The danger from behind - better light

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6092
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

The danger from behind - better light

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:15 pm

It has seemed to me for some time that the most common danger of serious injury or death in cycling is the driver from behind. An innatentive driver fromn behind is almost impossible to defend yourself against.

Outrageously bright "my pencil is bigger than yours" front lights are a dime a dozen, I have been unsuccessful in finding a light suitable to make be highly visible from behind. What I want (apart from low cost and ready recharging) is a flashing light with a very VERY high intesity over a WIDE angle, not just a super bright 1 degree beam that never ppoints exactly to the driver approaching me. Say, 15 degrees or more and a few degrees in elevation

Is there such a beast?

PS Look at htis one. A bloke run over, apparently from behind, IN A LOW SPEED CEMETARY! If a rider can be unnoticedc in a 20kph cemetary then what chance do we have?
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/cyclist-dead-after-crash-in-sutherland-cemetery/news-story/5e885d27d8e97429d14292570552a930
news.com.au
Cyclist dead after crash in Woronora Memorial Park
Shaya Laughlin and Sally Rawsthorne
3 minutes

A CYCLIST and father-of-two who died after being struck by a car at a Sutherland cemetery this morning has been identified as 39-year-old Ron Doolan.

A FATHER on his morning bike ride through a southern Sydney cemetery was tragically killed after being struck by a car.

Emergency services were called to the Woronora Memorial Park yesterday shortly before 7am and found Ron Doolan, 39, trapped underneath a Toyota Corolla.

The father of two from nearby Como died at the scene.

The area was cordoned off and a crime scene established.

“His phone keeps ringing off the hook so I dare say his family is looking for him,” Sutherland Duty Officer Inspector Chris Hill said.

Mr Doolan was identified by his distraught sister a few hours later after a police rescue team freed him from underneath the car.

Police officers opened the body bag and she gave him a kiss on the forehead in a final, emotional goodbye.

Meanwhile the car’s 29-year-old driver was taken to Sutherland Hospital for tests and then provided detectives with a statement at the Sutherland Police Station.

It is understood the cyclist and the driver were travelling in the same direction in one of the cemetery’s small streets when they collided.

No one has been charged.

“We’re investigating the circumstances around the pushbike rider’s death,” Insp Hill said.

“We’re speaking with his family to try and find out his movements and why he was here.

“But given the clothing that he was wearing, he appears to be a regular Sunday morning bike rider.

“This may have been part of his regular route — we don’t know.”

A Go Fund Me page has been launched to raise funds for Mr Doolan’s grieving family.

“The Doolan family have lost their beloved Ron,” wrote Lisa and Adam Mulhall.

“The man that would do anything for anyone. We don’t always know how to express our love and appreciation for someone so this is for everyone that loves the Doolans to give back to a man that gave so much.”

Thousands protest to evacuate Manus men

Police were yesterday speaking with a witness and called for any others to come forward.

Southern Metropolitan Cemeteries Trust chief executive officer Graham Boyd said they believed speed was not a factor in the crash.

“We reinforce the speed limit of 20km/h,” he said.

“This has never happened before.”

Originally published as Dad killed in cemetery crash identified
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

User avatar
Mububban
Posts: 1369
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Mububban » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:44 pm

Some contenders in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=96535
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

User avatar
kb
Posts: 2440
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby kb » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:00 am

https://fullbeam.com.au/products/nitefl ... -australia

I have the previous edition but it’s fantastic if you can stomach the price. Over 180° spread, bright and good battery life.
Image

User avatar
find_bruce
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7699
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby find_bruce » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:03 am

With modern red leds, the technical requirements are trivial 2.2V, 0.5A will give you a very bright light. The nightflux is a very good product - and for the price it would want to be.

Low cost, ready recharging and flashing are easy, something like the Lezyne micro - currently $22 from pushys. There are numerous similar lights,
Image

70 RED lumens is nice & bright - a single spectrum light will appear as bright as a white light with 4-5 times the lumens. When you understand that a '1,000 lumen" cheapo light is actually around 500-600 lumens, you get the idea.

To get high intensity over a WIDE angle is to add one of these
Image
Easier to fit over that sort of rear light US$1.10 shouldn't break the bank :D

Arbuckle23
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:07 pm
Location: Mornington Peninsula

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Arbuckle23 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:39 am

I have a Cygolite Hotshot 50.
You can make it very bright during the day and turn it down a bit for the dark.
Happy with the visibility it provides me.

It maybe just a placebo effect, but makes me feel good :)

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 10247
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby RonK » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:54 am

Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

slowK
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:46 pm

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby slowK » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:37 am

kb wrote:https://fullbeam.com.au/products/niteflux-red-zone-8-500-lumen-rear-light-made-in-australia

I have the previous edition but it’s fantastic if you can stomach the price. Over 180° spread, bright and good battery life.


Was going to post the same, but kb beat me to it. Have the old version (red zone 4, less output than the 8). A bit DIY-looking, but so bright - I don't even use the brightest setting. The new version looks a lot more schmick.

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 13087
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney & Frankfurt
Contact:

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:40 am

A tragic collision and being hit from behind is a nightmare scenario. Psychologically a vehicle ahead is something you can see and have a better change of attempting to avoid being hit.

For a rear light, I like flashing lights which capture more attention from a motorist. With a steady light it is easier to judge but also hypothetically more likely for a driver to be over confident because the 'situation is known'. This is a higher risk for the rider.

In contrast, a flashing light, particularly with an unusual flashing pattern adds more uncertainty for the driver - there is a sense of urgency or unknown and I would argue that a driver coming from behind is more likely to give more space.

For bunch rides, bright and obnoxious rear lights are less suited and because a bunch is a larger group car drivers tend to give more space in a bunch than when passing a single cyclist.

User avatar
Cycleops70
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Cycleops70 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:10 am

I've been using a Magicshine MJ-818 for a few years now & i 'feel' it has been quite effective (it managed to get the attention of a young lady using a tablet at the wheel, just in time for her to swerve into the next lane.

It has 3 settings;
all on continuous
Full flashing
And alternate fleshing, which flashes a normal level light, then a super bright one.

I use the latter.

Example here;
The Magicshine is the light on the bottom. The other 2 are normal Knog types.

https://youtu.be/7GoFEBoasRk

User avatar
Mububban
Posts: 1369
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Mububban » Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:05 am

I always run my front and rear lights in flashing mode, only constant on for the front on dark early mornings. Personally, my eye gets drawn to a cyclist's flashing lights in a sea of constantly on car lights very easily, differentiating them.

Yesterday I clearly saw the bright flashing front light of a cyclist approaching me from a long way off, when nothing else about his dark coloured bike, clothes, helmet or backpack would have really "grabbed" my eye quickly until I was much closer.
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

User avatar
Toyopet
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Toyopet » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:36 pm

The PDW Radbot is very bright and has an eye-catching flash pattern (the 1000 model, not the 500). Some of the new Bontrager lights are seriously bright too. Also, a bright helmet mounted light can provide advance notice of your presence to drivers further back in the traffic.

I have two main fears regarding vehicles approaching from behind:
1. Riding into the sun, where drivers approaching from behind are blinded by the sun and have compromised visibility. Best to avoid riding into the sun, or have an amazingly bright tail light.
2. A 'close shaver' with a tail-gater following them. The tail-gater is likely to clip or hit you. Best to ride wide and force the 'close shaver' to change lanes.

caneye
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:32 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby caneye » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:54 pm

Pushys is having a sale on See Sense products, e.g. See Sense Icon+ rear light. It's bright and has a nice spread too. Also an accelerometer to change the light intensity and flash rate depending on your speed. You can also control the light settings from a mobile phone app.

https://www.pushys.com.au/see-sense-ico ... light.html

also have a look at the lezyne zecto max .. this one is 250lm too and inexpensive ..

https://www.merlincycles.com/lezyne-zec ... 04038.html

User avatar
Comedian
Posts: 5470
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Comedian » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:20 pm

I truly believe that in cases where cyclists are hit behind by drivers of motor vehicles - that it is invariably a case of the motorist being distracted, or in some cases trying for a deliberate close pass. I've no doubt that when the police turn up that "i didn't see the rider" is what drivers say as it is pretty well 100% effective at getting them off without consequences. Hence it gets recorded as a visibility issue.

I really do doubt that running bright rear lights during the day would make any difference - and for night time there are ample rear lights these days that are more than strong enough to be seen by a driver who is watching the road.

One of the people that commutes in my workplace runs a rear light that is flashing red and blue just like a police car. He has found this spectacularly effective at limiting close passing and generally encouraging good motorist behavior. About twice a year he gets pulled by a cop for impersonating police but he gets around this by keeping a copy of the legislation on him that says it's illegal for a vehicle to impersonate a police vehicle - and that a bicycle is not considered a vehicle by that piece of legislation. This may vary state to state.

User avatar
Cycleops70
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:40 pm

Toyopet wrote:1. Riding into the sun, where drivers approaching from behind are blinded by the sun and have compromised visibility. Best to avoid riding into the sun, or have an amazingly bright tail light.


This is one of my fears too. I change my route/time as much as I can to avoid this. And use a flashing mode to create some contrast in those situations.

User avatar
Cycleops70
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56 am
Location: Perth
Contact:

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:49 pm

Comedian wrote:One of the people that commutes in my workplace runs a rear light that is flashing red and blue just like a police car. He has found this spectacularly effective at limiting close passing and generally encouraging good motorist behavior. About twice a year he gets pulled by a cop for impersonating police but he gets around this by keeping a copy of the legislation on him that says it's illegal for a vehicle to impersonate a police vehicle - and that a bicycle is not considered a vehicle by that piece of legislation. This may vary state to state.


That's fantastic!
You might want to let them know that they may not be immune to prosecution though. The authority to display blue flashing lights is issued by the department of transport. This of course could vary (as you say) by state.

But from my experience, in WA, the DoT are difficult to deal with in this respect, but not very active. The transport inspectors may not even know that they have the authority to stop your friend.

User avatar
Comedian
Posts: 5470
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Comedian » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:10 pm

Cycleops70 wrote:
Comedian wrote:One of the people that commutes in my workplace runs a rear light that is flashing red and blue just like a police car. He has found this spectacularly effective at limiting close passing and generally encouraging good motorist behavior. About twice a year he gets pulled by a cop for impersonating police but he gets around this by keeping a copy of the legislation on him that says it's illegal for a vehicle to impersonate a police vehicle - and that a bicycle is not considered a vehicle by that piece of legislation. This may vary state to state.


That's fantastic!
You might want to let them know that they may not be immune to prosecution though. The authority to display blue flashing lights is issued by the department of transport. This of course could vary (as you say) by state.

But from my experience, in WA, the DoT are difficult to deal with in this respect, but not very active. The transport inspectors may not even know that they have the authority to stop your friend.


I think he's reasonably famous for it. He reckons it's well worth the hassle. :mrgreen:

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 13150
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:04 pm

Comedian wrote:I really do doubt that running bright rear lights during the day would make any difference - and for night time there are ample rear lights these days that are more than strong enough to be seen by a driver who is watching the road.

I find that running a rear red flashing light as a daytime running light noticeably reduces the close-pass incident rate. Doesn't reduce it completely though.

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 13150
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby trailgumby » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:06 pm

Comedian wrote:I think he's reasonably famous for it. He reckons it's well worth the hassle. :mrgreen:

He is, I've seen the vids of him getting stopped and arguing his way out of it by showing the legislation. Cops weren't happy - accepted very reluctantly.

User avatar
Comedian
Posts: 5470
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Comedian » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:46 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Comedian wrote:I really do doubt that running bright rear lights during the day would make any difference - and for night time there are ample rear lights these days that are more than strong enough to be seen by a driver who is watching the road.

I find that running a rear red flashing light as a daytime running light noticeably reduces the close-pass incident rate. Doesn't reduce it completely though.

I run a fly6 on full flash day anytime I'm on the bike. It doesn't seem to have stopped close passes for me.. but perhaps there would have been more without it. :oops:

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6092
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:08 pm


Thanks RonK. The casing and banded fitting looks very similar to a Cateye model I used to use a few years back, but presumably a far brighter light these days. Many do not fit well on a unicycle but this one was one of the best.

But why the hell do I want 300 lumens in the front and 150 lumens in the rear when it is so easy and common to already run with a super bright front head light that is blink-capable anyway? I'd like the whole 450 lumens on the rear and pick my own front light for just that purpose. (Rhetorical question directed to the market in general, not to you Ron.)

I'll have to have another look at my LBS but so far every time I have I've found bugger all that are truly wide angle and truly bright.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

User avatar
trailgumby
Posts: 13150
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
Contact:

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby trailgumby » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:48 pm

Comedian wrote:I run a fly6 on full flash day anytime I'm on the bike. It doesn't seem to have stopped close passes for me.. but perhaps there would have been more without it. :oops:

My working hypothesis is that they see me earlier and I'm less of a surprise they suddenly have to deal with.

I still had one fellow in a green Golf speed up after I clearly signalled try to shut me out when I merged behind a bus on Forest Way today. He then sat about a metre off my back wheel as I rolled along waiting for the bus to accelerate. I said nothing but shook my head in disgust. *Then* he decided to toot me in annoyance. :roll:

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6092
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:59 pm

trailgumby wrote:
Comedian wrote:I still had one fellow in a green Golf speed up after I clearly signalled try to shut me out when I merged behind a bus on Forest Way today. He then sat about a metre off my back wheel as I rolled along waiting for the bus to accelerate. I said nothing but shook my head in disgust. *Then* he decided to toot me in annoyance. :roll:


It may be hard for most here to relate but going back some thirty years ago drivers were friendly and obliging to cyclists.

Part of my route to work in peak hour used to be taking off from lights in gently but extended down hill and then having to move from the curb to the right hand lane (2 plus 2 Canning Highway) to get around a bus stop before having to climb a hill about three hundred metres from the lights. I would accelerate hard to about 55 to 60kph for the merge.

Without any exception EVER cars on my right shoulder would allow me the right hand merge. I would have been in serious strife if anyone ever decided to block me out.

And yes, I used to ride on dropped handle bars AND WEARING LYCRA!!!.

To be able to trust your life on such driving would be a totally foreign experience to most on this forum.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 4035
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby Thoglette » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:10 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote: going back some thirty years ago drivers were friendly and obliging to cyclists.


I've been trying to track the "history of hating". It seems to have started (in the papers) somewhere in the mid noughties, with articles in the Herald Sun (Bruce MacDonald 2005-06-22) and SMH (Stephen Gibbs, but sourced from AAMI 2004-12-16) in my collection as the first overtly anti-cycling, logic-free and emotively charged rants. Prior to that I really only have pro-cycling articles in my collection.

Gibbs wrote:The cyclist who tears down the passenger side of Chahine's taxi and swerves straight across its path is lucky the cabbie is quick on the brakes, but he clearly does not see it that way. Lifting one mitt off the handlebar, the rider slams his palm against the taxi's bonnet, turns to glare at Chahine and yells some unintelligible abuse.


Read that carefully again: the cyclist tore past the taxi but is "lucky the cabbie is quick on the brakes" (so now the cab is moving faster than the bike). Both can't be true.

MacDonald wrote:They've become one of the biggest scourges of city streets..blatantly refuse to wear a helmet


He highlights three issues "needing attention": not obeying traffic signals; not wearing helmets and riding on footpaths. It's beat up: two of those "evils" are not illegal in much of the world. And "idaho stop" laws were resolving the third (noting that actual "stops" were introduced due to MV users killing people) . Of course they asked for stories from people who'd had "a run-in with a cyclist".

Of course, the comedians (Magda 2009) and schlock jocks (Derryn 2013) picked up the meme and took it to its (il)logical conclusion a few years later.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

User avatar
find_bruce
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7699
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby find_bruce » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm

Something like this Colin ?
Image

User avatar
ColinOldnCranky
Posts: 6092
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: The danger from behind - better light

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:35 pm

Thoglette wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote: going back some thirty years ago drivers were friendly and obliging to cyclists.


I've been trying to track the "history of hating". It seems to have started (in the papers) somewhere in the mid noughties, with articles in the Herald Sun (Bruce MacDonald 2005-06-22) and SMH (Stephen Gibbs, but sourced from AAMI 2004-12-16) in my collection as the first overtly anti-cycling, logic-free and emotively charged rants. Prior to that I really only have pro-cycling articles in my collection.


I started noticing a change when cycle couriers became common and tribal. That gave plenty for the media to feast on but initally focused on cycle couriers rushing among pedestrians, kerb hopping and jumping lights.

Now cycle couriers are not the presence they used to be. But I guess that lazy journalists just shifted their attention a little so as to continue generating stories on a common theme which wrote themselves.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users