being able to see would just cross them anyway.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby g-boaf » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:45 pm

AUbicycles wrote:A nasty crash and I hope that the riders can all recover completely.

With big events it is human nature to want to understand why and quickly get answers so the media take on this role and speculate and interview people and get them to speculate.

The best case is when the police are thorough and the entire event can be understood when it comes to repercussions / fines / charges.


When it comes to creating safer infrastructure, would double-lines (No - U-Turn) be more appropriate if visibility of other road users is diminished?


Double lines don't stop U turns. Physical barriers do - median strips and or fences in the middle of the road. Fences on top of the medians are good, stops trucks and SUVs as well.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:04 pm

g-boaf wrote:Double lines don't stop U turns. Physical barriers do


Double Lines don't stop illegal U-turns, but I would argue that the majority of drivers would avoid doing a U-turn where it is not allowed so would make a difference. For infrastructure, cyclists need to be considered but with the car society we are in, infrastructure changes would predominantly affect motorists.

For this (probably avoidable) incident - is the stretch a dangerous area where better traffic management and infrastructure is necessary because of ongoing risk or is is really an isolated incident that is about driver carelessness (etc)?

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby TheWall » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:57 pm

Pretty much like any descent in an urban area I would say so an isolated incident would be my guess...with one proviso. It is the main recreational bike route in Brisbane and people ride it as they are avoiding busy roads - therefore being considerate of other road users by staying off arterial roads.

Bikes travel down that hill no faster than cars (60 speed limit?) and like most areas you have to be fully aware of what may be coming out of driveways, side roads etc.

Acknowledging the volume of cyclists with better signage and infrastructure would be a useful hazard reduction excercise.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby CKinnard » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:33 pm

I haven't done a river loop in about 2.5 years. It gets very boring after the 300th time, and there's lower traffic more scenic rides further out of Bris.

But I recall and google map confirmed the speed limit down Dornoch is 50kph and there's bicycles painted on the road pretty regularly along the shoulder, incidentally a shoulder full of parked cars.

When I used to ride it I didn't let my speed build much beyond 50 cos there are too many side streets, and too many impulsive young people living in the area (in addition to arrogant older people). Nevertheless, it was common for cyclists to hurtle down there at 60+ leaving themselves no Plan B in case of the unexpected.

There's no excuse for doing a u-turn anywhere without due attention, let alone across the path of traffic traveling down a steep hill. But there you go. I know a lot of Masters cyclists whose necks are so stiff with arthritis they can't do a shoulder check....and it is no doubt the same when they are in the car.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby Comedian » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:42 am

CKinnard wrote:There's no excuse for doing a u-turn anywhere without due attention, let alone across the path of traffic traveling down a steep hill. But there you go. I know a lot of Masters cyclists whose necks are so stiff with arthritis they can't do a shoulder check....and it is no doubt the same when they are in the car.


A few points on this in the way of clarification.

The accident was at the bottom of the hill on the flat-ish section so speeds are typically lower, and unless you're on it would be legal speed or less. The last time I went through there I was doing 38 by means of reference.

The car that u-turned in front of them did not have them coming from behind... he was on the opposite side of the road. The poor cyclists struck the left of the car. He didn't have to bend his neck.. they were right in front of him. If the sun made it difficult for him to see it was his responsibility to perform the manoeuvre in a safe fashion.. or somewhere else.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/five-cyclists-hurt-one-serious-in-west-end-crash-20170824-gy3sl5.html

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby ball bearing » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:52 am

The ambo person who speculated about the sun being the reason for the incident needs an official warning to keep his trap shut.

This terrible incident underscores the importance of running a very bright front flashing light. Perhaps the cyclists were well lit and the idiot driver somehow did not see them, I don't know, but I always light myself up just to even the odds a bit.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby AUbicycles » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:59 pm

Good lighting helps, but is is possible that it was simply a careless u-turn. Split-second decision to rapidly turn.

It is early morning, not many people around or cars on the road and the concentration down.

A careless decision for a fast u-turn without properly checking. If it was a slow cautious u-turn, which is suitable to the conditions (Mr Ambulance spokesman says the sun may have been blinding) I would argue that riders would have then had time to spot the slower and cautious turn and had more time to slow and avoid.


I truely hope that the riders are all ok.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby CKinnard » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:33 pm

Comedian wrote:The car that u-turned in front of them did not have them coming from behind... he was on the opposite side of the road. The poor cyclists struck the left of the car. He didn't have to bend his neck.. they were right in front of him. If the sun made it difficult for him to see it was his responsibility to perform the manoeuvre in a safe fashion.. or somewhere else.


All that needs to be clarified is the speed of the cyclists.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby uart » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:52 pm

CKinnard wrote:
Comedian wrote:The car that u-turned in front of them did not have them coming from behind... he was on the opposite side of the road. The poor cyclists struck the left of the car. He didn't have to bend his neck.. they were right in front of him. If the sun made it difficult for him to see it was his responsibility to perform the manoeuvre in a safe fashion.. or somewhere else.


All that needs to be clarified is the speed of the cyclists.


Probably not speeding though. The section where they were hit (and the 200m leading up to it) are only about 3 to 4 percent gradient according to google earth.

This is the view from the drivers perspective just before he turned into the path of the cyclists coming the other way. : https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-27.487 ... 312!8i6656

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby K2 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:31 pm

That's on the lower section after the Boundary St overpass...nowhere near the big drop off the hill. I suspect most folk can reach the 50k speed limit at the bottom of the big drop. I'm at the upper end of the age range for this group and usually sit up going down to keep beneath it. On a good day I can maintain 40ish along the flat and get back up towards the limit past this point if I'm pushing hard. Sometimes get overtaken [just] by a few blokes on very nice bikes, and no doubt with much better legs who are really pushing it, but the vast majority are doing well below the limit here. [Heaps of folk need a bit of a rest before the start of the Highgate Hill descent. They're cactus after coming up past the cemetery and the other side of the hill is enough to get them back into the red, with a breather on the side of the road a necessity before they can even contemplate going down. None of them have much left to push with along here.]

I've only ridden in and done the loop or part thereof about a dozen times in the last year. I only head into the city if the wind has a northerly flavour as I need the assistance on the way home. :oops: Even though it's early morning on the weekend, in those limited times I can recall twice having to take evasive action along this section for vehicles turning [or threatening to] and another couple of times doing the same for vehicles coming out of properties/parking. This is despite having taken the lane where necessary [speed/parked vehicles]. But that's pretty standard for much of the inner city area. Spidey senses set to max or don't bother.

When last in a few weeks ago on the weekend of the big run through Southbank and surrounds, I was tailgated [super closely] by a very important person from pretty much this point into Ganges St where his magnificence finally managed to use every bit of acceleration he could squeeze out of his "smells like it could do with a tune-up" vehicle to complete a dangerous overtake just before the corner onto Hoogley St. He immediately turned right into Drake St with me all of 10 metres behind after having braked for the corner only because of him. But fair dues....he's yet another winner!

Regarding the sun in the eyes excuse/speculation - Could it actually have been an issue 10 minutes after sunrise with the hill/buildings/trees between this point and the east? I left home just on the forecast sunrise time on Saturday and didn't get a glimpse of the rising sun until I was 20 minutes towards the coast, on the bridge with a clear view east across the Albert river's floodplain.

Anyway, a prediction:- The local constabulary to respond appropriately to all the publicity after yet another accident on this "notorious" stretch [According to the RACQ spokeslady on the ABC TV news..."around" 6 incidents involving cyclists within the last ten years within a hundred metres of this spot...inevitably with the motorist at fault in all the cases they've looked at according to Ben Wilson of Bicycle QLD on 7 News.] by setting up speed cameras to target...you guessed it...those with fewer wheels, and possibly a bell check just for good measure. You know it makes sense.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby BJL » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:53 pm

I call BS on the sun excuse.

As I posted earlier, I bet he would not have attempted a U-turn (Or right hand turn into a driveway as reported on other forums) if he could not see what was coming in the opposite direction. He would not have made such a turn in front of another car, truck or bus. Therefore I think he saw the cyclists and didn't wait. Either he misjudged the speed of the cyclists or is just an arrogant prick who couldn't handle having to wait for those 'beneath' him. He was probably more in shock at the damage to his car and how he was going to get around while it was being repaired and who was going to pay for it.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby outnabike » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:28 am

I know an intersection with a food outlet on a corner. The drive way out of it is close to an intersection. Double lines face the driver on exit and they ought to turn left and go around the block.
I can tell you honestly that 90% just turn left across the double white lines to get into the intersection. It is not a problem and a standard practice. Often they sit and block the road waiting to push into a line of traffic. :roll:
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