Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

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Comedian
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby Comedian » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:50 pm

BJL wrote:I call BS on the sun excuse.

As I posted earlier, I bet he would not have attempted a U-turn (Or right hand turn into a driveway as reported on other forums) if he could not see what was coming in the opposite direction. He would not have made such a turn in front of another car, truck or bus. Therefore I think he saw the cyclists and didn't wait. Either he misjudged the speed of the cyclists or is just an arrogant prick who couldn't handle having to wait for those 'beneath' him. He was probably more in shock at the damage to his car and how he was going to get around while it was being repaired and who was going to pay for it.


Yep... standard SMIDSY. The driver has done a silly move without looking and hit a cyclist (or in this case 5!) and the cops show up. The first question they ask is "Why did you do it". Driver is then on the spot... "aaahh... I didn't see them". Cop goes... "well ok then, easy enough to do!" and they are off the hook...

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CKinnard
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby CKinnard » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:56 pm

uart wrote:Probably not speeding though. The section where they were hit (and the 200m leading up to it) are only about 3 to 4 percent gradient according to google earth.


Not a safe generalization to make.
I know a lot of Brisbane cyclists for which this is their regular training ride, and there's lots of Strava segments on it.
You have to ride the route regularly to understand what goes on.

I was at coffee with friends on Sunday and one of them has a builder mate doing a large job very close to the crash site.
He said there's several construction jobs happening there at the moment, and there's a lack of parking on one side of the street, so there's lots of commercials doing u-turns there trying to get access to the build sites. His mate has been shocked at the speeds the cyclists do past the build sites. I am an avid cyclist, but I also believe in riding to the conditions, with a healthy understanding of human nature and the limits thereof. I express that understanding by riding quieter roads earlier in the morning. Not saying the driver wasn't guilty, but that's small comfort if you get so injured you can never get back on a bike again, or work.

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London Boy
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby London Boy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:54 pm

CKinnard wrote:[...] so there's lots of commercials doing u-turns there trying to get access to the build sites. His mate has been shocked at the speeds the cyclists do past the build sites. I am an avid cyclist, but I also believe in riding to the conditions, [...]

Starts to sound like victim blaming if you're not careful.

I agree that cyclists are almost uniquely vulnerable, so a healthy regard for self-preservation is not just wise, but necessary. However, you do not make the roads safer by excusing the carelessness of all too many motorists. On the contrary, it should be a lot harder than it is to keep hold of a driving licence, by making it a lot easier to lose it. Drive and text? Suspension. Run a red light? Suspension. Break traction? Suspension.

And if the building sites constitute a hazard to road users, they should be signed, speed limits should be reduced for all traffic, and traffic controls put in place to prevent risky manouevres.

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CKinnard
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby CKinnard » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:19 pm

London Boy wrote:And if the building sites constitute a hazard to road users, they should be signed, speed limits should be reduced for all traffic, and traffic controls put in place to prevent risky manouevres.


A smart cyclist will always give himself an out when racing a criterium in a bunch of sharp healthy experienced cyclists! Why?

Self preservation in the face of the unexpected.
No signs, speed limits, or traffic controls required.

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foo on patrol
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:11 am

^^^ Yep but sometimes that's to much to expect these days. :wink: ^^^

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Comedian
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby Comedian » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:46 pm

London Boy wrote:
CKinnard wrote:[...] so there's lots of commercials doing u-turns there trying to get access to the build sites. His mate has been shocked at the speeds the cyclists do past the build sites. I am an avid cyclist, but I also believe in riding to the conditions, [...]

Starts to sound like victim blaming if you're not careful.

I agree that cyclists are almost uniquely vulnerable, so a healthy regard for self-preservation is not just wise, but necessary. However, you do not make the roads safer by excusing the carelessness of all too many motorists. On the contrary, it should be a lot harder than it is to keep hold of a driving licence, by making it a lot easier to lose it. Drive and text? Suspension. Run a red light? Suspension. Break traction? Suspension.

And if the building sites constitute a hazard to road users, they should be signed, speed limits should be reduced for all traffic, and traffic controls put in place to prevent risky manouevres.

Turns out I know one of the riders.. he posted a photo of his broken leg. He's a pretty careful guy.. you can only anticipate so much.. sometimes gross stupidity (motorist) catches the best of us out.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby Usernoname » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:59 pm

find_bruce wrote:I am appalled that the Queensland Ambulance Service is already supplying excuses for the car driver, saying it was an accident and that he was blinded by the sun.

I went out for a ride today on the roadie, first for a while, beautiful day here on the Gold Coast. 4 close passes, 2 dangerous. When the 1m rule came in I noticed behavior was much better. Gone backwards a lot about only 1/3 of traffic passed legally. Had someone do a U turn in front of me, I was heading downhill and could see it happening so braked early. I wonder if the media had reported - Illegal U turns causes carnage, driver likely to be charged with GBH - would this driver had thought before the U turn instead of the shite that has been reported.

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outnabike
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby outnabike » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:19 pm

Here is that example as per above.

Imagevlcsnap-2017-08-29-13h31m35s764 by Paul Klat, on Flickr
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CKinnard
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby CKinnard » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:07 pm

Comedian wrote:Turns out I know one of the riders.. he posted a photo of his broken leg. He's a pretty careful guy.. you can only anticipate so much.. sometimes gross stupidity (motorist) catches the best of us out.


I thought you'd know one or more of them Comedian. You know a lot of riders.
Maybe this guy can advise what speed he was doing some time after he gets home.
I'd be interested if just to know what speed does that much damage to the side of a car.

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London Boy
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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby London Boy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:40 pm

CKinnard wrote:A smart cyclist will always give himself an out when racing a criterium in a bunch of sharp healthy experienced cyclists! Why?

Self preservation in the face of the unexpected.
No signs, speed limits, or traffic controls required.

Yes, but there's just a tiny, tiny, tiny little difference between competition and daily riding. In the one, you expect some cut and thrust; in the other, you expect that others will drive safely. Don't blame the victim.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby CKinnard » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:23 pm

London Boy wrote:Yes, but there's just a tiny, tiny, tiny little difference between competition and daily riding. In the one, you expect some cut and thrust; in the other, you expect that others will drive safely. Don't blame the victim.


ABS stats on leading causes of death of 15-24yo's might change your expectations.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby warthog1 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:52 pm

The fact remains, that it is unlikely they were breaking the speed limit and what sort a f'wit does a u turn when they can't see?

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby human909 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:24 am

Riding to the conditions? Sounds like the conditions was a free and open road with little traffic about... Nothing ahead, nothing behind, no dogs or children about to run into the road.... oh crud! That stopped car on the opposite side of the road as just accelerated and moved blocking my entire lane 10m in front of me!

Sure maybe all 5 cyclists were staring at their stems for 50m and their lack of awareness was the issue.. But I doubt that... Some things are pretty much just some idiots fault. Sure some mitigation in hindsight is usually possible but hindsight is 20/20.

I had a taxi driver run a stop sign at speed into me. Once I had visual on him and could see he wasn't stopping it was too late. I was driving at 40or50 on a major road with. Sure I could travel at 15kph on all major roads but that isn't how reality works...

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby RobertL » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:51 am

Comedian wrote:Turns out I know one of the riders.. he posted a photo of his broken leg. He's a pretty careful guy.. you can only anticipate so much.. sometimes gross stupidity (motorist) catches the best of us out.


I don't know any of them but I saw a facebook post by one of the riding group. He said that he was behind the group that got hit, and that there were other members of the group in front of them. So the car must have seen those first cyclists go past before turning into the path of the second lot of cyclists - hitting them.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby CKinnard » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:29 am

warthog1 wrote:The fact remains, that it is unlikely they were breaking the speed limit and what sort a f'wit does a u turn when they can't see?


Wartie, my nuance isn't whether they were breaking the speed limit, which few cyclists do...but whether the situation justified wiping more speed off than usual, and higher vigilance. i.e. as in several active construction sites. I am not saying the driver wasn't an 'impulsive testosterone fueled sufferer of ADHD'. Based on his car mods, I am sure he tended that way, but there's no law against being a fwit or driving like one, until the damage is done. Several long term commuters I know talk about developing a 6th sense, which they have come to rely on for the number of 'unexpected' sticky situations it has kept them out of. I am on the same page as them, rather than expecting others to drive safely at all times.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby K2 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:36 am

CKinnard wrote:
Comedian wrote:Turns out I know one of the riders.. he posted a photo of his broken leg. He's a pretty careful guy.. you can only anticipate so much.. sometimes gross stupidity (motorist) catches the best of us out.


I thought you'd know one or more of them Comedian. You know a lot of riders.
Maybe this guy can advise what speed he was doing some time after he gets home.
I'd be interested if just to know what speed does that much damage to the side of a car.


Wow! :shock:

Just.... Wow.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby antigee » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:04 am

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 4yvmd.html

possibly 47km/hr if you read down a bit

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby fat and old » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:33 pm

antigee wrote:https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/greens-councillor-says-west-end-crash-cyclists-were-going-too-fast-20170829-p4yvmd.html

possibly 47km/hr if you read down a bit


What's interesting in that article is the headline

Greens councillor says West End crash cyclists were going 'too fast'


I didn't think Victim Blaming was a green's thing :shock:

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby biker jk » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm

fat and old wrote:
antigee wrote:https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/greens-councillor-says-west-end-crash-cyclists-were-going-too-fast-20170829-p4yvmd.html

possibly 47km/hr if you read down a bit


What's interesting in that article is the headline

Greens councillor says West End crash cyclists were going 'too fast'


I didn't think Victim Blaming was a green's thing :shock:


Perhaps the Greens councillor didn't see any votes in defending what she saw as Mamil conservative voters? But if it was a fixie riding demographic (with no front brake) then clearly a victim?

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby Cyclophiliac » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:12 pm

fat and old wrote:
antigee wrote:https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/greens-councillor-says-west-end-crash-cyclists-were-going-too-fast-20170829-p4yvmd.html

possibly 47km/hr if you read down a bit


What's interesting in that article is the headline

Greens councillor says West End crash cyclists were going 'too fast'


I didn't think Victim Blaming was a green's thing :shock:

No, but it is an Australian thing, and the Greens councillor is Australian, or I certainly hope so, anyway: do double-citizenship laws apply to shire councillors? :lol:

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby fat and old » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:39 pm

biker jk wrote:
fat and old wrote:
antigee wrote:https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/greens-councillor-says-west-end-crash-cyclists-were-going-too-fast-20170829-p4yvmd.html

possibly 47km/hr if you read down a bit


What's interesting in that article is the headline

Greens councillor says West End crash cyclists were going 'too fast'


I didn't think Victim Blaming was a green's thing :shock:


Perhaps the Greens councillor didn't see any votes in defending what she saw as Mamil conservative voters? But if it was a fixie riding demographic (with no front brake) then clearly a victim?


Surprising that you assume the green is female. The fella does have a favorite scarf to be photographed with (much the same as female reporters like to wear a head covering at any opportunity, or a 55 pocket action man vest in Khaki if you're a bloke.....just to make sure we know they're hip to it all :lol: )....... but he's a he.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby biker jk » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:46 pm

fat and old wrote:
biker jk wrote:
fat and old wrote:
What's interesting in that article is the headline



I didn't think Victim Blaming was a green's thing :shock:


Perhaps the Greens councillor didn't see any votes in defending what she saw as Mamil conservative voters? But if it was a fixie riding demographic (with no front brake) then clearly a victim?


Surprising that you assume the green is female. The fella does have a favorite scarf to be photographed with (much the same as female reporters like to wear a head covering at any opportunity, or a 55 pocket action man vest in Khaki if you're a bloke.....just to make sure we know they're hip to it all :lol: )....... but he's a he.


A non-binary he?

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby fat and old » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:25 pm

:lol: :lol:

I'm gonna get smashed for that :cry:

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby RobertL » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:19 pm

fat and old wrote:
antigee wrote:https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/greens-councillor-says-west-end-crash-cyclists-were-going-too-fast-20170829-p4yvmd.html

possibly 47km/hr if you read down a bit


What's interesting in that article is the headline

Greens councillor says West End crash cyclists were going 'too fast'


I didn't think Victim Blaming was a green's thing :shock:



He has come out today and clarified/retracted his remarks. He is on the record as wanting to reduce all of the speed limits in his ward to 40km/h apart from a couple of major arterial roads. He claims that his interjection in the council meeting was along those lines - that the speed limit is too high on that street.

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Re: Cyclist seriously injured in Brisbane

Postby warthog1 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:36 pm

CKinnard wrote:
warthog1 wrote:The fact remains, that it is unlikely they were breaking the speed limit and what sort a f'wit does a u turn when they can't see?


Wartie, my nuance isn't whether they were breaking the speed limit, which few cyclists do...but whether the situation justified wiping more speed off than usual, and higher vigilance. i.e. as in several active construction sites. I am not saying the driver wasn't an 'impulsive testosterone fueled sufferer of ADHD'. Based on his car mods, I am sure he tended that way, but there's no law against being a fwit or driving like one, until the damage is done. Several long term commuters I know talk about developing a 6th sense, which they have come to rely on for the number of 'unexpected' sticky situations it has kept them out of. I am on the same page as them, rather than expecting others to drive safely at all times.


Yes I ride defensively too and I also enjoy bunch riding. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.
Perhaps riding in a bunch they understandably considered themselves more visible and thus less prone to the risk of stupid behaviour like they encountered?
My point is the burden of responsibility rests heavily with the person operating the potentially lethal piece of machinery to operate it in a safe manner.
Performing a u-turn blind is not operating it in a safe manner and in what sort of a society does it become socially acceptable to give that as a factor mitigating fault for the driver? It multiplies it imo :x

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