How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

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biker jk
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How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby biker jk » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:00 pm

Interesting article. 72% of motorists expecting cyclists to get out of their way might be the greatest barrier.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-14/curious-central-west-how-can-we-change-attitudes-toward-cyclists/9246170

g-boaf
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby g-boaf » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:26 pm

biker jk wrote:Interesting article. 72% of motorists expecting cyclists to get out of their way might be the greatest barrier.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-14/curious-central-west-how-can-we-change-attitudes-toward-cyclists/9246170


Someone says in the screenshot "Majority of roads aren't designed for cars and cyclists together".

Yeah, and over in Europe, the roads aren't designed for both and yet there is no problem at all. The problem is drivers in Australia who don't display the right level of maturity to even be behind the wheel.

Mountain passes do not have cycleways along side them, nor do they often have cycling lanes and nobody has any problems. And in many villages, the roads are so narrow that it is impossible to put cycling lanes or paths. The roads often run right up to the walls of buildings.

The other solution is to have big fat penalties for any car driver who passes a rider too closely. And make it very easy to enforce the penalties, or even have the onus on the driver to prove they are innocent, any make the standards high so they can't just make flimsy excuses.

I've suggested that before on here and "riders" have responded angrily. :roll:

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:56 pm

I rekon there is no hope in this. Generally motorists in Australia hate when people queue jump, cut others off or overtake them. Unfortunately it's human nature.

Motorist hate cyclists because they are simply faster and able to weave through thick traffic.

I's sort of like when you dwelve down into why people dislike ebikes. It's mostly because they are faster than a human powered bicycles. 'The amount of times I've heard people say I am 'cheating' - I'm just going to work lol.
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby gtext » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:50 pm

The media has a lot to answer I think stirring up the anti cyclists.
They continually over exaggerate cyclist actions and under exaggerate the motorists.
Yesterday for instance the incident and I don't agree with his action was where the cyclist threw the woman's car keys.
3aw who are an anti cyclist station talking to the her based their questions so as to side with motorist. Totally ignoring that she hadn't seen him. Didn't even her ask why. Seemed more intent on focusing on the kid in the car and her mother in hospital.
The radio TV and papers seem to make it headlines for the day anything that involves a cyclist but always in the negative.

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby fishwop » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:57 pm

Some motorists only respect vehicles that can hurt them, which isn't us.

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bychosis
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby bychosis » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:07 pm

I think it is possible, but it is going to take a long time - and high fuel prices.
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silentC
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby silentC » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:13 pm

The first thing that would have to happen is for the many myths surrounding the road rules to be dispelled. It is just staggering how many people think that bicycles are in breach of road rules by riding on the road, two abreast, etc etc. They think bicycles are required to pull off the road if a car approaches, that we don't have right of way at intersections. I have no idea how that would be achieved.

The next would be to abolish social media. Not kidding, it is responsible for the spreading of so much garbage it is literally changing society for the worst. And I say that as someone who derives a substantial portion of my income from it.
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby fishwop » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:16 pm

silentC wrote:The next would be to abolish social media.

Facebook is an absolute cesspit, no two ways about it.

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby Thoglette » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:19 pm

gtext wrote:The media has a lot to answer I think stirring up the anti cyclists.


Very much so. There plenty of evidence to suggest that MAMILs (in particular) became the default target group of "outsiders" for tub-thumpers once, well, everyone else became off limits. Recently queue-jumping-boatpeople and people-smugglers have taken some of the heat off us.

Those who've read the MHL thread will know that I believe that MHLs are a contributing factor to this problem, in at least three interrelating ways (the increased perception that cycling is dangerous & not a normal way to get around; the removal of utility-only cyclists; and the overall reduction of cycle trips).

fishwop wrote:Facebook is an absolute cesspit, no two ways about it.
The problem with Facebook and "social media" (from the letters column of the newspaper to the comments pages here) is that there's money in click-bait; there's money in circuses and there's no risk to the bottom line. Same with the shock-jocks. As long as they don't name an individual the worst they're going to get is chewed on by Media Watch.

I'm not aware of a successful libel or defamation case from a "class" vs an individual. Nor of any successful charge of "inciting..." against a group that's not a well funded religion or country.
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby Nate » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:06 pm

Put highly visible timers in every car.
When the car stops at lights & congestion - starts counting.
2nd one - when it detects a cyclist - starts counting.

see which one you wasted more time on & how much the cyclist actually held you up.

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby antigee » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:22 pm

Nate wrote:Put highly visible timers in every car.
When the car stops at lights & congestion - starts counting.
2nd one - when it detects a cyclist - starts counting.

see which one you wasted more time on & how much the cyclist actually held you up.


also how many times a car slows then is "dangerously forced" to cross a solid white line to pass vehicles waiting to or trying to park - lots of empathy with other drivers and parking, little empathy if the move is to safely pass a cyclist

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby bychosis » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:54 pm

antigee wrote:also how many times a car slows then is "dangerously forced" to cross a solid white line to pass vehicles waiting to or trying to park - lots of empathy with other drivers and parking, little empathy if the move is to safely pass a cyclist

1. But bikes are so fast it takes hundreds of metres to overtake them.
2. But bikes are so slow I could lose my job for being late because of them.
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby trailgumby » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:07 pm

fishwop wrote:
silentC wrote:The next would be to abolish social media.

Facebook is an absolute cesspit, no two ways about it.

I've just joined a 50yo+ Cyclists FB group in the last few weeks. Some pretty disgusting language used and contempt expressed by some users. Mostly from Americans, but that may be because they are the larger proportion of participants. Being used to this forum I was a bit shocked.

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby fat and old » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:01 pm

Thoglette wrote:
gtext wrote:The media has a lot to answer I think stirring up the anti cyclists.


Very much so. There plenty of evidence to suggest that MAMILs (in particular) became the default target group of "outsiders" for tub-thumpers once, well, everyone else became off limits.


They don''t really help themselves though, at times. Looking at that link, there's a short YT vid on the Hell Ride...comment by the maker

"This ride has some stigma around it because of some incidents in the past, including running red lights," Mr Christensen explained.

"We want to use this ride to break down some of these barriers and that is potentially a contentious way to do it but we think it could work quite well," he said.

He said the documentary was about showing "the humans behind the lycra" but it would be produced by an independent film maker and include many perspectives, including police and those who are opposed to the Hell Ride.


Have a look at it....non stop lycra taking over both lanes of the road. Sheer stupidity if acceptance is the goal (I personally don't care how much of the road they use....Beach Rd is a cess pit of moronity).

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby human909 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:33 pm

fat and old wrote:Have a look at it....non stop lycra taking over both lanes of the road. Sheer stupidity if acceptance is the goal (I personally don't care how much of the road they use....Beach Rd is a cess pit of moronity).

And how long did they wait to take that photograph?
Situation normal during peak hours on canning street too.
Situation normal for non stop motor vehicles to take over all lanes as well.

The problem is the entire outlook that cyclists are subservient on our roads.

(Not that I think The Hell ride are angels but there is fundamentally nothing wrong with bicycles using multiple lanes.)

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby fat and old » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:55 pm

human909 wrote:
fat and old wrote:Have a look at it....non stop lycra taking over both lanes of the road. Sheer stupidity if acceptance is the goal (I personally don't care how much of the road they use....Beach Rd is a cess pit of moronity).

And how long did they wait to take that photograph?
Situation normal during peak hours on canning street too.
Situation normal for non stop motor vehicles to take over all lanes as well.

The problem is the entire outlook that cyclists are subservient on our roads.

(Not that I think The Hell ride are angels but there is fundamentally nothing wrong with bicycles using multiple lanes.)


No, there isn't anything fundamentally flawed with any type of vehicle using all of the available road space, one, two or three lanes. I personally think that excluding trucks from the "fast" lane on freeways, the allocation of express lanes for taxis and hire cars on the Tulla Fwy to the airport and T2 type lanes where there must be multiple occupants in a vehicle to be unfair and pandering to vocal minorities.

:roll: :lol:

There's a world of difference between Canning St and Beach Rd Human. As there is a world of difference between the users. For starters, Canning St riders are not trying to convince other road users of their innocent intentions. But you know this already. :)

BTW, what photo? I was referring to the vid? "Non-stop"?

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby Mububban » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:19 pm

Calvin27 wrote:Motorist hate cyclists because they are simply faster and able to weave through thick traffic.

I's sort of like when you dwelve down into why people dislike ebikes. It's mostly because they are faster than a human powered bicycles. 'The amount of times I've heard people say I am 'cheating' - I'm just going to work lol.


I think lots of people underestimate the simple effect of jealousy when drivers are stuck in traffic. Drivers also hate motorbike riders who are able to drive between cars. Seeing anyone on two wheels zipping past them while they're stuck with no chance to move makes the blood boil apparently.

And I agree 100% with the people who hate ebikes and call them cheating - who or what are they cheating?!?!? I used one to commute and I'd still arrive at work hot and sweaty and with the heart pumping. I'd pass plenty of riders, and I'd get passed by plenty of riders too.
Now I'm on a road bike, whenever an ebike cruises past me, even I get a tiny bit of that neanderthal "bloody ebikes!" thought before I slap myself for being an idiot :D
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby bychosis » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:43 pm

E-bikes are just an extra challenge for CCR (Commuter Cup Racing). Very satisfying. To be able to pass one, and call the motor illegal/overpowered if you can’t.
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby human909 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:15 pm

Mububban wrote:I think lots of people underestimate the simple effect of jealousy when drivers are stuck in traffic.

This.

I can't help but feel jealous if I'm stuck in traffic in my car and see cyclists whizzing past! I generally try to avoid driving in traffic but it occasionally does occur.

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby trailgumby » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:46 pm

human909 wrote:
Mububban wrote:I think lots of people underestimate the simple effect of jealousy when drivers are stuck in traffic.

This.

Add to this the fact we don't pay rego and it tips many right over the edge.

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby eldavo » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:03 am

trailgumby wrote:
human909 wrote:
Mububban wrote:I think lots of people underestimate the simple effect of jealousy when drivers are stuck in traffic.

This.

Add to this the fact we don't pay rego and it tips many right over the edge.


He'd pass heaps more if he didn't camp at all those red lights.


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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby queequeg » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:31 am

trailgumby wrote:
human909 wrote:
Mububban wrote:I think lots of people underestimate the simple effect of jealousy when drivers are stuck in traffic.

This.

Add to this the fact we don't pay rego and it tips many right over the edge.


...and of Gladys gets her way, motorists in Sydney won't be paying rego anymore either, so we can happily yell at motorists "to get off the road!"
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby BJL » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:57 am

trailgumby wrote:Add to this the fact we don't pay rego and it tips many right over the edge.


Wouldn't make any difference. When we are finally forced to pay rego (And I believe it will happen knowing Straya! They'll probably have a plebiscite and then blame cyclists for the cost of it all, lol), motorists will then say 'but rego doesn't 'pay' for the roads. Fuel excise does'. And they'll continue to hate us and nothing will change.

Sorry, there's no changing improving attitudes towards cyclists in this country. Motorists need to be forced to share the roads in a safe and reasonable manner. I don't care how it's done. Actually enforce the law for a change and introduce floggings for traffic infringements. Ten lashes for a 'punishment pass'. Let's start with AWDXTC from The Dandenongs a few weeks ago. He'll still hate us, but he won't do it again.

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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby Calvin27 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:27 am

Mububban wrote:I think lots of people underestimate the simple effect of jealousy when drivers are stuck in traffic.


Pretty much the foundation of rego argument right there.
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Re: How we can change attitudes to cyclists?

Postby AdelaidePeter » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:26 pm

I don't buy the jealousy argument. I think the reasons are (1) cyclists are perceived as more likely to break road rules, and (2) cyclists "get in the way" and slow traffic, especially on narrow / hilly / country roads. Go to any forum and you'll see variants of those two arguments over and over. (I don't think I've ever seen a post like "I don't like cyclists because they get through traffic faster than me").

I think cyclists can do their part to try to negate these two points. A couple of key road rules which cyclists break more - stopping on red lights and don't go on the wrong side of the road - are very visible ones. Yes I know it's only a minority, and yes I know it's less dangerous than cars speeding or texting while driving, but still: cyclists would have a lot better image if less cyclists broke these rules.

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